Can you say lawsuit time...


Sheldon

New member
Baptist Pastor Beaten and Tazed by DHS!! Talk about excessive use and abuse of power, sounds like Orleans all over again.


The TV story... CBS Chanel 5 news story

Further looking brought up this one too, but this makes it look like he just goes out looking for issues to get beat up by.... Past Altercations So I guess this kind of boils down to "Seek and Ye shall find" trouble that is....

thoughts anyone....
 

Mr. Vegas

New member
to me it doesn't seem like an abuse of power when they act as they do...the problem is that they have the idea implanted in their brain somewhere along the lines of training that they in fact DO have the power and authority to treat Americans with whatever force and disreguard of rights (and the constitution) as they see fit. My point is that this comes down from their superiors, they are taught to be this way...that in its self is the scary part.

The lines of criminals and regular law abiding citizens have been blurred or erased in their mind so in a way we the public are to be considered a threat to their authority. Just another moment to mark the path in which we are traveling towards socialism...turn the police into a private sector military, beat the public into submission, impose your evil will as you wish....this will not last forever.....people will revolt eventually..this may work in other contries but the will of the AMERICAN public is too strong and won't be broken, it's gonna come to the people to save this country, not the government...
 

prive005

New member
Its funny, you watch the first 2 videos and you almost feel bad for the guy, but after watching the last one its as if he drove to this checkpoint looking for a confrontation. I tell you what, it would be interesting to see how the guy acted with the border patrol. While no innocent person deserves the treatment he got, it seems like he got the confrontation he wanted.
 

Ironhorse

New member
Its funny, you watch the first 2 videos and you almost feel bad for the guy, but after watching the last one its as if he drove to this checkpoint looking for a confrontation. I tell you what, it would be interesting to see how the guy acted with the border patrol. While no innocent person deserves the treatment he got, it seems like he got the confrontation he wanted.

I felt the same way. After watching the last, I no longer felt as sorry for him. That's the downside to having a confrontation with Law Enforcement - you usually lose, and it usually hurts.
 

prive005

New member
No one deserves that kind of harassment on the job that that guy did, especially to cops who have it rough as is. If that guy came into my occupation with an attitude like that, i woulda def had a few choice words and actions for him.
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
Granted this guy doesn't know beans about LEOs

Here is the situation. I would hope and pray that out Police would be smarter than that. You run into abrasive personalities every single day. The Border patrol agents do overstep their bounds and abuse their power on a regular basis. I can remember being grilled for 15 minutes about whether or not my kids were actually mine in NM in the 1990's. They need to be put on a shorter leash. This guy, "the Pastor", obviously gets off on pushing cops buttons. He did not deserve the beating or the tasing or the cuts. He did deserve due process. In this situation he pretty much stood on his 4th amendment right. This seemed to piss off the Border patrol guys and they called in the State Patrol to handle jurisdiction they did not have. I promise you that Border patrol briefed the Troopers with exactly what they needed to hear to piss them off too. Rather than coming into this with a clear head they played right into the desires of the Border patrol to beat the crap out of this guy because he pissed them off. Cops have other cops backs. This is not a good situation for Border Patrol, The State Troopers or the guy who was beaten. It erodes the credibility of the officers in future cases, It Makes the State Troopers look like gorillas, and it gives a huge black eye to pastors.

This is a lose lose lose situation. Yes, He may get a huge settlement...but he also sort of had it coming. It is uncalled for for the officers to beat and taser him and drop him on his face in the broken glass. That is a serious LACK OF JUDGEMENT on the part of all LEOs involved. He did have a 4th amendment right to say no to a search without a warrant no matter how big of a pain in the neck he is being to the LEOs involved. As professionals, I would hope that the standards run just a tad higher than that. They should never have let this guy get under their skin.
 

Sheldon

New member
This is a lose lose lose situation. Yes, He may get a huge settlement...but he also sort of had it coming. It is uncalled for for the officers to beat and taser him and drop him on his face in the broken glass. That is a serious LACK OF JUDGEMENT on the part of all LEOs involved. He did have a 4th amendment right to say no to a search without a warrant no matter how big of a pain in the neck he is being to the LEOs involved. As professionals, I would hope that the standards run just a tad higher than that. They should never have let this guy get under their skin.

But did he.. he offered no resistance, he complied with every order given him by a legal authority, this is kind of reminiscent of Janet Reno and Waco Texas on a much smaller scale....

If this is allowed to happen regardless of how big of a bozo he may have been they did seriously overstep and abuse their power and this needs to be addressed before they start random searches in every state under the guise of boarder Search... which he was over 100 miles from at the time... and wishing to assert your constitutional 4th amendment protection is not grounds for this kind of abuse

Who ever instigated this abuse needs to have their rear kicked in court prosecuted, and fired POST HASTE.....
 

Scarecrow

New member
ok yeah.. after seeing the 3rd video you can really see what a D'bag that guy is.. he is obviously going around looking for trouble. he is not respectful at all in his dealings with these people who are trying to protect and serve. I'd be getting him for harrassment.
 

utimmer43

New member
Nah, the 3rd video doesn't change anything for me. He was well within his rights and not out of line in any of the encounters on the 3rd video.

This is purely my speculation, but it seems to me like this is a checkpoint that he frequently passes through. The first few times he probably just answered their questions. But at some point he got tired of hearing "your papers, please?" So now he doesn't do anything that he is not legally obligated to do.

I say good for him to stand his ground and not submit to unreasonable search or questioning. Sometimes we need to take a face beating here and there to bring attention to infringements to our God given rights.
 

Austin

New member
As a LEO I must say that we dont have to go hand-to-hand with you (think walker texas ranger) we are allowed by law to go one "force level" higher than the other person to "control and defend"

That said, I am not the gestapo! I do not like to hurt people. But nor do I like to be hurt when I am trying to do my job.

Before I get flamed on let me say this. I did not watch the video and am defending nobodies actions. But I do get a little upset when people automatically get on their kick about how cops are evil stormtrooper nazis whenever they get a chance. To those of you that feel this way do us all a favor, next time you need help call a crackhead not the cops.

Again, I did not watch the video and am defending nobodies actions. Nor am I going to come back to this post to get into a juvenile internet argument. Afterall arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

Ok, Flame on i guess.:wacko:
 

Sheldon

New member
UPDATE... N this may PO all

100 miles and they have authority to violate the US constitution, now I do not like the ACLU but...

Link Removed

It seems that Johnson's participation in the anti-fence demonstration may have landed him on a government watch list that has inhibited his ability to travel freely between the US and Mexico. A professor of Music, Johnson said he traveled to Tijuana about a week after the protest; upon returning to the US, Johnson says he was handcuffed and arrested by customs agents after a listing associated with his name pegged him as armed and dangerous.

"I was thoroughly and aggressively searched. ... Every inch and crack and crevice of my body was poked and prodded," Johnson said. "I was in complete bewilderment of what was going on; I felt violated and frankly was embarrassed."

Prior to that visit, Johnson said he had traveled regularly between the US and Mexico for a variety of reasons without facing any harassment. After the June visit, Johnson said he did not cross the border again until October, when he decided to go simply to see whether he could re-enter the country easily. He was subjected to the same harassment.

"It took me four months to return to Mexico," he said. "Not because I'm afraid of traveling outside my own country, but rather because I'm afraid of returning home."

Johnson spoke Wednesday at a gathering organized by the American Civil Liberties Union, which is highlighting the extent to which the Department of Homeland Security is expanding the authority it claims at US border crossings to infringe upon Americans rights.

The ACLU says a "Constitution-free zone" exists within 100 miles of the US border, where DHS claims the authority to stop, search and detain anyone for any reason. Nearly two-thirds of the US population lives within 100 miles of the border, according to the ACLU, and the border zone encompasses scores of major metropolitan areas and even entire states.
Customs and Border Patrol, a component of DHS, was authorized by Congress to operate within a "reasonable" distance of the border, and that distance has been set at 100 miles in regulations governing CBP, the ACLU says. The authorization has been in place for decades, but complaints about abuses of the extended border zone began to ramp up as CBP was expanded and folded into DHS after 9/11.

Also of concern, according to the group, is the border patrol's use of massive databases and watch lists to screen travelers. Much remains unknown about how those lists are compiled and it is exceedingly difficult for a person to be removed from the list once he or she is added to it.

ACLU affiliates around the country have fielded dozens of calls from people claiming they were harassed by border agents, and the group believes there are untold numbers of other victims who are afraid to come forward.

No lawsuits have yet been filed against DHS or CBP, but the ACLU says its attorneys in border states are preparing cases.

"Part of what we're trying to do is to draw our own line in the sand here and say this has to stop," Barry Steinhardt, director of the ACLU's Technology and Liberty Program, said Wednesday. "We cannot determine two-thirds of America as a Constitution free zone."

DHS 33 "interior checkpoints" that are monitored by the border patrol, according to a 2005 Government Accountability Office report. The ACLU assumes more checkpoints have been established since then, and group affiliates have complained about checkpoints as far as 93 miles from the border.

ACLU lobbyists are working with members of Congress to rein in DHS's border authority. Caroline Fredrickson, the group's chief legislative counsel, praised a measure introduced by Sen. Russ Feingold and others to ban suspicionless laptop searches at the border.

"We need to restore the Constitution to the Constitution-free zone," Fredrickson said.

Wednesday's event also featured a video testimonial from Vince Peppard, another San Diegoan who faced trouble from border agents. Peppard said he was stopped at least 20 miles inside the border on a return trip from Mexico. He refused to open his trunk "on a matter of principle" and was detained for about 30 minutes.

"I didn't feel like I was in the United States," he says. "I felt like I was in some kind of police state."



Border Patrol (100 miles from the border)
 

utimmer43

New member
As a LEO I must say that we dont have to go hand-to-hand with you (think walker texas ranger) we are allowed by law to go one "force level" higher than the other person to "control and defend"
I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.

I did not watch the video and am defending nobodies actions. But I do get a little upset when people automatically get on their kick about how cops are evil stormtrooper nazis whenever they get a chance.
Again, no arguement. But, I am curious... is there a specific post in this thread that comes off as "people automatically getting on their kick about how cops are evil stormtrooper nazis whenever they get a chance"? You state that you haven't watched the video. It seems like you've not read the thread either, any further than perhaps the title. The point I'm trying to make is, if you have a problem with those who rush to judgement against cops, you would do well not to make a presumptive judgement against people commenting on a video that you haven't even watched.
 

Sheldon

New member
I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.

Again, no arguement. But, I am curious... is there a specific post in this thread that comes off as "people automatically getting on their kick about how cops are evil stormtrooper nazis whenever they get a chance"? You state that you haven't watched the video. It seems like you've not read the thread either, any further than perhaps the title. The point I'm trying to make is, if you have a problem with those who rush to judgement against cops, you would do well not to make a presumptive judgement against people commenting on a video that you haven't even watched.

Actually in my state every involvement with a police officer has been pleasant, and short... I just greet them with a 'Hello officer what can I do for you" but then only one time has been a traffic stop in the last 30+
 

Fallschirmjäger

New member
This country has given its people more freedom than any other government in the history of the world. You should thank your lucky stars for the rights and freedoms you've been granted.

It's only when the people respect and fear the government that there is liberty. When the government fears the people there is only anarchy and tyranny.
 

Red Hat

New member
It's only when the people respect and fear the government that there is liberty. When the government fears the people there is only anarchy and tyranny.
I think you have that backwards. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

I want the government to fear the people. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights empowers the people not the Government. When the Government empowers itself then freedom is denied.
 

utimmer43

New member
This country has given its people more freedom than any other government in the history of the world. You should thank your lucky stars for the rights and freedoms you've been granted.

It's only when the people respect and fear the government that there is liberty. When the government fears the people there is only anarchy and tyranny.

God gave me my rights, not this country. But I'm not sure how that relates to the topic.
 
W

wolfhunter

Guest
I deliberately left off the {sarcasm} icon to see how many would get it....without it having to be spelled out for them.

Sorry, we have a few 0bama-following socialists that pop their heads up occasionally, and your comment could've been taken as one of their bits of confusion.
 

krazyk

New member
I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.

Again, no arguement. But, I am curious... is there a specific post in this thread that comes off as "people automatically getting on their kick about how cops are evil stormtrooper nazis whenever they get a chance"? You state that you haven't watched the video. It seems like you've not read the thread either, any further than perhaps the title. The point I'm trying to make is, if you have a problem with those who rush to judgement against cops, you would do well not to make a presumptive judgement against people commenting on a video that you haven't even watched.

+1 :biggrin:
 

Sheldon

New member
Age makes a difference!!!

In my time I have known many police officers, and some were real macho supper man types, and some were layback...

Give them attitude and they were all on the defense, greet them pleasantly and they were all OK and in many cases would just give a warning....

Youth plays a huge factor in this, the younger the officer the more gung ho, the older the more easy going....

If you want easy going just bite your tongue be cheerful and pleasant when stopped, but never allow them to step on all over you either....

There is a % of just flat out @$$'s out there and they want to transfer their bad day to you.... So best defense, is request their watch commander to be notified with his attendance, and call your lawyer, that tends to slow them down a tad....
 

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