Carrying at work with target and hunting permit in ny?

[Zeaken]

As many of you know NY is a mess when it comes to getting a handgun permit. I have been waiting about 9 months now for my pistol permit and finally I am in the last leg of the process and should have my permit in about two more months. However, I live in erie county and the judge only issues target and hunting permits to start, period.

I have been trying to read up on the law but it is confusing and conflicting even at times as ny doesnt have "target and hunting" permit.

From my understanding of the law with a target and hunting permit I can carry to and from a gun range/where i am legally shooting and I can carry it on my property. We also have a family business I would like to be able to carry at while on the premise but I am unsure If I can legally do this? Can anyone help me clarify? I know my local gun shop goes so far to even be open carrying while in the building but I have no idea if they have ccws or if its related to the fact that its a gun shop. I want to exercise what rights to carry where I can but I also don't want to be bending or outright breaking any laws which could result of loss of my permit.

 

[thedub88]

you said it yourself "for target and hunting, period." If your not doing one of those 2 things your in violation of the law. If you could carry with it, they wouldn't have licences with restrictions

 

[Zeaken]

But you can use a "target and hunting" permit to carry concealed to and from hunting and target and you can even make stops along the way. NY as a state only has one kind of pistol permit and thats concealed carry but certain counties (like mine) issue restrictions which you can not be charged with a crime with if you violate but you can have your permit suspended by the judge who issued them. (skirting the whole nyc thing which is basically its own state).

So if you have a hunting and target permit you can have it on your person at your property of your residence but you can't have it at your privately owned business? If you own the lot on which the business sits does that make a diffrence?

So its a ccw that allows you to open carry at a private business or does that have to do with it being a gun shop?

Sorry for 20 questions but I am just trying to make sense of it all.

 

[nogods]

There is no "open carry" allowed in public in NYS.

However, if you have a permit under sections 400.00.2 (a) or (b) ["(a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder" or "(b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;"] then you can open carry in your home or on your place of business. But if you have only a "concealed carry" pistol permit under section 400.00(2)(f) ["(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;"] then you can't carry openly on your business premises or, technically, even in your home.

Of course, the open carry in your home is irrelevant as a practical matter, but if you made a regular habit of displaying you weapon on your hip while cutting your front lawn a neighbor who complained of it might cause you to get a visit from local law enforcement officer suggesting you conceal the weapon while outside.

If you have the paragraph (f) conceal carry permit, then you can carry conceal on your business premises but you can't open carry on those business premises.

You are correct that the target/hunting restriction is merely administrative. But let's say you decided to ignore it and regularly carried concealed on your business premises. One day, while alone on the premises a thug comes in and engages in behavior that cause you to reasonably fear for your life under circumstances that you reasonably believe offer no safe escape.

So you shoot and kill the scum.

Now the DA has to review the case and decide whether he believes your depiction of the circumstances, or instead believes that you were too quick on the draw. One factor he is going to take into account is that you were consciously and regularly violating the administrative restrictions on your license. Perhaps he'll think that's an indication you are a bit of a cowboy and decide he needs to submit the matter to the grand jury. Perhaps the grand jurors will think the same and decide to indict you.

 

[cgiven1]

There is no "open carry" allowed in public in NYS.

However, if you have a permit under sections 400.00.2 (a) or (b) ["(a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder" or "(b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;"] then you can open carry in your home or on your place of business. But if you have only a "concealed carry" pistol permit under section 400.00(2)(f) ["(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;"] then you can't carry openly on your business premises or, technically, even in your home.

Of course, the open carry in your home is irrelevant as a practical matter, but if you made a regular habit of displaying you weapon on your hip while cutting your front lawn a neighbor who complained of it might cause you to get a visit from local law enforcement officer suggesting you conceal the weapon while outside.

If you have the paragraph (f) conceal carry permit, then you can carry conceal on your business premises but you can't open carry on those business premises.

You are correct that the target/hunting restriction is merely administrative. But let's say you decided to ignore it and regularly carried concealed on your business premises. One day, while alone on the premises a thug comes in and engages in behavior that cause you to reasonably fear for your life under circumstances that you reasonably believe offer no safe escape.

So you shoot and kill the scum.

Now the DA has to review the case and decide whether he believes your depiction of the circumstances, or instead believes that you were too quick on the draw. One factor he is going to take into account is that you were consciously and regularly violating the administrative restrictions on your license. Perhaps he'll think that's an indication you are a bit of a cowboy and decide he needs to submit the matter to the grand jury. Perhaps the grand jurors will think the same and decide to indict you.

On the bright side, you would still be alive. I lived in St. Lawrence and Monroe counties when I lived in NY. Fortunately, they didn't put restrictions on it. Of course you could always move out of Erie county.

 

[BC1]

Now the DA has to review the case and decide whether he believes your depiction of the circumstances, or instead believes that you were too quick on the draw. One factor he is going to take into account is that you were consciously and regularly violating the administrative restrictions on your license. Perhaps he'll think that's an indication you are a bit of a cowboy and decide he needs to submit the matter to the grand jury. Perhaps the grand jurors will think the same and decide to indict you.

Exactly, and many times the DA will send it to the grand jury to avoid being painted as pro-gun. Yesterday, in Middletown, NY, a nutjob opened fire in the municipal court and was killed by court officers. The DA is now investigating and has not ruled out turning the case over to a grand jury to decide if anyone should be indicted.

Regarding your situation, you should file an amendment to your permit requesting carry for business purposes. It's a $3 amendment and takes about a week. PM me and I'll provide you the correct letter for removing the restrictions.

 

[vangg23]

Just make life easier. Move on down to PA.

 

[Zeaken]

At the very least I want to finish out this process before considering if its worth my effort to be in another county like niagara.

Thats a good point for consideration on how the DA might perceive it if a bad situation ever came to that (hopefully it never will). I didn't have any intentions to carry open on my property because I know my neighbors certaintly wouldn't take kindly to it. The different kinds of permit make sense. I will have to pay close attention to how mine is issued. I have no intentions of breaking the restriction if it is placed upon me and will wait some time take some courses and see if I can offer up good enough reason for Erie county to remove it in a year or so If I have not moved out of the county by then.

 

[BC1]

Just make life easier. Move on down to PA.

PA is not really any better. We have cases on file whereby a sheriff revoked permits purely on heresay and complaints that a person was unfit. In one case it was a law-abiding soccer mom who was carrying within the law. Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom sues sheriff | NJ.com

The point is not that PA is bad but that it's no different from any other state. None are actually "shall issue." All have provisions under the law to prohibit carry or possession of any kind. Renewal requirements and restrictions on places like restaurants or bars is still gun-control.