Can Canadians get a US CCW Permit?


LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
That statement is absolutely incorrect. Please provide the cite to law to support it.
The criteria for buying from a FFL is the same criteria to legally possess firearms. I draw your attention to the Gun Control Act of 1968 or 18 USC 922.

You know, those yes/no questions on the 4473 and many State CCW applications. You do know what a BATFE 4473 is don't you?

It's pretty obvious to me that you never were a member of the Link Removed. Did you also take your CCW class from one of those rubber stampers that brought about HB204 in the Utah legislature? :sarcastic:
 

NavyLCDR

New member
The criteria for buying from a FFL is the same criteria to legally possess firearms. I draw your attention to the Gun Control Act of 1968 or 18 USC 922.

You know, those yes/no questions on the 4473 and many State CCW applications. You do know what a BATFE 4473 is don't you?

It's pretty obvious to me that you never were a member of the Link Removed. Did you also take your CCW class from one of those rubber stampers that brought about HB204 in the Utah legislature? :sarcastic:

Well, let me present to you at least one instance where your statements are incorrect. A military spouse lives in Washington state with her husband who has permanent orders to Washington State. She is not required by Washington State, according to Washington Administrative Code, to obtain a Washington State Driver's license. Her "home state" is Wyoming and she has a Wyoming driver's license.

So, according to 27 CFR 478.11, she is not a resident of Wyoming, because she is not present in Wyoming with an intent to make a home there.

State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individual's
State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located.

According to 27 CFR 478.11, she does not have appropriate identification to purchase a firearm from an FFL, as a Washington resident because she has a Wyoming driver's license.
Identification document. A document
containing the name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph of the holder
and which was made or issued by or under
the authority of the United States
Government, a State, political subdivision
of a State, a foreign government, political
subdivision of a foreign government, an
international governmental or an international
quasi-governmental organization
which, when completed with information
concerning a particular individual, is of a
type intended or commonly accepted for
the purpose of identification of individuals.

So, she cannot claim Wyoming on the 4473 as state of residence, because she is not a resident of Wyoming. She cannot provide suitable ID as a Washington resident to support an answer of Washington as state of residency on the 4473. So, by CFR's she is prohibited from purchasing any firearm at an FFL. Yet, she is perfectly legal to obtain a Washington State CPL (and has) and is perfectly legal to purchase firearms in private sales because there are no ID requirements specified for private sales.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Well, let me present to you at least one instance where your statements are incorrect. A military spouse lives in Washington state with her husband who has permanent orders to Washington State. She is not required by Washington State, according to Washington Administrative Code, to obtain a Washington State Driver's license. Her "home state" is Wyoming and she has a Wyoming driver's license.

So, according to 27 CFR 478.11, she is not a resident of Wyoming, because she is not present in Wyoming with an intent to make a home there.

...

According to 27 CFR 478.11, she does not have appropriate identification to purchase a firearm from an FFL, as a Washington resident because she has a Wyoming driver's license.

...

So, she cannot claim Wyoming on the 4473 as state of residence, because she is not a resident of Wyoming. She cannot provide suitable ID as a Washington resident to support an answer of Washington as state of residency on the 4473. So, by CFR's she is prohibited from purchasing any firearm at an FFL. Yet, she is perfectly legal to obtain a Washington State CPL (and has) and is perfectly legal to purchase firearms in private sales because there are no ID requirements specified for private sales.
This case falls under the multiple residency exemption. She can legally buy firearms in WA barring any State laws prohibiting it and in WY. Her military ID, WY DL and her spouse's orders would qualify her to purchase from a WA FFL. Military spouses have the same rights as their active duty spouse under GCA68 with respect to residency. Also WA issues non-resident CPLs providing she is not a prohibited person under State law which includes the GCA68.

If I had a deed to property in WA State and spent a portion of the year residing there, I could legally buy firearms from a WA FFL as well barring any State law issues, handguns included not that I'd want to live there since they have a State prohibition for NFA items. About the only good thing about WA State is there's no State income tax.

The point is you must not be a prohibited person under GCA68 to get a CCW as being a prohibited person under GCA68 is a disqualifying condition in virtually all States. If you are prohibited to possess or purchase by federal law, don't expect to get any CCW.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
This case falls under the multiple residency exemption. She can legally buy firearms in WA barring any State laws prohibiting it and in WY. Her military ID, WY DL and her spouse's orders would qualify her to purchase from a WA FFL.

Respectfully, it is quite obvious since you have not quoted one law that you are discussing things from opinion rather than fact. Military orders and military ID apply to the active duty service member ONLY and not to spouses. The Federal regulation referenced is, again, 27 CFR 478.11:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.

Notice, "member", not spouse or dependent.

ATF's guides to FFL's in the August 2004 FFL Newsletter states this:
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver’s license from
another State, you should list the transferee’s
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.

Again, notice this only applies to the "member", not spouse or dependents.

Yes, you are correct that WA state issues CPL's to non-residents.

Yes you are correct that she could purchase LONG GUNS ONLY from a WA FFL, with a Wyoming driver's license, only IF she could truthfully state that Wyoming was her state of residence, which it is not, because she is not present in Wyoming for any part of the year with the intent of making Wyoming a home. She cannot purchase any firearm from a WA FFL claiming Washington as a state of residence and presenting a Wyoming Driver's License, regardless of her Dependent ID Card and MY orders, because she is NOT an active duty military member.

However, by definition, she is a Washington resident and may purchase both handguns and long guns from other WA state residents.

You have to be able to legally purchase firearms in the US from a FFL before you can consider getting a CCW from any State in the US. Being able to import your firearms from your country is not enough, you have to be able to legally buy here from a FFL.

In regards to the above statement, Federal law requires residency in a state for 90 consecutive days for an alien to be considered legally a resident of that state for the purpose of purchasing firearms from an FFL. However, states that issue CCWs to non state residents, and to persons only legally in the United States but not citizens, would therefore issue a CCW to a legal alien who would be prohibited from purchasing a firearm from an FFL.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Respectfully, it is quite obvious since you have not quoted one law that you are discussing things from opinion rather than fact.
BATFE firearms FAQ B12 cites the CFR.
Military orders and military ID apply to the active duty service member ONLY and not to spouses. The Federal regulation referenced is, again, 27 CFR 478.11:

Notice, "member", not spouse or dependent.

ATF's guides to FFL's in the August 2004 FFL Newsletter states this:

Again, notice this only applies to the "member", not spouse or dependents.

Yes, you are correct that WA state issues CPL's to non-residents.

Yes you are correct that she could purchase LONG GUNS ONLY from a WA FFL, with a Wyoming driver's license, only IF she could truthfully state that Wyoming was her state of residence, which it is not, because she is not present in Wyoming for any part of the year with the intent of making Wyoming a home. She cannot purchase any firearm from a WA FFL claiming Washington as a state of residence and presenting a Wyoming Driver's License, regardless of her Dependent ID Card and MY orders, because she is NOT an active duty military member.
That is used by the FFL to determine residency status, that's why she has the same rights as you to purchase from a FFL. However, WA has an additional State law pertaining to transfers to new residents.
However, by definition, she is a Washington resident and may purchase both handguns and long guns from other WA state residents.

In regards to the above statement, Federal law requires residency in a state for 90 consecutive days for an alien to be considered legally a resident of that state for the purpose of purchasing firearms from an FFL. However, states that issue CCWs to non state residents, and to persons only legally in the United States but not citizens, would therefore issue a CCW to a legal alien who would be prohibited from purchasing a firearm from an FFL.

I draw your attention to the relevant sections of Link Removed.


Alien. Any person not a citizen or national of the United States.

...

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.​
The military ID, copy of her spouse's orders and WY DL should suffice as proof for the FFL that she is indeed residing in WA State during the term of her spouse being stationed in WA. To qualify for the multiple State of residency exemption you must provide documentation to the FFL that you do indeed reside in the State you're in if your DL or ID is not from the State where the transfer is taking place providing there is no State law prohibiting transfers to out of State residents. This is the same documentation you'd provide to the FFL if you were buying the firearm yourself. Example 2 under 27 CFR 478.11 is the relevant example in your case. Yes, the examples are codified within the CFR. With respect to purchasing firearms from a FFL, you and your spouse is both a residents of WA and WY.

The federal 90 day period applies to aliens; persons who are not US citizens or nationals. It does not apply to US citizens. I have included the federal statutory definition of alien under Link Removed.

What you're probably confused about is RCW 9.41.090 which is the waiting period for new and non-residents of WA State. That's different from federal law. That's what's probably keeping you and your spouse from buying handguns in WA State, not federal law. There is no active duty military exemption for RCW 9.41.090.

The only thing keeping me from sending you a bill for this is that I'm not a member of any State bar. I do know from my friends in the shark...uh legal, profession that you'd be buying me at least a stripped AR-15 lower about now for this debate. I could use another Jolly Roger stripped lower from Spike's Tactical for another AR-15 build. :sarcastic:
 

NavyLCDR

New member
The only thing keeping me from sending you a bill for this is that I'm not a member of any State bar. I do know from my friends in the shark...uh legal, profession that you'd be buying me at least a stripped AR-15 lower about now for this debate. I could use another Jolly Roger stripped lower from Spike's Tactical for another AR-15 build. :sarcastic:

That and the fact that most of what you happen to be saying is incorrect, but it isn't worth arguing about any longer here. An FFL will not sell to a military spouse with their dependent ID card and their spouses orders, so it doesn't matter what is written here.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
That and the fact that most of what you happen to be saying is incorrect, but it isn't worth arguing about any longer here.
No it isn't. I have spent more time addressing this issue than doing my federal tax return. You have yet to prove what I have stated is wrong. I have refuted every point you have made with the appropriate references.

If your DL is not issued by the State that the respective FFL is physically located in, the FFL needs to produce the necessary documentation to satisfy any possible BATFE audits or compliance inspections. The FFL may want a copy of the lease, mortgage or housing agreement in addition to your spouse's military ID, State DL and copy of your orders. It depends on the FFL. I do know that in States with major military bases such as Nellis AFB which is here in Vegas, it is not uncommon for Clark and Nye County NV FFLs to sell to military spouses who do not have a NV DL.
An FFL will not sell to a military spouse with their dependent ID card and their spouses orders, so it doesn't matter what is written here.
What you seem to forget is that FFLs do have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason just like any other private business. There's more than enough business for FFLs now given the current political climate. In fact, the firearms industry is one of the few sectors that is making a profit now. Quite a few FFLs do not fully understand what they can and cannot do even if you point out the relevant sections of the BATFE website FAQs, CFRs and USCs because they simply do not wish to potentially risk their license especially given the current Presidential Administration.
 
W

wolfhunter

Guest
I work part time at a gun shop. The only time we refuse a sale to a military spouse is when they either don't pass the background check, or they don't provide a copy of their spouse's PCS orders, a document showing residence (lease or utility bill works), and a photo ID.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I work part time at a gun shop. The only time we refuse a sale to a military spouse is when they either don't pass the background check, or they don't provide a copy of their spouse's PCS orders, a document showing residence (lease or utility bill works), and a photo ID.
Thanks for providing a data point proving my point. Any commentary to this NavyLT? We have an employee of a FFL that confirms they sell to military spouses providing acceptable documentation of residency is provided.
 

torontogunguy

New member
Well, let me present to you at least one instance where your statements are incorrect. A military spouse lives in Washington state with her husband who has permanent orders to Washington State. She is not required by Washington State, according to Washington Administrative Code, to obtain a Washington State Driver's license. Her "home state" is Wyoming and she has a Wyoming driver's license.

So, according to 27 CFR 478.11, she is not a resident of Wyoming, because she is not present in Wyoming with an intent to make a home there.



According to 27 CFR 478.11, she does not have appropriate identification to purchase a firearm from an FFL, as a Washington resident because she has a Wyoming driver's license.


So, she cannot claim Wyoming on the 4473 as state of residence, because she is not a resident of Wyoming. She cannot provide suitable ID as a Washington resident to support an answer of Washington as state of residency on the 4473. So, by CFR's she is prohibited from purchasing any firearm at an FFL. Yet, she is perfectly legal to obtain a Washington State CPL (and has) and is perfectly legal to purchase firearms in private sales because there are no ID requirements specified for private sales.

It is convoluted at best; confusing at worst. Yes, you are a resident of that state in which you intend to make a residence/home. However, consider this... if I am in Kansas and take a hotel room for the night, I have indicated my intention to make Kansas my HOME. But only for that night if I happen to be driving along on holidays. I am a resident of the state that I am in. Some states have gone a step further and state that you are a resident after being there for 30 or 90 days. Some state that I am a resident if I register to vote in that state. And so on. It is about as clear as mud. And THAT is a fact. Without getting into a wetting war and after much telephone discussion with various license issuing agencies.

Here's a corker. I am both a US and a Canadian citizen with residences in both coutries. My tax home and where I work is in Canada. I carry a US passport when entering the USA and must use my Canadian passport when entering Canada. That's the law. It is also the law that I cannot carry on my person while in the USA TWO passports so I get my wife to carry one until we cross the border. Silliness reigns. So, am I part of "We the People? or not?" I have carry permits legally from several states but mostly as a US citizen I believe. And there are some states where I would like very much to protect myself where the law is murky... but I have been told in no uncertain terms "If I am in the state and take a hotel room or stay with a relative and lay my head down.... I am a resident of that state at that particular point in time. Period." Just make sure that there is no 'period of time' associated with the concealed carry laws of the state associated with the eligibility. Like I say, clear as mud.

And so, firstly stating that I do not believe that an American citizen requires any kind of license to possess any kind of firearm ("We the People and the second amendment, etc.) I go along with it as I don't want whackos running around with guns (like the one I met in Orlando last year). Secondly stating the as an American citizen I consider myself part of "We the People" and do not believe that any state or political entity has the right to pre-empt the second amendment. I am entitled to carry - I have no problem getting a permit to do so. Let's just get on with it and let's cut down on the paperwork and make it law that if you have one state's concealed carry permit then you are good to go in ALL states, just like the driver's licenses.

Make sense?
 

torontogunguy

New member
Oh. And with regards to the 90 day residency period. That is a FEDERAL law having to do with the PURCHASE of firearms and has nothing to do with the carrying of firearms per se. Therefore, I can bring my own firearm with me, already owned, without any trouble. Either as a Canadian or as an American citizen. It is the concealed carry permit part that gets confusing where residency is involved as often the statutes simply state "must be a resident" without giving details. Like I said, if I inend to lay my head down to sleep in State X, I am a resident of state X for as long as I am there, statutory law not being to the contrary. That is common law.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Thanks for providing a data point proving my point. Any commentary to this NavyLT? We have an employee of a FFL that confirms they sell to military spouses providing acceptable documentation of residency is provided.

I do not have any commentary on this. BATFE does, however:

Lt.,

It is legal for active duty to obtain a handgun from an FFL using the two items you stated. It states that on the back of the 4473. It does not and will not apply to the spouse. The spouse would have to get an state ID card to show residency.

Nick...
Special Agent/Senior Operations Officer
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive Seattle Field Division
915 Second Ave. Suite 790
Seattle, WA 98174

-----Original Message-----
From: H..., John M LT FRCNW
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:57
To: 'S...., Nicholas'
Subject: FFL sale of handgun to military spouses

Nick,

Thank you for all the help in the past, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my emails and questions!

It is legal for an FFL to sell handguns to an active duty military member based upon their Active Duty Armed Forces ID and permanent orders to a state to verify residency. Does the same apply to military spouses and dependents? Can a spouse/dependent show their dependent ID card and their spouse's orders to verify state of residency an FFL to purchase a handgun?

Thank you again!
Very Respectfully,
LT John H......
Oak Harbor, WA
*******

NOTICE: This electronic transmission is confidential and intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and destroy this message in its entirety (including all attachments).
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I do not have any commentary on this. BATFE does, however:
BATFE does not respond to formal inquiries via e-mail for legal reasons. All responses to formal inquiries they respond back to via US Mail with the supporting legal cites on BATFE letterhead. Those are typically signed off on by much higher brass of BATFE as that can cost them a trial by rendering a legal opinion via e-mail. If you have a buddy in BATFE rendering official opinions which may be against agency policy perhaps we all need to make a phone call or e-mail to BATFE central office and lodge a complaint?

Many States also do not issue State ID cards to temporary or seasonal residents such as active duty military, their spouses or dependants, Nevada being one of them. We have a FFL employee that acknowledges they sell to military spouses without an ID or DL issued by the State they're in. Do you really think this FFL would still be in business with that practice? Remember, all FFLs (except for 03 C&R) get at least one compliance inspection annually.

One of the FFLs I deal with regularly went around with Sheriff Keller on this issue trying to get a NV CFP using his military ID and orders as proof of residency prior Nevada issuing non-resident CFPs. He was stationed at Nellis AFB. The NRS at the time required NV CFP applicants to have a Nevada DL or ID. NV DMV requires you to surrender your other State DL or ID to get one with the exception of the hard to get seasonal NV ID. For States that comply with the federal real ID act, you cannot get their State issued DL or ID without surrendering your previous State's.

Also BATFE has it on their FAQ I have provided a link to that you can be a legal resident of multiple States. How does this buddy of yours explain that issue when a majority of the States will not issue a seasonal ID or DL but yet it is legal for someone to be a legal resident of multiple States in accordance to the CFR?
 

NavyLCDR

New member
I'm done. You believe whatever you want. Whatever you can get an FFL to do, who the heck cares. It's on the FFL at that point, unless you lie on the 4473.
 

Daugherty16

New member
Don't want to enter the fray, but...

One point to the OP - you mentioned carrying in your hotel room and your car. Be very careful about the vehicle. In most states, only (ONLY) CCW holders can carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle. I don't know of a single state that allows a loaded long gun in a vehicle - even on an ATV. You definitely want to do your research on this, if you haven't already (you sound like the type of guy who stays informed)) or consult an attorney. This is one aspect of firearms law that (i think) most state laws agree on.

Possibly i misinterpreted what you said/meant. But vehicle carry even by CCW holders makes a lot of cops nervous - seethe thread about "do you tell". In CT, for example, it's a felony to carry a loaded pistol in your vehicle without a CCW. Of course, its a felony to have a handgun at all without either a certificate or a CCW. If you're otherwise law-abiding and they catch you in a car with a pistol, let alone a loaded pistol, they will nail your hide to the wall.
 

torontogunguy

New member
You need to keep abreast of the state's requirement for US residency as well; and how it is defined. I am having an issue with Florida right at the moment. I am a US citizen living in Canada for the most part but travel a lot like you do and stay with relatives much of the time that I do travel so have several US addresses, per se.

Florida has actually asked me to apply.

If you follow the process for the last updates to their statutes, they were done because of confusion in the term "resident" of the USA. They restated that as meaning either a legal non resident alien or a citizen. Somewhat convoluted.

The gal at the licensing office told me to put down a US address from where I was applying as wherever I happened to be in the US at a given moment, I was a resident at that time.

This is driving me bonkers. I have permits from several other states (non resident) but of course FL does not recognize any non resident permits period. And I am going to curtail my visits and business in FL unless I am able to protect myself and my family when I am there.... last year we had the distinct pleasure of having a huge honking revolver stuck in our noses by some whacko.

What we need is a US Concealed Carry Permit. Sorry guys. Requirements? Not a whacko. Not a criminal. Over 21. Citizen or legal resident. That's it.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
What we need is a US Concealed Carry Permit. Sorry guys. Requirements? Not a whacko. Not a criminal. Over 21. Citizen or legal resident. That's it.

Over 18, 17 with parental permission, would be nice. Old enough to die protecting others in your country, you should be old enough to protect yourself in that country.
 

torontogunguy

New member
BATFE firearms FAQ B12 cites the CFR.

That is used by the FFL to determine residency status, that's why she has the same rights as you to purchase from a FFL. However, WA has an additional State law pertaining to transfers to new residents.


I draw your attention to the relevant sections of Link Removed.


Alien. Any person not a citizen or national of the United States.

...

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.​
The military ID, copy of her spouse's orders and WY DL should suffice as proof for the FFL that she is indeed residing in WA State during the term of her spouse being stationed in WA. To qualify for the multiple State of residency exemption you must provide documentation to the FFL that you do indeed reside in the State you're in if your DL or ID is not from the State where the transfer is taking place providing there is no State law prohibiting transfers to out of State residents. This is the same documentation you'd provide to the FFL if you were buying the firearm yourself. Example 2 under 27 CFR 478.11 is the relevant example in your case. Yes, the examples are codified within the CFR. With respect to purchasing firearms from a FFL, you and your spouse is both a residents of WA and WY.

The federal 90 day period applies to aliens; persons who are not US citizens or nationals. It does not apply to US citizens. I have included the federal statutory definition of alien under Link Removed.

What you're probably confused about is RCW 9.41.090 which is the waiting period for new and non-residents of WA State. That's different from federal law. That's what's probably keeping you and your spouse from buying handguns in WA State, not federal law. There is no active duty military exemption for RCW 9.41.090.

The only thing keeping me from sending you a bill for this is that I'm not a member of any State bar. I do know from my friends in the shark...uh legal, profession that you'd be buying me at least a stripped AR-15 lower about now for this debate. I could use another Jolly Roger stripped lower from Spike's Tactical for another AR-15 build. :sarcastic:


OK. So here's a good question. I am an American citizen presently owning a home in Canada. I do not own a home stateside at present. However, being pretty much retired we spend much time travelling in the states, hauling a house trailer and staying with friends and relatives. QUESTION: During the time that I am in Toronto I am obviously a resident of Toronto. During the time that I am staying with a friend or relative or hunkering down in a trailer park for a few weeks in, say, New York State, am I a resident of NYS for the purposes of applying for a non-resident permit from a state that issues non-resident permits and asks "are you legally residing in the United States?" or "Are you presently residing in the United States"?

To answer my own question; I would think that travelling about so much, wherever I happen to park my trailer, whatever relative I am staying with, whatever house I have rented for a month or two.... THAT is my current residence and I am at that particular time a resident of the United States, no?

Again, I am an a American Citizen, retired for all intents and purposes, and make my 'home' wherever I happen to set up for a few weeks, which changes on a regular basis. I have a United States birth certificate and a United States passport and consider myself, according to the Constitution, to be one of "WE THE PEOPLE".

Everything I read and all conversations I have with state issuing agencies seem to indicate that all I need to do is put down a U.S. address (excluding a PO Box) where the application form asks for my residence as at that particular moment in time I am in the United States legally and am legally a residing in the USA.

I just want to avoid hot water as I have permits from states that do not ask if I am legally residing in the USA; only if I am a US citizen, to which I answer YES and forward a copy of my passport. There are a few states, however, that do not recognize non-resident permits from other states and I would like to be able to carry in those states... comments?

Oh. One other thing. I have yet to purchase a pistol in the USA as it is a nightmare bringing it across the US/Canada border. Firstly, the US demands an export permit which is a hassle. Also, I want to be able to use my handguns on either side of the border, so they all comply with Canadian law as well as US law; the magazines are within the proscribed limits (i.e. ten rounds for a handgun); the barrel length is over 4.25"; etc. SO.... purchasing a handgun in the USA is of no concern to me. I regularly cross the border with my handguns and have never had an issue going in either direction as my documentation is all in order and presented all the time, etc. My issue is only with being able to carry concealed in those few states that demand US residency in addition to US citizenship.

PS - There are a few states that WILL issue to non-citizens. You are going to have to do some digging as I forget which states those are and the laws may have changed.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
OK. So here's a good question. I am an American citizen presently owning a home in Canada. I do not own a home stateside at present. However, being pretty much retired we spend much time travelling in the states, hauling a house trailer and staying with friends and relatives.

QUESTION: During the time that I am in Toronto I am obviously a resident of Toronto. During the time that I am staying with a friend or relative or hunkering down in a trailer park for a few weeks in, say, New York State, am I a resident of NYS for the purposes of applying for a non-resident permit from a state that issues non-resident permits and asks "are you legally residing in the United States?" or "Are you presently residing in the United States"?
Many of them do ask for a copy of your State issued DL or ID; Nevada and Utah do.
To answer my own question; I would think that travelling about so much, wherever I happen to park my trailer, whatever relative I am staying with, whatever house I have rented for a month or two.... THAT is my current residence and I am at that particular time a resident of the United States, no?
Nope, it's one of the criteria I have listed below. The defacto criteria being the jurisdiction that issued your State DL or ID.
...

There are a few states, however, that do not recognize non-resident permits from other states and I would like to be able to carry in those states... comments?
You can't. You can forget CCW in CO, MI and SC. You can CCW in FL and NH if you get their respective CCW. Also keep in mind that the most likely encounter with a LEO is during a traffic stop. I'm assuming you have a Canadian DL which would immediately put you in the classification as being a non-resident for any CCW you may hold.
PS - There are a few states that WILL issue to non-citizens. You are going to have to do some digging as I forget which states those are and the laws may have changed.
Your State of residency for all practical purposes falls under one or more of the following;

  • State that issues your DL or ID (also the criteria a LEO uses)
  • State where you're registered to vote
  • State where you pay State income tax
  • State where you have filed a declaration of homestead
Keep in mind that during an official encounter with a LEO what will determine residency is the jurisdiction that issued your DL.

The best option for you is to get a US residence and make that your State side domicile and get their DL. Best choice would be probably Florida as you have no State income tax there and their CCW has high recognition and reciprocity. Another option for high recognition and reciprocity but closer to Canada is Michigan. However you have State income tax there. Another option would be a virtual shall issue county in NY State. However you'd probably have to stay in the county for an extended period of time. Also keep in mind unless you have a NY permit you cannot legally touch a firearm while in that State except passing through. The moment you stop in NY you are in violation of the NY penal code and are not afforded any of the protections of the FOPA or Link Removed.
 

hibby76

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Utah allows you to carry in the most states. You might look into seeing if a Utah permit would suit your purposes and then contact the Utah BCI (Bureau of Criminal Identification) and see what they have to say.

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