Carry a photocopy of permit instead of original?


Sachssci

New member
Trying to decide if carrying a copy would be okay. I carry when I run in the forest and don't carry my full wallet. Big hassle to keep removing/replacing my permit due to how it fits in wallet. Besides, if carrying a good color copy is okay, I can have several duplicates in alternate wallets, running pack, off-body cases, etc. Police told me the law was "moot" (probably meant "mute") on this issue. Your thoughts?
 

Paul_of_TX

New member
I would think you would run into problems trying to get away with a copy of your license or any other required document. You could try having a digital copy available online so it can be accessed anywhere from the internet. Everyone knows digital images are impossible to alter and if that is good enough to be the President of the U.S.A. then it should fulfill any requirements of us little people also.
 

apvbguy

New member
Trying to decide if carrying a copy would be okay. I carry when I run in the forest and don't carry my full wallet. Big hassle to keep removing/replacing my permit due to how it fits in wallet. Besides, if carrying a good color copy is okay, I can have several duplicates in alternate wallets, running pack, off-body cases, etc. Police told me the law was "moot" (probably meant "mute") on this issue. Your thoughts?

there is no decision, duplicates will not work, in addition never rely on cops for interpretations of the law.
 

Paul_of_TX

New member
Cops see you as guilty. They don't necessarily know what you are guilty of but they know you are guilty of something. Carrying around a copy of an official document just screams to them that you have something to hide. They will want to know why you have a fake document and probably any answer you give will not be sufficient. Include this with you being an armed citizen and you are just asking for lots of trouble and lots of time taken away from you. You might come out of it without any charges or fines but it will most likely take lots of your time. The possible scenarios to get yourself in trouble vs the small hassle to remove your permit from your wallet just seems like an easy decision to me.
 

apvbguy

New member
Cops see you as guilty. They don't necessarily know what you are guilty of but they know you are guilty of something. Carrying around a copy of an official document just screams to them that you have something to hide. They will want to know why you have a fake document and probably any answer you give will not be sufficient. Include this with you being an armed citizen and you are just asking for lots of trouble and lots of time taken away from you. You might come out of it without any charges or fines but it will most likely take lots of your time. The possible scenarios to get yourself in trouble vs the small hassle to remove your permit from your wallet just seems like an easy decision to me.
what you've said isn't wrong but in some states the law specifically states that if you are carrying concealed the permit must be on your person.
 

PC1

New member
Maine is good in that it prevents people from being charged just because they forgot to have their CCW permit on their person. You can show your permit in your court appearance or to the LEO (the latter within 24 hours of your court appearance).

Here's the relevant paragraph from the state's CCW handbook:

Link Removed

11. Permit to be in permit holder's immediate possession. Every permit holder
shall have his [or her] permit in his [or her] immediate possession at all times when
carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the same on demand of any law
enforcement officer. No person charged with violating this subsection may be adjudicated
as having committed a civil violation if [the person] produces in court the concealed
firearms permit which was valid at the time of the issuance of a summons to court or, if
[the person] exhibits the permit to a law enforcement officer designated by the
summonsing officer not later than 24 hours before the time set for the court appearance,
no complaint may be issued.


I would like to see all states follow Maine's example, since there's simply no reason to waste the state's or the individual's time if the permit is produced later. I also like that one doesn't have to show the permit except on request of a LEO.

Having a photocopy might deter some LEOs from arresting you but who would want to take that chance? Having to hire a lawyer and going through all the cost, and stress of even a single court appearance doesn't sound like a good way to spend time or money.
 
Check your state law regarding issuance of a duplicate permit. For $10 or so you can have two valid permits..... Nix the idea of using a photocopy. If you were a storeowner accepting a check from someone you didn't know, would you accept a photocopy of a person's ID? I wouldn't ...
 

desertrat12

New member
Check your state law regarding issuance of a duplicate permit. For $10 or so you can have two valid permits..... Nix the idea of using a photocopy. Emphasis added
Check the specific statutes that state how, when and where the permit must be carried, they may address the question. Barring that, check the lateral Administrative Codes to the Statutes, if that fails ask your training facility personnel, and if all else fails, check with your county's Chief LEO- the Sheriff. If he's not CCW friendly, the State Attorney General is the last stop in that food chain.

Most states prohibit having more than 1 valid permit, there are probably exceptions, but far & few between. Your best bet is probably a neck raid ID case for CCW permit, Drivers License, work ID, and other 'must have' 24/7 IDs.
 
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BigSlick

New member
Check your state law regarding issuance of a duplicate permit. For $10 or so you can have two valid permits..... Nix the idea of using a photocopy. If you were a storeowner accepting a check from someone you didn't know, would you accept a photocopy of a person's ID? I wouldn't ...

No, I wouldn't either but a store owner does not have access to the DMV, a cop does. If you are in a situation where you have to present your DL or CCP the cop is going to run your info regardless to check for validity and warrants.

I keep photo copies of all my important documents like DL CCP, passport, birth certificate, etc, in several places just in case the unexpected happens. You could loose your wallet or have it stolen and need the copies or a number off of them for reissue. Having a backup copy would speed things along. I travel overseas for business and I carry a copy of my passport in case my original is lost or stolen. In fact, it is recommended to do so as this will help getting you a temp issued. Having a duplicate DL or CCP at home in a safe place would not be a bad idea.
 

apvbguy

New member
No, I wouldn't either but a store owner does not have access to the DMV, a cop does.

what does a cop's access to a dmv data base have anything to do with having a permit to carry?
you need to realize that however things work where you are is NOT how things work everywhere
 

Deanimator

New member
Trying to decide if carrying a copy would be okay. I carry when I run in the forest and don't carry my full wallet. Big hassle to keep removing/replacing my permit due to how it fits in wallet. Besides, if carrying a good color copy is okay, I can have several duplicates in alternate wallets, running pack, off-body cases, etc. Police told me the law was "moot" (probably meant "mute") on this issue. Your thoughts?
Purely a state and local matter.

I've HEARD that in Pennsylvania, that's OK.

Here in Ohio, that'd be a crime.

Know the laws where YOU live.
 

spdracr39

New member
Hard to justify not being able to carry your actual permit when you can find a way to carry your firearm. Don't they make holsters that have a place for your permit?
 

PC1

New member
As a last resort backup of uncertain utility, I also carry color copies of essential permits and IDs, passport, etc, in my iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad.

I once got a pharmacy to accept my health insurance to pay for a prescription based on taking the insurance info off of my iPhone's electronic copy, but that's not the same thing as trying to satisfy a CCW-hostile LEO.

What bugs me is that I believe the LEOs usually have quick access to databases of CCW permit holders, anyway, so why do they need to see a paper copy too?
 
what does a cop's access to a dmv data base have anything to do with having a permit to carry?
you need to realize that however things work where you are is NOT how things work everywhere

In NC, our permit is linked to our driver's license. If a cop runs your tag and you're the registered owner of the vehicle, it will notify him you've got a concealed carry permit before he ever gets out of his car.
 

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