Can I draw my weapon in this case?

[BluesStringer]

The off-topic stuff was the best part of this thread, and the only reason I posted in it at all. The OP doesn't want your honest opinions, he wants blood-lust that he can forward to the SPLC or Bloomie or the Mommies, or maybe just the stuff he "authors" like the excerpt from NavyLCDR's post on the first page. He fancies himself a "writer" dontcha know, but he's a gun-grabber, no doubt about it.

Do you guys not see who the op is? This is the same guy who writes anti gun papers for other websites....do you think he is going to actually use these replies positively?

You mean Conrad Luznar, age somewhere between 54-65, from Cleveland, OH?

Firefighterchen.... you win.... ding, ding, ding!

How to Prevent Gun Violence by Conrad Luznar | World Issues 360

How to Prevent Gun Violence
By: Conrad Luznar

...
A good gun owner knows that guns are for target practice, hunting, and defending yourself. A bad gun owner thinks they can use their guns to settle problems or do away with people they consider enemies.
...
As for gun bans, without a doubt assault rifles must be banned, citizens have no need for assault rifles in an educated society. Handguns, hunting rifles, and shotguns are more than enough for protection and/or hunting. There could also be a limit on the size of handgun magazines. Maybe make all handgun magazines ten rounds or less. This is an area where the government needs to get together with gun manufacturers and discuss these things.

So, I'm just going to ask, can we PLEASE get back off-topic? LOL

Blues

 

[vernsimpson]

Perhaps we could print up some little signs for the anti's that say that they are a, "Gun Free Zone" wherever they are. That way the anti's can ALWAYS be safe!!!! :haha:

 

[r1derbike]

Perhaps we could print up some little signs for the anti's that say that they are a, "Gun Free Zone" wherever they are. That way the anti's can ALWAYS be safe!!!! :haha:

HaHa! Front and rear posterboard size so the elderly may read it as well.

"I'm a gun-free-zone". ROTFLMAO! Stop it! You're killing me!

 

[Graylon]

I'm a person that since Ive had my conceal carry and I carry everywhere I'm even more quick to get away from danger. I know that sounds weird but in any situation you aren't familiar with the first thing you are going to do is pull your trump card, which is the gun.

I love my gun, I love carrying her I make references to her as my wife. when I clean her play "ain't no woman like the one I got" by the four tops. I feel the only reason to involve her is last choice situation. Or there has to be a situation to protect loved ones that im are willing to take the consequences.

I believe had Zimmerman not been on duty that night travon would be a live and people like Zimmerman are the ones that scared me in my conceal carry class cause we're taking this class and sounding like a bunch of vigilantes. All I wanted was to be legal to carry. They wanted to know how to legally kill someone. Every scenario they would ask was never about the law it was about them being a hero or where could they shoot someone and kill them and not get prosecuted. I think about the guy, I believe it was in Arizona where the guy and girl approach two cops and shot and killed them then went into walmart and killed a guy I call him "mr. Conceal carry". Mr. Conceal Carry didn't have to die the two killers wanted kill themselves at that point. Mr. Conceal Carry tries to stop them and gets his head blown off.

I always think about how I grew up. You pull a weapon, gun, stick anything you up it to life or death. When you don't know the person or persons you are dealing with, choose to opt out no matter what the law allows. FLEE! If you can't do what you have to survive and save your loved ones.

When I read the op's scenerio... The first thing I thought of was the movie Carlito's Way. When Al Picino told Sean Penn that he was going wave that gun around at the wrong guy and he was going to take it from him and bury it up his ass. That statement applies to real life. If you want to stop crime become a policeman not a Mr. Conceal Carry. Lol

 

[Firefighterchen]

I'm a person that since Ive had my conceal carry and I carry everywhere I'm even more quick to get away from danger. I know that sounds weird but in any situation you aren't familiar with the first thing you are going to do is pull your trump card, which is the gun.

That doesn't sound weird at all...what does sound weird is saying someone else will pull their gun first. If I'm in an unfamiliar situation, no, I won't pull my trump card first. I don't think the majority of carriers would pull the trump card first. Maybe you will pull your gun first thing?

I believe had Zimmerman not been on duty that night travon would be a live and people like Zimmerman are the ones that scared me in my conceal carry class cause we're taking this class and sounding like a bunch of vigilantes.

Zimmerman wasn't on duty, he was going to the grocery store. That scares you?

I think about the guy, I believe it was in Arizona where the guy and girl approach two cops and shot and killed them then went into walmart and killed a guy I call him "mr. Conceal carry". Mr. Conceal Carry didn't have to die the two killers wanted kill themselves at that point. Mr. Conceal Carry tries to stop them and gets his head blown off.

His name was Joseph Wilcox, not Mr concealed carry. This happened in Nevada. He was not shot in the head. Before you chastise someone who was trying to help, get your facts straight, because now not only do you sound ignorant...you also sound like an ass the way your are treating the Wilcox family.

If you want to stop crime become a policeman not a Mr. Conceal Carry. Lol

Laugh out loud that Joseph Wilcox died? You think that's funny?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[bofh]

I believe had Zimmerman not been on duty that night travon would be a live and people like Zimmerman are the ones that scared me in my conceal carry class cause we're taking this class and sounding like a bunch of vigilantes.

If Zimmerman would not have been on his way to the grocery store that night or would have just ignored Martin, Zimmerman would not have faced prosecution and Martin would have gotten high that night and would have continued his criminal career. Read up on Skittles+Arizona Watermelon Juice+Robitussin="Lean" and why he was suspended from Krop High School in Miami-Dade County. I give you two hints "Lean" is a drug. He was suspended from Krop High School in Miami-Dade County, because he wasn't arrested for burglary.

All I wanted was to be legal to carry. They wanted to know how to legally kill someone. Every scenario they would ask was never about the law it was about them being a hero or where could they shoot someone and kill them and not get prosecuted.

You think, you are talking about loudmouths that now have a gun and want to play hero, cop, the Judge, etc. I personally have never met uneducated and immature people like that in person. I guess they exist somewhere. I usually find those online.

The carry class is not only about how to carry legally, but also how to legally use lethal force. Is it possible that those people you speak of just have a better grip on reality and ask the questions that need to be asked? You are better off knowing what is legal and what is not, instead of finding out afterwards that you were mistaken. You are also better off knowing what is tactically the right thing to do and what is not, instead of being sued, injured, or killed because you had the wrong mindset. Unfortunately, many people get their self defense knowledge from TV and movies.

I think about the guy, I believe it was in Arizona where the guy and girl approach two cops and shot and killed them then went into walmart and killed a guy I call him "mr. Conceal carry". Mr. Conceal Carry didn't have to die the two killers wanted kill themselves at that point. Mr. Conceal Carry tries to stop them and gets his head blown off.

Joseph Wilcox was actually a hero. Not all heroes live to tell their story. He reacted to an active shooter that was standing right in front of him. He got shot by a secondary active shooter that was standing right behind him.

I always think about how I grew up. You pull a weapon, gun, stick anything you up it to life or death. When you don't know the person or persons you are dealing with, choose to opt out no matter what the law allows. FLEE! If you can't do what you have to survive and save your loved ones.

You should do some self defense training. You will learn the three phases of self defense: evade, barricade, respond. You will also learn when a particular phase is a bad option. All of this applies to general self defense, independent from the fact that you may carry a lethal weapon.

When I read the op's scenerio... The first thing I thought of was the movie Carlito's Way. When Al Picino told Sean Penn that he was going wave that gun around at the wrong guy and he was going to take it from him and bury it up his ass. That statement applies to real life. If you want to stop crime become a policeman not a Mr. Conceal Carry. Lol

Life is not a movie. You go ahead and call 911. Meanwhile the attacker is killing the victim and everyone else is videoing it. A day later, you see the video on CNN that shows the beating and you on the phone. Nancy Grace is screaming from the top of her lungs "why did't anyone intervene."

As I pouted out in my earlier post, there are consequences in live that you have to live with. The false choice that cluznar put in everyones mind is to either intervene with lethal force or do nothing and be a good witness. This totally ignores the non-lethal choice. As someone else has put it well in this thread, what would you do if you didn't had your gun?

 

[ezkl2230]

Michigan MCL 780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.Sec. 2.


(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:


(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.


(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.


(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

 

[BC1]

If Zimmerman would not have been on his way to the grocery store that night or would have just ignored Martin, Zimmerman would not have faced prosecution and Martin would have gotten high that night and would have continued his criminal career.

That's not a "criminal career." He did nothing at all compared to what some of us did at his age.
.
Nancy Grace is a personal friend since the 90's. Make no mistake... she's anti-gun.

 

[bofh]

That's not a "criminal career." He did nothing at all compared to what some of us did at his age.

Well, every criminal starts small. Having 12 pieces of women's jewelry that he supposedly found, including silver wedding bands, earrings with diamonds and a watch, and a screwdriver described as a "burglary tool" in his school backpack was a start. I certainly did not do that when I was at his age.

Nancy Grace is a personal friend since the 90's. Make no mistake... she's anti-gun.

I know that very well.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

OODA loop here.....


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[apvbguy]

That's not a "criminal career." He did nothing at all compared to what some of us did at his age.

this is the most ignorant and ill informed comment that you've made to date. too bad you only can recite what you are told. people who know and one poster here laid out a good portion of the dead thug's history. he was lost to the streets he was a gang banger that his mother could not control and shipped him off to his father who was living with another woman. FWIW: in the 3 weeks that the dead thug was living in that town house complex petty break ins and other vandalism spiked and that is why he drew zimmerman's interest when he spotted the thug scoping out an open garage.
get a clue you foolish person!

 

[BC1]

Well, every criminal starts small. Having 12 pieces of women's jewelry that he supposedly found, including silver wedding bands, earrings with diamonds and a watch, and a screwdriver described as a "burglary tool" in his school backpack was a start. I certainly did not do that when I was at his age.

Nonetheless, he's not convicted so he's not a criminal. Anecdotal statements are hearsay and prejudicial.

 

[BC1]

this is the most ignorant and ill informed comment that you've made to date. too bad you only can recite what you are told. people who know and one poster here laid out a good portion of the dead thug's history. he was lost to the streets he was a gang banger that his mother could not control and shipped him off to his father who was living with another woman. FWIW: in the 3 weeks that the dead thug was living in that town house complex petty break ins and other vandalism spiked and that is why he drew zimmerman's interest when he spotted the thug scoping out an open garage.
get a clue you foolish person!

Cite any conviction to substantiate the fact that he was a criminal. Here's all there is...
.
Trayvon was suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool.' He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry. Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness
.
OMG!!! He had pot. He skipped school. He's a criminal. Gimmie a break.
.
BTW, I'd appreciate it if you'd ignore me. You wished me dead and called me demented over the death of my child. You didn't apologize for the child statement and made no attempt to walk it back. I thought about that statement all day yesterday. Very hurtful. You've worn-out what little welcome you had. An now another name calling me foolish? Go away. Just go away. My heart breaks over that statement about my little buddy.

 

[bofh]

Nonetheless, he's not convicted so he's not a criminal. Anecdotal statements are hearsay and prejudicial.

Well, I agree that he wasn't convicted, but that's because he wasn't charged. Instead, he was suspended from school, which is a classic move by the PD to lower reported crime rates by reporting less crimes. A high school record is not an anecdotal statement or hearsay. This was part of the evidence discovered during the Zimmerman trial.

 

[BluesStringer]

Trayvon was suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool.' He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry. Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness

The only thing missing from that little blurb is....

"Trayvon's last act as a human being was to try to crack a grown man's head open like an eggshell against a concrete sidewalk, seconds before being stopped from accomplishing his goal by a single gunshot to the heart."

That is part of his "anecdotal, no-conviction" history too, and a jury did decide that that was the most likely true scenario after the prosecution tried to fill their heads with every out-house lie imaginable to relieve Trayvon of the responsibility for that truth.

Blues

 

[BC1]

The only thing missing from that little blurb is....

"Trayvon's last act as a human being was to try to crack a grown man's head open like an eggshell against a concrete sidewalk, seconds before being stopped from accomplishing his goal by a single gunshot to the heart."

That is part of his "anecdotal, no-conviction" history too, and a jury did decide that that was the most likely true scenario after the prosecution tried to fill their heads with every out-house lie imaginable to relieve Trayvon of the responsibility for that truth.

Blues

But we don't know what led up to the actual event. GZ was properly acquitted because there was no evidence. So the innocent until proven guilty works for him. I'm just saying the same consideration should be given to TM... we just don't know. I too would have found GZ not guilty even though I think he's a moon who shows poor judgment.

 

[BC1]

Well, I agree that he wasn't convicted, but that's because he wasn't charged. Instead, he was suspended from school, which is a classic move by the PD to lower reported crime rates by reporting less crimes. A high school record is not an anecdotal statement or hearsay. This was part of the evidence discovered during the Zimmerman trial.

Incorrect.. It wasn't evidence and it was not inadmissible in the trial. There was no testimony allowed regarding photos of guns on the cell phone or the theft of any women's jewelry. A high-school record of issues unrelated to the actual case IS hearsay and is rarely admissible in a court proceeding unrelated to the school incident. It is not a conviction. It does not represent an adjudicated fact. Transcripts may not be admitted. Case law is very strong on this. He was not a criminal and attempts to admit prejudicial statements painting him as such were denied by the court. He might be headed in a bad way but he was still better behaved than I was at his age. As teens we were wild. At 17 or 18 I would have wailed someone who was following me.

 

[BluesStringer]

But we don't know what led up to the actual event. GZ was properly acquitted because there was no evidence. So the innocent until proven guilty works for him. I'm just saying the same consideration should be given to TM... we just don't know. I too would have found GZ not guilty even though I think he's a moon who shows poor judgment.

I only mentioned claims entered into evidence that were corroborated by either witness testimony or forensics. And the jury bought the version that was based on that testimony/evidence. There was precisely zero evidence to show that the gun was introduced before Zimmerman was on his back having his head pounded into the concrete, so no matter what started it, Martin is still responsible for taking the thing to the point that deadly force was decided by the jury to be justified. Only Martin is responsible for that truth. That we do know.

Blues

 

[whodat2710]

Cite any conviction to substantiate the fact that he was a criminal. Here's all there is...
.
Trayvon was suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool.' He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry. Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness
.
OMG!!! He had pot. He skipped school. He's a criminal. Gimmie a break.
.
BTW, I'd appreciate it if you'd ignore me. You wished me dead and called me demented over the death of my child. You didn't apologize for the child statement and made no attempt to walk it back. I thought about that statement all day yesterday. Very hurtful. You've worn-out what little welcome you had. An now another name calling me foolish? Go away. Just go away. My heart breaks over that statement about my little buddy.

He wasn't a criminal, which coincides with conviction. He was a thug.

 

[bofh]

Incorrect.. It wasn't evidence and it was not inadmissible in the trial. There was no testimony allowed regarding photos of guns on the cell phone or the theft of any women's jewelry. A high-school record of issues unrelated to the actual case IS hearsay and is rarely admissible in a court proceeding unrelated to the school incident. It is not a conviction. It does not represent an adjudicated fact. Transcripts may not be admitted. Case law is very strong on this. He was not a criminal and attempts to admit prejudicial statements painting him as such were denied by the court. He might be headed in a bad way but he was still better behaved than I was at his age. As teens we were wild. At 17 or 18 I would have wailed someone who was following me.

I never said that it was used in the trial. I said it was discovered during the trial. I understand that is was inadmissible for this particular trial. That doesn't invalidate the facts by themselves. I also never said that Martin was convicted in any way. I still consider his prior actions as part of a criminal career.