Can Muslims be good Americans?

Sheldon

New member
Possibly a re post but always good food for thought....



CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ...

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam . (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews ..

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation ofIsrael and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . .. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religionand expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. .....

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
 

Wish everyone would understand and believe this

Seems more and more often we speak to our children regarding this. It is our willingness to want to trust and believe that somehow muslims would "see the light", I often tell my kids that it is always much easier to hate than to love and be kind. They witness the truth in this daily.
 
If you have to ask that question go look at yourself in a mirror and ask that same question. You act like all Muslim are not from the USA, well I hate to be the one to tell you but some are born in the USA making them US citizens. And since you want to bring religion into it, I ask Can Christians be good Americans?

Then try to explain why Christians make better Americans then atheists? For the founders of America decided that everyone should have the right to worship whatever region they chose.

So your question makes you a bad American.
 
@Sheldon

This is more than a little racist and frankly I'm ashamed that, as a gun owner and Second Amendment advocate, I'm associated with people like you.

By your logic, as an Atheist, I cannot be a good American either. Yet, I'd be standing right next to you defending our right to keep and bear arms. And every other right protected by the Constitution.

The Constitution is not based on Biblical principles; it is a secular constitution as the founding fathers intended it to be. Most of the founding fathers were either Deists, or Atheists.
 
Seems there was a rattlesnake and a man standing on the banks of the river. The rattlesnake asked the man to carry him across but the man replied that he didn't want to get bit. "If you'll carry me across, I'll promise not to bite you", replied the snake. So the man agreed. As they reached the opposite bank, the snake bit the man severely. "But, you promised not to bite me!" exclaimed the astonished man. "Yeah, but you knew what I was when you picked me up", replied the snake.

Just a little fable.
 
@Sheldon

This is more than a little racist and frankly I'm ashamed that, as a gun owner and Second Amendment advocate, I'm associated with people like you.

By your logic, as an Atheist, I cannot be a good American either. Yet, I'd be standing right next to you defending our right to keep and bear arms. And every other right protected by the Constitution.

The Constitution is not based on Biblical principles; it is a secular constitution as the founding fathers intended it to be. Most of the founding fathers were either Deists, or Atheists.

What part of the truth makes it racist? As far as you last paragraph you are showing your ignorance.
 
No - there is not one of them, (Obama included) who here to embrace America. I sincerely believe that on a given day, at a given hour they will take up arms against us and we will have to defeat them on our own soil! :angry:
 
Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

"For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

References: Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

References: John Adams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

And:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

Jon Jay: Anglican

James Madison:

"We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison:

n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

References: Alexander Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine
 
read

Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

"For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

References: Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

References: John Adams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

And:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

Jon Jay: Anglican

James Madison:

"We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison:

n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

References: Alexander Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine
 
I don't understand this whole anti-arab thing. they wear sheets just like the KKK only they have enough sense to wrap the headdress instead of having to cut holes in the pillow case. So what's the big deal with ya' awal?
 
He can't because it is a load of dung.

Oh, I can and I've tried to post some supporting information a few times but the post keeps getting flagged for moderation.

Fact of the matter is by the OP's reasoning the founding fathers would be incapable of being good Americans.
 
I challenge you to prove that.

Ok, one more try...

Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

"For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

References:
Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Virtue.2C_religion.2C_and_personal_beliefs

George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

References: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Religious_views

Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

And:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

Jon Jay: Anglican

James Madison:

"We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison:

n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

References: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton#Hamilton.27s_religion

This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine
 
If you have to ask that question go look at yourself in a mirror and ask that same question. You act like all Muslim are not from the USA, well I hate to be the one to tell you but some are born in the USA making them US citizens. And since you want to bring religion into it, I ask Can Christians be good Americans?

Then try to explain why Christians make better Americans then atheists? For the founders of America decided that everyone should have the right to worship whatever region they chose.

So your question makes you a bad American.

And that intolerance of someone asking a simple question makes you a bad American. Same Same...

Some people have opinions and don't feel like they should have to be tolerant of things simply because someone else believes they should be. Freedom of choice and free will. That's what American was founded on as well. So go and be the bad American your way and let the others be bad Americans their way...
 
And that intolerance of someone asking a simple question makes you a bad American. Same Same...

Some people have opinions and don't feel like they should have to be tolerant of things simply because someone else believes they should be. Freedom of choice and free will. That's what American was founded on as well. So go and be the bad American your way and let the others be bad Americans their way...

Well, see that's the thing. People exercising their freedoms protected by the Constitution seems like something good Americans do... so by your own logic Muslims are good Americans because their exercising their freedom.
 

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