CC permits and OTH discharges

[slidell jim]

Anyone out there familiar with OTH discharges and CC permits? I am looking into what states, that are otherwise "shall issue" states, would have a problem with an OTH discharge. I am hoping someone or somewhere has a consolidated list of states that have a restriction against issuing CC permit to a citizen with a OTH in their history. I am hoping to avoid doing the tedious research on each State's laws books, times 50 states.

States I have already researched
LA = will not issue for BCD, DD, or OTH
FL = will not issue for BCD, DD; will issue for OTH
MS = does not mention and military discharge; but references "Is not disqualified to possess or own a weapon based on federal law", which covers BCD and DD
TX = will only issue if "(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged from the United States armed force"

 

[kn1080]

are you actually required to say that you served in the armed forces?

 

[slidell jim]

On the LA and the FL application they do ask that question.

In FL they ask have you ever been discharged from military with a BCD or DD? YES or NO


In LA they ask (quote straight from the application)
1. Have you ever served in the Armed Forces of the United States?
2. Are you currently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States?
3. If Discharged indicate the type of discharge. ________________________ Note: You must
Provide Proof of Discharge. For example Department of Defense Form-214 (DD-214).

The LA law states 40:1379.3 C (15) Not have been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States with a discharge characterized as "Under Other than Honorable Conditions", a "Bad Conduct Discharge", or a "Dishonorable Discharge".

 

[kn1080]

On the LA and the FL application they do ask that question.

In FL they ask have you ever been discharged from military with a BCD or DD? YES or NO


In LA they ask (quote straight from the application)
1. Have you ever served in the Armed Forces of the United States?
2. Are you currently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States?
3. If Discharged indicate the type of discharge. ________________________ Note: You must
Provide Proof of Discharge. For example Department of Defense Form-214 (DD-214).

The LA law states 40:1379.3 C (15) Not have been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States with a discharge characterized as "Under Other than Honorable Conditions", a "Bad Conduct Discharge", or a "Dishonorable Discharge".

even though they ask... I wonder if your actually required by law to answer it.

 

[festus]

It will flag in the background check

even though they ask... I wonder if your actually required by law to answer it.

It will flag in the background check...then you are in trouble for falsifying an official document...Danged if you do Danged if you dont. BTW you have to goof up pretty bad and be convicted militarily of a crime that normally carries a minimum 1 yr hard time penalty to get a LTH or DD

 

[Red Hat]

It would all depend on the type of discharge. If someone receives an OTH discharge you may or may not have been convicted for something so you may have a chance in getting a permit. If someone receives a BCD or a dishonorable discharge then they have received either a Special or General court-martial for BCD or a general court-martial for a DD. If someone gets either a BCD or DD then they would be a convicted felon.

 

[theicemanmpls]

It would all depend on the type of discharge. If someone receives an OTH discharge you may or may not have been convicted for something so you may have a chance in getting a permit. If someone receives a BCD or a dishonorable discharge then they have received either a Special or General court-martial for BCD or a general court-martial for a DD. If someone gets either a BCD or DD then they would be a convicted felon.

Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. OTH Discharges are warranted when the reason for separation is based upon a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services, or when the reason for separation is based upon one or more acts or omissions that constitute a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services. Examples of factors that may be considered include the use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death, abuse of a special position of trust, disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships, acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services, and deliberate acts or omissions that seriously endanger the health and safety of other persons.

Military Justice 101 - Part 3, Enlisted Administrative Separations

 

[slidell jim]

you have to goof up pretty bad and be convicted militarily of a crime that normally carries a minimum 1 yr hard time penalty to get a LTH or DD

This isn't completely true. A LTH or OTH (i think these are the same) can be from many things that do not carry time. You could be divorced for adultery, sued in civilian court, habitual gambler or drinker, ect.

Now the BCD and the DD are mostly given to a member that has done time in civilian or military prison for a felony conviction in civilian or military court. ie. assault, murder, desertion, sabotage, ect.


For example, one guy a found got an OTH discharge for "conduct not becoming a service member", he got sued in civilian court for damages to a room-mates car and lost the law suit. His "crime" was not rolling up the windows on the car, it rained in the car & ruined the upholstery, then the guy wouldn't work with his roommate to fix the car, so he got sued. So that guy has a OTH on his record for the rest of his life. And an OTH discharge means no CC permit in many states, regardless of the "conviction" circumstances.

 

[slidell jim]

But BACK to the OP.

Anyone know rules in other states to save me some time in research? I'm looking for states with restrictions against issuing permit for OTH discharge alone and regardless of the circumstances surrounding the discharge. Louisiana is one of these states, and just changed their laws on honoring out of state permits for residents.

 

[TooCalm]

NC will not issue a ccw for anything other than a honorable discharge. They also will not issue because of mental illness or heavy drinking. So if you drink or have been diagnosed with PTSD, your Screwed. Your 2nd amendment rights are no longer worth wiping your ass with.

 

[Ed Hamberger]

NC will not issue a ccw for anything other than a honorable discharge. They also will not issue because of mental illness or heavy drinking. So if you drink or have been diagnosed with PTSD, your Screwed. Your 2nd amendment rights are no longer worth wiping your ass with.

That is exactly right "TooCalm", I remember both of those questions on my CCW Application when I applied for mine, of course, neither applied to me and I was issued my permit 10 working days later. :yu:

 

[mullet]

Let\'s not forget the issues with discharges under the \"Don\'t ask, don\'t tell, don\'t pursue\" policy. Run afoul with this misnamed policy and a court martial may be in your future. This policy is also misused in a blatantly sexist discriminatory manor against women in the services. Apparently a common tactic taken by some lesser men is to use the DADT policy to retaliate against women who deny their sexual advances, file sexual harassment claims, or assist in other sexual harassment investigations.

So if a woman runs afoul with the DADT policy because she filed a sexual harassment claim and gets kicked out of the military, we should further violate her by denying her her second amendment rights?!? :angry:

(Please note the deliberate double entendre in the use of the word violate.)

I was under the impression that people who were caught or confessed being lesbians or homosexuals received a LTH.
Are you saying G50 that the don\'t ask don\'t tell is used as a weapon against women who turn down advances from men? It wouldnt suprise me in the least.
IMHO there should be no policy against gays in the military. I am secure enough in my sexuality to say so. I do not fear gays. Gays don\'t recruit. They do not have to. Our military will not fall apart.

 

[AirbornePB]

I do not really see this as being an issue, military law is a lot fairer than civilian law. You really have to screw up not to get an honorable, OTH is a six month wait and you can get it changed to an honorable.

 

[mrjam2jab]

I see where PA has the question:

HAVE YOU EVER RECEIVED A DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE FROM THE UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES?

But I don't see where an OTH discharge is a prohibition.

 

[slidell jim]

I see where PA has the question:



But I don't see where an OTH discharge is a prohibition.

It is in Louisiana. And apparently in NC.


I have gotten around to filling out the DD-293, Review of Discharge, to send in to the Naval Review Board. See if I can get an upgrade to General Discharge. I will post the results when I hear back from them. In the meantime I can still CC here in LA with my FL non-res permit until August 2011.

 

[Oldgrunt]

In Montgomery County, Alabama, the application for a CCW license does not ask about military service. The application will be checked by the MCSO and MPD. Unless something comes up in the applicant':biggrin:s background, there shouldn't be any problems. As far as I know, there is no mention of character of military discharges in our laws. "Theicemanmpls" gave a fine thumbnail sketch of ther rules of enlisted separations from the services. Some people seem to think that the character of one's discharge is a small matter. WRONG! I spent over 23 years in the service and never saw any type of separation, other than honorable, given out lightly. Generally, one had to screw up pretty bad to receive anything other than an honorable rating. I can't feel sorry for anyone who received an OTH discharge. They should do some soul searching and own up to their indescretions. That said, however, I don't think that should preclude a CCW in all cases.

 

[slidell jim]

That said, however, I don't think that [OTH discharge] should preclude a CCW in all cases.

It does in Louisiana. anythingbesides honorable or general is an automatic denial of CCW permit.

 

[pildnera]

what about Ohio does anyone know about if they will issue a ccw to someone with a bad conduct discharge

 

[mrjam2jab]

I see where PA has the question:



But I don't see where an OTH discharge is a prohibition.

Wow...forgot about this post....found it for PA:

18 PA CS ss6109 (e)(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.

 

[The Realist]

I do not really see this as being an issue, military law is a lot fairer than civilian law. You really have to screw up not to get an honorable, OTH is a six month wait and you can get it changed to an honorable.

Not so fast there! "A six month wait and it turns Honorable" is flat out BS.
To change the nature of a discharge you have to appeal to your services board for correction of records. You must state why you think the discharge was unjust. (Such as unduly harsh for the nature of the offense commuted.) Then the service board does their investigation to determine what they will do.

I personally know of one where the "kid" said the hell with it let me out.
He applied for an upgrade ans was told basically "you didn't fight it the first time, you must have thought it was what you deserved." So he gets no change to his discharge EVER!!!

So back on topic if your Discharge wont allow you to get a permit you can always petition your services review board to attempt to get it changed. Then you may be able to get your permit.