Called local mall about gun free zone

[HK4U]

I called Grapevine Mills Mall in Grapevine Texas yesterday. I left a message on their managements answering machine. I asked in light of the shooting at a "Gun Free Zone" mall in Omaha if they were going to rethink ther policy at their mall. I reminded them that by denying CHL holders the right to carry at their mall they had assumed full responsability for our safety and in case of an attack at their mall they were leaving themselves open for a law suit. If they do not call me back I will contact them again. I intend to get a reply from them. I will let you know of their answer.

 

[DrLewall]

I too sent off an email to the Security manager at the mall here in Northwest Arkansas asking what the mall policy was on conceal carry. I have not heard back from him as of tonight, not even sure if I will. If I have not heard back by next monday, I will call the mall office and see if I can get some answers.

 

[DrDavidM]

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Even if you get a negative response the mall knows they may be losing customers due to their policies

 

[skipjack_1st]

See my post is the "shooting at mall" thread. Probably the same issue.

 

[ecocks]

I have to say

that I appreciate you being assertive on this issue. A few years ago it seemed like everyone was always whining that we should be pussyfooting around these questions. Many would say, "Oh NO! Don't call the business and ask or they will post and then what will you do?" My answer is basically that I won't shop there unless absolutely essential if that is their policy. I have turned down money at least 3 times because the only payment option was through Pay-Pal and I refuse to use them due to their policies regarding firearms and magazines sales. If we don't let businesses know that it costs them business (and mean it) then they will assume that the only people who are offended by their policy are the vocal anti-gun advocates who threaten and bluster. It is the same as being quiet around politicians and letting them think their stance doesn't cost them your votes.

Understand, I don't mean that you should stage a scene in the local Wal-Mart or mall, but instead make clear to owners/managers of posted businesses or those which make inadequate postings in a polite, rational statement that they are losing your business as a result of their policies.

 

[DJ58]

don't they have to post at the entrances of the malls if you cannot carry, or any bussiness for that matter

 

[JC40]

don't they have to post at the entrances of the malls if you cannot carry, or any bussiness for that matter

Ranger.I would imagine the sign would have to be posted at the enterance to the store so anyone entering, would be able see the sign and read it before entering.I have been told by people that our local walmart has a "no gun" policy, and i looked all over the front of the store as well as when you first walk in and i couldn`t find any sign that prohibits CC.I am however interested in where the business would required to legally post the sign if they do choose to be a no carry store.

 

[DJ58]

I have looked at one of are walmart stores also and did't see anything, so just went ahead and did my shopping

 

[ecocks]

Posting

As far as I know all states require posting for businesses unless they are specifically restricted areas according to state laws (churches, banks, police stations, courts, etc.) or where they have prohibited CC completely. A couple of states require you to disclose to private individuals that you are carrying and secure their permission that it is okay with them to enter their home while carrying. In almost all states, even if not posted, the company has the right to request you to leave but loses the right to prosecute unless you defy their request. The problems come from the businesses where management or employees make verbal statements saying it is against policy or they have not posted in accordance with applicable law. Some states require the posting to have exact wording of certain sizes, in certain locations (particularly entrances) and/or contain the referenced statute number. Businesses and university campuses (and malls) were notorious for putting restrictions on their matriculation or employment policies but not posting legal signage on their building(s). In reality, many businesses with parking lots, multiple entrances and public accesses don't post properly. There have also been the fun incidents where the employee/manager decides you violated the law (and their company's policy) and proceeds to call the police, creating a major incident.

The incident that best exemplifies the last point was 2 years ago (almost to the day) at a Best Buy in Indiana which threatened to disarm a lawfully carrying customer when he was challenged at the door to "show what was hidden under his coat." The location was not posted, a security guard verbally threatened to take the weapon off the guy's belt, the customer warned him that would not be a smart move, the manager called the police and...the police warned the manager about posting the premises properly if guns were not allowed and suggested to the security guard that he needed more training. They also advised the guard that if he ever tried to take a gun off of somebody lawfully carrying it would most likely be deemed an assault and he could be shot by the customer, AND THEN arrested if he lived. That BB and a couple of others in that area were then posted for a couple of days but the flap went to corporate, the signs came down and some sort of settlement was reached with the CC customer pretty quickly. The Wal-Marts used to have problems with this due to inconsistent employee training and rotation of employees to the sporting goods department where they didn't know what to do when a customer was buying guns, holsters, ammo or cleaning kits and they realized the customer had a gun on their belt.

 

[Puppy]

Ranger.I would imagine the sign would have to be posted at the enterance to the store so anyone entering, would be able see the sign and read it before entering.I have been told by people that our local walmart has a "no gun" policy, and i looked all over the front of the store as well as when you first walk in and i couldn`t find any sign that prohibits CC.I am however interested in where the business would required to legally post the sign if they do choose to be a no carry store.

If your local Wal-Mart is posted call corporate. That does not conform to corporate policy. I have been in 3 Wal-Marts in Kansas and none are posted.

 

[sailor]

Posted

Both Wal Mart stores locally are NOT posted, but the lone Sam's Club is. We do use all three, as need dictates. I have emailed both the Wal Mart corp. office, and Sam's Club. I do not know how interconnected the two are, except I believe Wal Mart outright owns Sam's Club (or not?). I want to know if Sam's Club is autonomous, and has a different corporate policy, or is this a local managers decision. Does Costco have a corporate policy on CCW? We anticipate new construction by Costco locally, soon. Competition is always a good thing!
sailor

 

[KimberPB]

Props HK! Please let us all know the out come.

You know many things have changed or became law because the few were louder then the many. As concealed carry becomes more and more popular maybe it time for us to start speaking up. The more people that bring it to these companies attention and the more attacks that happen at these so called "Gun Free Zones" might just start waking people up.

 

[LDaniel]

In Texas, The business is required to have a sign that states "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun" at all points of entry.
It has to be 1" high letters and be both in English and spanish. That makes for a large sign. They are not valid on state government owned or leased buildings, or a subdivision of state government. (except for Places weapons are prohibited, courts,government meetings, polling places, race tracks,etc.). Which is weird, Gun shows are in either a county owned or city owned building here in Houston and they put that sign at the entry. I have rejoined the Sheriff's Reserves so I don't have to deal with it, since Texas peace officers are tech. on duty 24/7.

 

[kwo51]

Yes section 3006 good number for a no gun permit. I wounder what 1911 is?

 

[HK4U]

They never returned my call so I called again. This time I talked to a live person. I was told that she did not know what if any changes would be made and that my question would be sent to the corporate office and they would have to make any changes. In other words, nothing will be done. Why am I not supprised?

 

[HK4U]

I received this answer to my questions after I sent an e-mail today. I sent them another e-mail and told them their policy to keep shoppers safe does not work, that Omaha and the mall in AZ was a test testimony to that.


[email protected] wrote: Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry regarding company policy on the possession of firearms on mall property.

Possession of any weapon at Grapevine Mills, whether concealed or displayed openly, is in violation of mall policy. This policy is intended first and foremost to maintain a safe, secure and comfortable environment at Grapevine Mills, which has always been our top priority, and to avoid any situation that could potentially place at risk the safety of our shoppers and employees.

Grapevine Mills is private property, and like virtually every other facility in the community that is accessible by the public, ownership/management has the right to prohibit the possession of weapons, both displayed or concealed, other than licensed weapons carried by law enforcement personnel.

We recognize that everyone does not endorse such a policy. However, it is the one our company embraces and enforces at each of our properties and which we believe is in the best interest of those who work and visit there.

 

[ecocks]

So then

it seems like a logical next step would be to identify all those Simon Properties (as well as others) whose corporate policy clearly fails to offer even the option of self-protection to their customers and employees of clients despite their observance of the laws of the states and municipalities where they operate. I would consider it a community service to post a list of those malls which post their property and continue to insist this makes them "...a safe, secure and comfortable environment..." despite placing at risk the safety of their shoppers and employees.

By the way, another Simon Property you may have heard of is Tacoma Mall, Tacoma, WA (where at least two legitimate CHL holders were carrying on the day of their shooting event) and you may know of still another former Simon property, Trolley Square in Salt Lake City, UT, which was sold approximately six months prior to the shooting earlier this year.

I think I will drop a line to RCesare with one shopper's thoughts on this matter.

 

[HK4U]

Simon Properties

it seems like a logical next step would be to identify all those Simon Properties (as well as others) whose corporate policy clearly fails to offer even the option of self-protection to their customers and employees of clients despite their observance of the laws of the states and municipalities where they operate. I would consider it a community service to post a list of those malls which post their property and continue to insist this makes them "...a safe, secure and comfortable environment..." despite placing at risk the safety of their shoppers and employees.

By the way, another Simon Property you may have heard of is Tacoma Mall, Tacoma, WA (where at least two legitimate CHL holders were carrying on the day of their shooting event) and you may know of still another former Simon property, Trolley Square in Salt Lake City, UT, which was sold approximately six months prior to the shooting earlier this year.

I think I will drop a line to RCesare with one shopper's thoughts on this matter.

Yep, it sounds like Simon Properties are good places to stay away from.

 

[ecocks]

Fyi

You can drop Mr. Cesare a line along with DSimon (Chairman/CEO) and RSokolov (President/COO). They thoughtfully provide you email links off of their corporate website in the investor relations section. Anyone happen to own any shares of this company?

Oddly, there is nothing in their Press Releases section about the Westroads Mall.

Guess they don't have any Big 5, SW, Bass or other sporting goods stores which sell firearms in their facilities?

Seems like I had a few shares of General Growth Properties in an account somewhere, may have to look them over and see what they are doing at their malls...

 

[Ektarr]

Find a Simon Mall near you...!

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