Can I draw my weapon in this case?

[HKS]

So, this is your response to legitimate debate? Even though I have my opinion I am being exposed to information and am not ruling it out. Don't think that I do not grasp the gravity of the responsibility of carrying and the possibility that justice does not get served properly. My reluctence to just tie my hands in chains is that over-fretting the possibilities may cost me or a loved ones life.

Well now you know how it feels to be called a troll, which you have suggested in your other thread.

bofh is definitely a troll.

Eidolon I think is cool though.

And you keep repeating yourself.

Several people have told you that a gun in your hands is no magic talisman. Just showing it is not magical.

You have to shoot with it accurately.

I have tried to point out that if you are outnumbered then your gun is not going to save you. Maybe you have watched too many Rambo movies. or Clint Eastwood. When you are outgunned or outnumbered you will probably die.

Sometimes fleeing is your only sane choice.

The gun does not make you into God.

 

[bofh]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges a bit. First, a house is different than a car. Second, the house is not surrounded by bikers. Third, the wife and kid are not inches away. And again, I'm not suggesting anyone shoot someone outside the car.

This isn't the biker threat. LOL.

I posted an example of a person making a stupid decision because he didn't know the law. Sounds familiar? This person shot someone through a barrier (closed door), claiming self defense based on an imminent threat. Sounds familiar? Stupid is as stupid does!

 

[HKS]

bofh


This message is hidden because bofh is on your ignore list.

 

[HKS]

The one true troll utters his nonsense again.

 

[bofh]

Well now you know how it feels to be called a troll, which you have suggested in your other thread.

bofh is definitely a troll.

Eidolon I think is cool though.

And you keep repeating yourself.

Several people have told you that a gun in your hands is no magic talisman. Just showing it is not magical.

You have to shoot with it accurately.

I have tried to point out that if you are outnumbered then your gun is not going to save you. Maybe you have watched too many Rambo movies. or Clint Eastwood. When you are outgunned or outnumbered you will probably die.

Sometimes fleeing is your only sane choice.

The gun does not make you into God.

maat, realize that HKS has me on his ignore list as he simply can't handle my replies with facts. He needs his safe space. Don't worry HKS isn't actually reading this post.

Where HKS is right is that you, maat, keep repeating yourself. We pretty much already told you all you wanted to know in the first place. You are just not accepting it, so you are coming back with the same argument over and over again. Hence the troll accusation, which seems to be close to being true.

 

[bofh]

bofh


This message is hidden because bofh is on your ignore list.

Case in point!

 

[bofh]

The one true troll utters his nonsense again.

Not that you have any reply with an actual argument here or even quote the post you are referring to. LOL.

 

[maat]

Well now you know how it feels to be called a troll, which you have suggested in your other thread.

bofh is definitely a troll.

Eidolon I think is cool though.

And you keep repeating yourself.

Several people have told you that a gun in your hands is no magic talisman. Just showing it is not magical.

You have to shoot with it accurately.

I have tried to point out that if you are outnumbered then your gun is not going to save you. Maybe you have watched too many Rambo movies. or Clint Eastwood. When you are outgunned or outnumbered you will probably die.

Sometimes fleeing is your only sane choice.

The gun does not make you into God.

I fully understand that a gun in hand is not a magic wand. Yet, showing it can be effective in stopping serious threats. I'm not suggesting people go around pulling guns as magic wands. While I don't believe that pulling your gun means you have to use it, I don't believe it should be pulled(drawing down) unless the circumstance is grave enough to need it.

I also resent this assertion that acting responsibly with a gun to defend yourself is equal to playing Rambo or God.

And yes, fleeing under the circumstances we have addressed is the best action. Unfortunately, it did not work for the driver. What I do get from that scenario is maybe to stay on a highway until the cops can help.

 

[maat]

maat, realize that HKS has me on his ignore list as he simply can't handle my replies with facts. He needs his safe space. Don't worry HKS isn't actually reading this post.

Where HKS is right is that you, maat, keep repeating yourself. We pretty much already told you all you wanted to know in the first place. You are just not accepting it, so you are coming back with the same argument over and over again. Hence the troll accusation, which seems to be close to being true.

Again, I believe you are conflating my meaning of showing the gun. I'm not suggesting I or anyone point a gun "at" the biker in the car scenario. If I were the biker and the driver I was getting ready to assault "showed" a gun, I would cease attacking him.

 

[bofh]

Again, I believe you are conflating my meaning of showing the gun. I'm not suggesting I or anyone point a gun "at" the biker in the car scenario. If I were the biker and the driver I was getting ready to assault "showed" a gun, I would cease attacking him.

Again, this isn't the biker thread. LOL.

Thank you for posting yet another example of you clearly not knowing the law. I already posted that showing your gun as a threat, pointing a gun at someone and shooting your gun at someone are all legally considered using lethal force. In the eye of the law, showing your gun as a threat is the same as shooting at someone and missing. I also already posted in this and the other thread that there is a legal difference between someone getting ready to be assaulted by a guy with a helmet in hand and a barrier, such as a car window, between the attacker and you, and someone actually assaulting you with no barrier between the attacker and you.

Let me put it this way, if you show me your gun in an attempt to deescalate, I am going to shoot you and take my chances in court. You just threatened me with death. That was your choice and you will face the consequences. Do you understand that? Comprende? Capeesh?

 

[HKS]

Again, I believe you are conflating my meaning of showing the gun. I'm not suggesting I or anyone point a gun "at" the biker in the car scenario. If I were the biker and the driver I was getting ready to assault "showed" a gun, I would cease attacking him.

Showing your gun is not magical.

1 - you could have it wrestled away from you. That's why a fair amount of people feel you should not draw until you are ready to shoot.

2 - the opponent could simply draw his own gun and shoot you immediately. This is why a fair amount of people feel you should shoot quickly once you have drawn.

Every situation is different. The gun itself is no magic talisman.

 

[maat]

Showing your gun is not magical.

1 - you could have it wrestled away from you. That's why a fair amount of people feel you should not draw until you are ready to shoot.

2 - the opponent could simply draw his own gun and shoot you immediately. This is why a fair amount of people feel you should shoot quickly once you have drawn.

Every situation is different. The gun itself is no magic talisman.

I agree, but it is very effective as a deterrent to aggression. And no, I would never pull without being prepared to fire, if necessary. I wouldn't even carry at all. In one case of road rage, After a long distance of being honked, fingered and yelled at, I finally pulled over considering he was following me to my destination.

Once I stopped, I put my gun in the glove box. The guy just went on. I understood that stopping and keeping my gun would not be responsible.

I'm here searching input and knowledge concerning possible situations so to avoid indecisive response or possible incriminating myself. Yes, each situation is different, but many have general possibilities to plan for.

 

[HKS]

I agree, but it is very effective as a deterrent to aggression. And no, I would never pull without being prepared to fire, if necessary. I wouldn't even carry at all. In one case of road rage, After a long distance of being honked, fingered and yelled at, I finally pulled over considering he was following me to my destination.

Once I stopped, I put my gun in the glove box. The guy just went on. I understood that stopping and keeping my gun would not be responsible.

I'm here searching input and knowledge concerning possible situations so to avoid indecisive response or possible incriminating myself. Yes, each situation is different, but many have general possibilities to plan for.

I would never pull over and stop like that.

The only safe places to pull over are (1) at your house (where you have more guns and ammo) or (2) at a police station.

I would also never disarm myself. Are you kidding ??

 

[maat]

I would never pull over and stop like that.

The only safe places to pull over are (1) at your house (where you have more guns and ammo) or (2) at a police station.

I would also never disarm myself. Are you kidding ??

In hindsight, I would not pull over again. Yet, I got him off my back and would not have put myself into a situation with my gun that could have gone bad for me, although, here in Oklahoma, I can stand my ground. Sure, I could have opened myself to him having a weapon, which is why I will not pullover again.

 

[Bikenut]

I would never pull over and stop like that.

The only safe places to pull over are (1) at your house (where you have more guns and ammo) or (2) at a police station.

I would also never disarm myself. Are you kidding ??

I would never lead a possible bad guy to my home and potentially endanger the rest of my family.

 

[HKS]

I would never lead a possible bad guy to my home and potentially endanger the rest of my family.

That is a good point.

However if I can get to my assault carbine and my 30 round mags then I can blow them all away because then they would be outgunned since it is unlikely any of these bikers has an Uzi.

The local police dept is probably the safest bet, if you have family at home -- correct -- I agree.

I don't have family at home.

 

[HKS]

In hindsight, I would not pull over again. Yet, I got him off my back and would not have put myself into a situation with my gun that could have gone bad for me, although, here in Oklahoma, I can stand my ground. Sure, I could have opened myself to him having a weapon, which is why I will not pullover again.

Good.

If someone is on your tail like that the best thing with modern cell phone communications is call the highway patrol.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would never pull over and stop like that.

The only safe places to pull over are (1) at your house (where you have more guns and ammo)

Absolutely the wrong thing to do. Now the potential perpetrator knows where you live. And who is to guarantee that the perpetrator will allow you the luxury of getting out of your vehicle and entering your house? My home is absolutely the last place I am going to lead a road rager or a biker gang member to.

 

[Licensed_2Carry]

A bus driver told a young man to turn his music down. The young man started forward swearing at the driver. The driver stopped the bus, got off and called police on his cell phone. The guy got off and approached the driver who told him he wanted no more trouble. The young guy punched the driver in the shoulder and the driver pushed him backwards. Then the young guy started hitting the driver more. Now at this point would I have the right to pull my weapon and tell the perp to stop? And if he came at me would I be right in pulling the trigger? He had no knife of gun in his hand, but could have done some damage.

I was not on this bus, just wonder what I may have done if I was? :triniti:

Police did show up and arrest the man.

This type of situation is why it’s important to have empty handed skills. There doesn’t sound like there was imminent threat of death here. Getting punched in the shoulder or anywhere else doesn’t warrant deadly force unless there’s a major disparity of force (i.e. woman vs male, old vs young, large vs small). I’m a bigger guy so I’m definitely not trying to place myself in a position to fight for my freedom when I can defend myself just fine against an unarmed attacker without drawing my firearm.


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[niceshootintex]

Absolutely the wrong thing to do. Now the potential perpetrator knows where you live. And who is to guarantee that the perpetrator will allow you the luxury of getting out of your vehicle and entering your house? My home is absolutely the last place I am going to lead a road rager or a biker gang member to.

+1. I don't know why people would ever lead a road rager or other malcontent to their driveway.

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