Carrying passing by a school?

[Stephen Loukanis]

Question concealed carry in Wisconsin. I know I can’t carry with in a 1000ft of a school unless I live close to it.
What if I am driving by a school and get pulled over and I have my gun concealed on me. Could I be charged? For just passing by a school or am I off base all to gather.

 

[walt629]

Question concealed carry in Wisconsin. I know I can’t carry with in a 1000ft of a school unless I live close to it.
What if I am driving by a school and get pulled over and I have my gun concealed on me. Could I be charged? For just passing by a school or am I off base all to gather.

It depends on your state (not listed on your headed or in the OP) and the local ordinances regarding such matters.

I hate to quote any generalizations about school zones since the "school safety zone" laws are so widely varied and so readily misused by LE. It's best to check your local laws.

Try this on for size. Index of /states

Good luck.

 

[Stephen Loukanis]

Very helpful Thank you
948.605(2)
(2) Possession of Firearm In School Zone.
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony.
(b) 1r. A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r.
“School” is defined as “a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001(15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.”

 

[walt629]

Geez... I guess you did mention Wisconsin, didn't you? :blink:

 

[rj53081]

Question concealed carry in Wisconsin. I know I can’t carry with in a 1000ft of a school unless I live close to it.
What if I am driving by a school and get pulled over and I have my gun concealed on me. Could I be charged? For just passing by a school or am I off base all to gather.

If you read the phamlet that came with the wisconsin ccw permit. it does say that you can carry within a 1000ft of a school just not on the school grounds

 

[jerkos]

A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r.

 

[JCliff]

A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r.

.
Careful, careful, careful. That is NOT the view or interpretation of the federal Gun Free School Zones Act (18 USC 922) taken by the BATFE with respect to out-of-state permits. The fed interpretation:
.
“The law clearly provides that in order to qualify as an
exception to the general prohibitions of the Gun-Free
School Zones Act, the license must be issued by the State
in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of that State. A concealed weapons license or
permit from any other State would not satisfy the criteria
set forth in the law.”
.
See Index of /states. Look up on BATFE informational links.
.
I have spoken with some local LEOs here in Wisconsin and state LEOs in Michigan, and they all said that they would not arrest an out-of-stater with a permit recognized by their state for being within 1000’ of a school with a firearm. But one mentioned that if there is suspicion that you have violated a federal law, you could be held for arrest by a federal agent, subsequently to be prosecuted by a federal attorney for felony violation of the GFSZA. As far as the feds are concerned, your permit, if it is not issued by the state in which the school is located, does not give you immunity from the 1000’ rule. I challenge you to cross any urban or suburban region without coming within 1000’ of a public or private school. Word to the wise. Legally, you are on very thin ice carrying your firearm out of state unless you have a permit issued by the state you’re in, or you fall under LEOSA.

 

[jerkos]

That was copied straight from the Wis. Stat., but you're right. When it comes to the Fed. screw you. Caution, caution, caution.
Thanks,JCliff.

 

[JCliff]

That was copied straight from the Wis. Stat., but you're right. When it comes to the Fed. screw you. Caution, caution, caution.
Thanks,JCliff.

.
You are correct, in that you would not be in violation of any Wisconsin state law by carrying a firearm within 1000’ of a school on a permit issued by another state recognized by the state of Wisconsin. But you would not be in compliance with the federal law, and its violation is a felony. There are many city police chiefs (appointed, not elected…Milwaukee comes to mind) who are stridently anti-2A. Couple that with a few liberal (appointed) federal prosecutors trying to make a name for themselves and it’s not difficult to envision the scenario whereby you find yourself in some really deep poop. Having said all this, I am not aware of any prosecutions anywhere on this exact issue. I personally do not wish to be the test case.
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Prior to Newtown there was a movement to correct this legislative misstep with respect to out-of-state permit reciprocity in the federal GFSZA that was gaining political traction. I strongly suspect it is unlikely that it will be fixed anytime soon now, if ever. The whole GFSZA law is yet another example of bad legislation, which accomplished nothing in terms of safety to the community, which only represents a threat to the law-abiding citizen who mistakenly and innocently runs afoul of it.
.
I’m not a lawyer…but if you travel a lot I would try and obtain non-resident licenses for the states you travel in if they are available. The way I read it, if I have a Utah non-resident permit, I’m OK with respect to the GFSZA law while I’m in Utah. Permit reciprocity just is not recognized by the federal GFSZA. If you are traveling armed on the fact that your permit is recognized by the state you’re traveling in, understand that you are not in compliance with federal law anytime you come inside that 1000’ bubble. Good luck avoiding all those. That will happen even when you’re driving down the interstate.

 

[tricolordad]

A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r.

Not entirely true. If driving a vehicle, the vehicle is private property and you may store an unloaded, cased firearm in the vehicle while on school grounds.

 

[dangerzoneracing]

If walking Pass a school it is OKAY as long as that is not your FINAL Stop.... However Driving a car it is Legal due to the fact that the car is Private Property

 

[wolf_fire]

.
Careful, careful, careful. That is NOT the view or interpretation of the federal Gun Free School Zones Act (18 USC 922) taken by the BATFE with respect to out-of-state permits. The fed interpretation:
.
“The law clearly provides that in order to qualify as an
exception to the general prohibitions of the Gun-Free
School Zones Act, the license must be issued by the State
in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of that State. A concealed weapons license or
permit from any other State would not satisfy the criteria
set forth in the law.”
.
See Index of /states. Look up on BATFE informational links.
.
I have spoken with some local LEOs here in Wisconsin and state LEOs in Michigan, and they all said that they would not arrest an out-of-stater with a permit recognized by their state for being within 1000’ of a school with a firearm. But one mentioned that if there is suspicion that you have violated a federal law, you could be held for arrest by a federal agent, subsequently to be prosecuted by a federal attorney for felony violation of the GFSZA. As far as the feds are concerned, your permit, if it is not issued by the state in which the school is located, does not give you immunity from the 1000’ rule. I challenge you to cross any urban or suburban region without coming within 1000’ of a public or private school. Word to the wise. Legally, you are on very thin ice carrying your firearm out of state unless you have a permit issued by the state you’re in, or you fall under LEOSA.

True, but when were you last pulled over by a Federal agent? Has anyone at anytime on these forums been pulled over by a Federal agent? Since most LEO's, if you are possessing a valid permit/license even if out of state won't enforce this, there isn't much danger, but yes, if someone wanted to enforce it, you have broken the Federal statute.

 

[JCliff]

True, but when were you last pulled over by a Federal agent? Has anyone at anytime on these forums been pulled over by a Federal agent? Since most LEO's, if you are possessing a valid permit/license even if out of state won't enforce this, there isn't much danger, but yes, if someone wanted to enforce it, you have broken the Federal statute.

.
Very few people are ever "pulled over" by a Fed. They don't have to be. Local & state police can and do make arrests based on federal charges all the time (there is usually a state violation to go with the arrest as well). They don't have to wait for the FBI or BATFE to make an arrest in say, a kidnapping or bank robbery, etc. The feds frequently only take over for the prosecution. Anyway, my point, which I made in a follow-on post, is if you are somewhere there is an anti-gun administration and anti-gun police chief, with your out-of-state permit, be very careful. They'd be all too happy to nail you on this.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It's important that people know what the law is, so they can decide if they want to ignore it based upon the chances of it being enforced or not. BTW, carrying inside a motor vehicle by a person without a permit/license is not exempt from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Law" because it is private property. That information is false. This is the specific exemption in the Federal law for transporting firearms in motor vehicles:

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

 

[wolf_fire]

.
Very few people are ever "pulled over" by a Fed. They don't have to be. Local & state police can and do make arrests based on federal charges all the time (there is usually a state violation to go with the arrest as well). They don't have to wait for the FBI or BATFE to make an arrest in say, a kidnapping or bank robbery, etc. The feds frequently only take over for the prosecution. Anyway, my point, which I made in a follow-on post, is if you are somewhere there is an anti-gun administration and anti-gun police chief, with your out-of-state permit, be very careful. They'd be all too happy to nail you on this.

Did you read my whole post? Your first two sentences suggest you didn't.

Yes, in my post I stated local LEO's can enforce this. The only difference between what you and I said is you have stated LEO's enforce this "all the time", where I said if you are in possession of a valid permit/license most LEO's do not enforce it. Sure they can, but I said that too.

So it sounds like your argument is whether LEO's enforce this "all the time" or "not so much". In my experience as a traveling citizen, as a Reserve Deputy with our Sheriff's department, and communicating with many other police departments, this doesn't get enforced very often.

 

[JCliff]

Did you read my whole post? Your first two sentences suggest you didn't.

Yes, in my post I stated local LEO's can enforce this. The only difference between what you and I said is you have stated LEO's enforce this "all the time", where I said if you are in possession of a valid permit/license most LEO's do not enforce it. Sure they can, but I said that too.

So it sounds like your argument is whether LEO's enforce this "all the time" or "not so much". In my experience as a traveling citizen, as a Reserve Deputy with our Sheriff's department, and communicating with many other police departments, this doesn't get enforced very often.

.
Reread my post again carefully. I did not say state and local police enforce the federal GFZ act all the time. I said they can and do make arrests based on federal charges all the time. It doesn't require a federal officer. My own experience is the same as yours. I am not aware of anyone who has been snagged by this. As I related earlier, various officers from around my state and in several surrounding states have indicated they would not make an arrest based on this alone. My main point is, they could. I would recommend a high degree of caution carrying on an out-of-state permit in, say, Milwaukee, where both the mayor and police chief are rabidly anti-gun. Unfortunately there are all too many other places around the country like that. And if you're transiting a "must-notify" state, and are in or went through that 1000 foot buffer around a school when pulled over for a routine traffic stop, you're admitting to what could be a felony federal charge as soon as you produce your out-of-state permit with a firearm on your person. So again, all I'm saying is be aware and be careful carrying on an out-of-state permit. It's not the same as carrying in your home state, and the specific wording of the federal GFSZ act is just one of the differences.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Of course in NC I can have my handgun (no long guns) in a closed compartment in my locked vehicle on any public school campus, college or university, totally counter to the unenforceable federal law.

 

[wolf_fire]

.
Reread my post again carefully. I did not say state and local police enforce the federal GFZ act all the time. I said they can and do make arrests based on federal charges all the time. It doesn't require a federal officer. My own experience is the same as yours. I am not aware of anyone who has been snagged by this. As I related earlier, various officers from around my state and in several surrounding states have indicated they would not make an arrest based on this alone. My main point is, they could. I would recommend a high degree of caution carrying on an out-of-state permit in, say, Milwaukee, where both the mayor and police chief are rabidly anti-gun. Unfortunately there are all too many other places around the country like that. And if you're transiting a "must-notify" state, and are in or went through that 1000 foot buffer around a school when pulled over for a routine traffic stop, you're admitting to what could be a felony federal charge as soon as you produce your out-of-state permit with a firearm on your person. So again, all I'm saying is be aware and be careful carrying on an out-of-state permit. It's not the same as carrying in your home state, and the specific wording of the federal GFSZ act is just one of the differences.

My mistake. I did misinterpret your words. Sorry for any perceived rudeness.

 

[ezkl2230]

.
Careful, careful, careful. That is NOT the view or interpretation of the federal Gun Free School Zones Act (18 USC 922) taken by the BATFE with respect to out-of-state permits. The fed interpretation:
.
“The law clearly provides that in order to qualify as an
exception to the general prohibitions of the Gun-Free
School Zones Act, the license must be issued by the State
in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of that State. A concealed weapons license or
permit from any other State would not satisfy the criteria
set forth in the law.”
.
See Index of /states. Look up on BATFE informational links.
.
I have spoken with some local LEOs here in Wisconsin and state LEOs in Michigan, and they all said that they would not arrest an out-of-stater with a permit recognized by their state for being within 1000’ of a school with a firearm. But one mentioned that if there is suspicion that you have violated a federal law, you could be held for arrest by a federal agent, subsequently to be prosecuted by a federal attorney for felony violation of the GFSZA. As far as the feds are concerned, your permit, if it is not issued by the state in which the school is located, does not give you immunity from the 1000’ rule. I challenge you to cross any urban or suburban region without coming within 1000’ of a public or private school. Word to the wise. Legally, you are on very thin ice carrying your firearm out of state unless you have a permit issued by the state you’re in, or you fall under LEOSA.

Even LEOSA has its limitations. In Michigan, for example, while it is legal for a CPL holder to carry openly on the grounds of a school, concealed carry on school grounds is not permitted unless you are doing so in your vehicle while picking up or dropping off your child. According to LEOSA, § 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers,

(a)

Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
​

(b)

This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
​

(1)

permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or​

(2)

prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.​

So under LEOSA, a retired officer cannot carry concealed on school property, but they CAN carry openly, just as anyone possessing a CPL in Michigan can do. Michigan law stipulates that an officer is exempt from Michigan's concealed carry law only if they possess the full authority of a peace officer and are regularly paid to act in that capacity (MI AG Opinion 7113, Opinion #7113), neither of which apply to retired officers. Otherwise, they must carry openly like everyone else.