Can university confiscate your weapon?

[CCWlady]

I work on a university campus in Indiana and today I ask our campus chief of police what happens if they catch a legally permitted student or employee conceal carrying a gun on campus. He said it is not against the law but is against university policy. Which is also my understanding, but then he went on to say that they could confiscate the weapon. I can see where they could ask the person to leave campus or even fire an employee, but how can that take the weapon? I might even understand that they take the weapon until the person is off the campus, but he said they could keep it for the entire semester.
So if I believe what he is saying, then could a retail store also confiscate your weapon if you are caught in their store?

 

[cawpin]

No, they cannot. If you aren't breaking any laws, the university can ask you to leave, that is all. If you refuse, then the police could take it and arrest you if they so choose.

I grew up and went to school in Indiana so I'd be very interested to know what school's PD this is.

 

[Treo]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]

Your answer is in the fifth amendment to the US Constitution. Personally if they tried it I'd let them and then sue the Hell out of the school for violating my civil liberties.

That said, by asking the Campus P.D. you have very likely put yourself on the radar. I expect they will be watching you

 

[CCWlady]

Your answer is in the fifth amendment to the US Constitution. Personally if they tried it I'd let them and then sue the Hell out of the school for violating my civil liberties.

That said, by asking the Campus P.D. you have very likely put yourself on the radar. I expect they will be watching you

I cannot afford to lose my job so I do not carry on-campus. Also I ask him about this after a presentation he did on active shooter so it was not an out of the blue question

 

[REB1969]

If there is some type of contract

I work on a university campus in Indiana and today I ask our campus chief of police what happens if they catch a legally permitted student or employee conceal carrying a gun on campus.

In general no, but since you asked specifically about students and employees, if they have signed any type of contract with the school that set conditions of their attendance or employment, then the school might legally be able to.

 

[cawpin]

In general no, but since you asked specifically about students and employees, if they have signed any type of contract with the school that set conditions of their attendance or employment, then the school might legally be able to.

No, they still can't and it would be foolish of them to do so. They would have to guarantee the safety of the item while in their possession.

 

[REB1969]

I would still think, if it is in the student policies and an employment contract that the student or employee has signed stating that if found carrying a legally concealed weapon, the school has the right to confiscate the weapon for the rest of the semester, then they would be allowed to do that, or it would be a breach of contract. But that is totally different from the law in general which I agree, there is no way they could do that.

 

[whodat2710]

I would still think, if it is in the student policies and an employment contract that the student or employee has signed stating that if found carrying a legally concealed weapon, the school has the right to confiscate the weapon for the rest of the semester, then they would be allowed to do that, or it would be a breach of contract. But that is totally different from the law in general which I agree, there is no way they could do that.

If you have a "breach of contract", there are a number of options they have, but none would include them confiscating your gun. If you are in a state where "proper signage" for no weapons allowed is recognized by law, and they have these signs posted per that law (1.e. every entrance, proper wording, proper size etc) then you could be breaking that state law. If you are in a state where carrying on a campus is illegal by law, you would be breakig that law. You would still need to look into what legal actions the LEO are allowed to take if you break that law. If you were in a random business that said "no guns" and they called the cops on you, the cops would not confiscate your gun, they would ask you to leave. As long as you weren't threatening anyone, they wouldn't want to do the paperwork required for taking posession of your gun, and unless you were charged with a crime and arrested would have no legal recourse to do so.
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It is quite likely that the "campus police" are wrong. Whether they are actual cops on a side job, or rent-a-cops with no state authority, they are not lawyers. I would ask a NRA-ILA lawyer in your area, or a pro-2A lawyer, or find the applicable laws your self (and make sure to look at all ordinances that are referenced as well)

 

[cawpin]

It is quite likely that the "campus police" are wrong. Whether they are actual cops on a side job, or rent-a-cops with no state authority, they are not lawyers. I would ask a NRA-ILA lawyer in your area, or a pro-2A lawyer, or find the applicable laws your self (and make sure to look at all ordinances that are referenced as well)

I can guarantee you that this particular campus police officer is wrong, for the reasons you stated.

And, for everyone's information, in Indiana, 1. Campus police are real police; they must go through the same academy as all police in the state. (to have arrest power in any state I would think this is the same) and 2. Signs do not carry weight of law for this purpose. (It would end the way whodat2710 said, with a trespass warning and you would be sent on your way.)

 

[whodat2710]

(to have arrest power in any state I would think this is the same)

Some places use hired security companies, and many are just a liason with law enforcement intended as a deterrent and/or someone to hopefully keep things from getting out of habnd until the cops get there. Not all have arrest authority, but can "detain" you until a LEO arrives.

 

[wolf_fire]

I work on a university campus in Indiana and today I ask our campus chief of police what happens if they catch a legally permitted student or employee conceal carrying a gun on campus. He said it is not against the law but is against university policy. Which is also my understanding, but then he went on to say that they could confiscate the weapon. I can see where they could ask the person to leave campus or even fire an employee, but how can that take the weapon? I might even understand that they take the weapon until the person is off the campus, but he said they could keep it for the entire semester.
So if I believe what he is saying, then could a retail store also confiscate your weapon if you are caught in their store?

Unless there is a law on the book, like a state law, that prohibits the carrying on campus, the campus authorities cannot keep your possessions for an extended period of time. If however, it is just campus policy then they have violated your 5th Amendment right by confiscating your possession. If however, you refuse to leave when confronted, then you have then broken trespassing laws and at that point, they can arrest you and confiscate your weapon.

What they can do, is break the contract you have made with them. That means they could terminate a student's admission, terminate an employee's job, reprimand said student, or reprimand said employee. They cannot confiscate that which you own.

 

[cawpin]

Some places use hired security companies, and many are just a liason with law enforcement intended as a deterrent and/or someone to hopefully keep things from getting out of habnd until the cops get there. Not all have arrest authority, but can "detain" you until a LEO arrives.

That is why I qualified that statement with "to have arrest powers."

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Nobody.... And I mean nobody is taking my gun away from me.. Period.
There will be a major problem for anyone who tries....


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[cawpin]

Nobody.... And I mean nobody is taking my gun away from me.. Period.
There will be a major problem for anyone who tries....


Sent from behind enemy lines.

That depends greatly on whether you break the law.

 

[SmackD]

I chuckle sadly when people ask if the police "can" do something. Or say that police "can't" do something.
I grew up in the Deep South in the late 1960s and early '70s, worked the cop beat as a cub reporter, and had relatives in law enforcement. Police "can" do anything they choose, including murder you. Also, don't invest too heavily in "innocent until proven guilty." The prosecutors must work with the police. (In small towns they must attend the same family gatherings.) Thanksgiving dinner "can" be uncomfortable if the prosecutor rejects the officer's version of the facts. (It seems to happen outside the South, too. After the Boston bombing, it appeared all government officials ignored the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, while the "subjects" seems to gladly relinquish their rights.

 

[cawpin]

I chuckle sadly when people ask if the police "can" do something. Or say that police "can't" do something.

Keep chuckling smugly to yourself. We're talking about what they can do legally. Just because the police where you're from ruled the town doesn't mean that's how it is everywhere else.

And, for the record, I'm VERY pro-police but I happen to know more than most what they are, and are not, allowed to do in a legal sense.

 

[vernsimpson]

I did not grow up in the "deep" South but I did grow up in a small town and county. I know for a fact that the police and the Sheriff did make calls on what to take to court and when not to. Without using any names I will tell a story about a homicide that happened in the county.

There was a man shot and killed while on his back porch. The Sheriff investigated it and still today it is an open case. But the word was that the murdered man had caught a young boy hunting on his property and had taken away his gun and used the rifle to whip the boy and then kept the gun. The boy's Mother shot the man for doing this. The woman was well respected in the county and the murdered man was not. I doubt that she would have ever been convicted.

There were other things that did go on. There was no beatings because it was a small town and county and if that had happened there would had been repercussions that neither the Police or Sheriff's Departments would be able to survive!

 

[tionico]

Don't know about INdiana, but I DO know about Washington STate. Just finished up a degree at the local state college..... carry on campus is banned to all except the cops.. who, as far as I know are real cops. I was there for four months before I learned it is forbideen on the campus. Funny thing, a public highway bisects the campus property and I wonder how many carry whilst driving on that highway. Anyway, it is hidden deep inside the student code of conduct. The first thing they do is expell you immediately if you're a student.It can't be a criminal offense, as state law preempts all local law, and the college, being an arm of the state, IS a subordinate government. NO SIGNAGE as required by state law for ALL areas outlawying firearms. It isn't even posted in the campus regulations.. ONLY in the :code of conduct". Once expelled, you do have right of appeal, but from the very liberal tenor of the admistration there, it wou;dn't go anywhere. Further, state law rquires any property owner banning firearms to provide a safe and secire means of storing, and returning when leaving, the arm.... not available here. State law provides that the owner of PRIVATE property (not state campuses, as they are state owned) may deny possession to all who enter.... and if discovered they can demand the "offender" remove the firearm..... either with or without the owner. (so you can stash it somewhere and come back without it, fine, they can't keep you out then). Failing or refusing to leave when demanded to do so, the carrier is then subject to a criminal charge of trespass. I do not believe their rules provide for the seizure of the weapon, only the immediate expulsion from school, and leaving the campus with the 'offending" hardware immediately. Can't come back on campus until cleared by "the authorities".

I am convinced this whole nonsense needs to be overturned. There is NO REASON why a permitted gun owner must commute unarmed to school when he can carry nearly everywhere else in the state. and we HAVE had some significantly violent attacks on the campus during the time I've been there. If I had to be on campus at night I'd have carried anyway. Hah, before I learned it was verboten, I carried daily for four months. Even standing in the lobby of the cop shop taking care of parking permit busines, foot cops in and out, standing and walking right next to me. No one ever got a clue.

 

[jfisch]

I carry on a local campus all the time. I just make sure I switch from my usually OC to CC. However, I'm neither an employee or student so they have no real power unless I'm breaking a law.

 

[Lowjiber]

Confiscating my firearm might be a bit of a problem.