California, the Second Amendment, and You


JeanP

New member
Been reading (and re-reading) the posts on this forum about our state's treatment of the Second Amendment and our right to "keep and bear arms". One thing keeps coming to my attention....there are a lot of people, both residents and non-residents, of our state who keep whining about how unfair it all is. And, they are right. However, I have a few questions for them.

1. Are you a registered voter? Why not?
2. Do you vote in every election? Why not?
3. Before you vote, do you do any research about who and what you are voting for or against? Why not?
4. Do you belong to any pro gun organizations like NRA, California Rifle and Pistol Association, Firearms Policy Coalition? Why not?
5. Do you donate money or volunteer for any of these fine organizations? Why not?
6. Or do you just sit back in your recliner and bemoan the fact that this state is going down the drain and wish you could leave it?

People, if you answered No to questions 1 through 5, you are part of the problem. So be sure you have a really comfortable recliner.
The reason we have the state government we have is because not enough of us vote. We don't do our research and end up voting for the first pretty face we see. By not voting, we have allowed San Francisco, Los Angeles and Sacramento liberals to have all the control.

I'll get off my soap box now. I have to go make some phone calls to my legislators and governor to let them know that I am a gun owner and I vote.
 

Been reading (and re-reading) the posts on this forum about our state's treatment of the Second Amendment and our right to "keep and bear arms". One thing keeps coming to my attention....there are a lot of people, both residents and non-residents, of our state who keep whining about how unfair it all is. And, they are right. However, I have a few questions for them.

And those of us who keep telling the truth keep hearing people who can't (or won't) accept it call us whiners.

1. Are you a registered voter? Why not?

Nope, not anymore. Was registered before we moved to a new county, but took the opportunity to not volunteer any more information to government than absolutely necessary when we came here a year+ ago.

2. Do you vote in every election? Why not?

Nope. Don't vote in any elections anymore. Why? Because it's a corrupt system that forces one to choose between two (or more) either already-corrupted, or easily-corruptible, candidates, and I refuse to feel obligated or shamed into participating in the criminal enterprise otherwise known as "government."

3. Before you vote, do you do any research about who and what you are voting for or against? Why not?

Not anymore, but I used to. I've been a biker for as long as I can remember. Researched Pete Wilson when CA's helmet law was being bandied about. He promised bikers every chance he got that he would veto any helmet law that passed right up to the weekend that more than 100,000 of us showed up at the Capitol Bldg. to hold him to that promise. He even came out, took to the podium, reasserted his promise that the helmet bill that just passed and would be on his desk the following Monday morning, would indeed be vetoed. More than 75% of us left Sacramento Saturday afternoon after he said that. Big mistake. All day Sunday Wilson was deluged with Dems and insurance lobbyists and every motorcycle-hating cretin that could make it to the Capitol, and Monday morning's promised veto ceremony morphed into a signing ceremony approximately 36 hours after promising 100,000 of his constituents for at least the 100th time that he would veto the bill.

Here in Alabama, my federal Representative knew me by name and usually turned the other way when he saw me comin'. I printed my own pamphlets and evaluations of bills he sponsored or supported and distributed them as hand-outs, through the mail, provided stacks for businesses that agreed to put them on their counters near their cash registers, whatever I could do. I picketed his office when he voted the wrong way on issues important to me. I even made a point of tracking him down when I went to D.C. to protest ObamaCare in 2010 and told him I would redouble my efforts against him if he fell on the wrong side of the fence he was sitting on re: his vote for the ACA. Whether his fence-sitting was a ploy to stave off pressure from his Democrat colleagues, or he just didn't want to see me out in front of his home office anymore is an unanswered question, but he did vote against the ACA. He got defeated the following cycle and replaced with a Tea-Party-supported Republican who immediately voted for Pelosi for Speaker, supported every round of quantitative easing, voted for HR 327, NDAA, renewing the UnPatriot Act and on and on and on. Basically joined the establishment after convincing the well-intentioned, but otherwise wholly ineffective Tea Party to support him.

I no longer do research or activism against (or for) candidates because it's a total waste of time, money and energy, all three of which I contributed way more than my fair share of and have nothing at all to show for it. That's not a "whine," that's a stone-cold fact.

4. Do you belong to any pro gun organizations like NRA, California Rifle and Pistol Association, Firearms Policy Coalition? Why not?

By total coincidence, I found myself at a local (Palos Verdes) ACLU meeting in 1974 or '75 where the first (maybe second) draft of Prop 15 was being scrutinized for a vote within the Chapter on whether or not to support it. They voted to support it against my lone vociferous objections, and we parted ways that day. As such, I may actually be the very first opponent to Prop 15 in CA. I was truly "ground floor" in both my knowledge of it and my active opposition to it. It was around five years later before I heard of it again as ACLU and other anti-gun orgs started publishing their support for getting it on the '82 ballot, which they managed to do. I joined the NRA as a broke musician in either '80 or '81 when I first started hearing rumblings about it again, and I'll give credit where credit is due, with their help, Prop 15 was defeated in Nov. of '82. If you look at that link however, the only credit given for its defeat is to the NRA. I was as deeply involved in Prop 15's defeat as any other individual or organization, and I never once saw or heard from an NRA rep. Oh, I got tons of membership renewal notices that said how hard they were fighting against Prop 15, but I never saw anyone from the NRA actually fighting. No reps at planning meetings. No reps giving speeches at rallies. Nothing. They are credited with spending $5 million against the prop, and that was indeed a lot of money back in those days. But the only thing I know for sure that they spent the money on was recruiting new members and renewing current members. I'm sure a legal brief here and there was generated from Fairfax, VA, but I know I averaged a couple mailings per month in the ~two years I was in the fight, all of them slick, glossy and expensive come-ons, so I'm betting that every piece of membership-drive mail that went out during that time period counted towards their "$5 million against CA Proposition 15" and was likely the bulk of their expenses in that fight.

Since that time, I have become painfully aware of just how anti-gun-rights the NRA actually is. There are smaller .orgs today that promote some version of Second Amendment advocacy that I could support in good conscience, but they're all just as ineffective as voting is, so why bother? (It's a rhetorical question.)

5. Do you donate money or volunteer for any of these fine organizations? Why not?

Not on your life! Because just like voting for Congress-critters and presidents who will continue to send my money down a rat-hole that ends at totalitarianism and tyranny is a total waste of my hard-earned resources, so too is the NRA for reasons previously explained (and linked, and proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be true). The smaller .orgs may be well-intentioned enough, even high-principled enough, but they're nonetheless ineffective. If I'm going to waste my money on something, it'll be something I enjoy, like putting gas in the scooter, and following the front wheel wherever it may take me just for the pure pleasure and freedom of the experience. My only excuse for wasting the tens of thousands of dollars I've spent on political activism or Second Amendment advocacy is that I was young and dumb and didn't know any better. I no longer have that excuse, and nobody who reads the links in this post will have that excuse anymore either. I predict that very few will read or try to understand them though, so-deceived are the masses by politicians and the NRA that they are seemingly psychologically programmed to deny truth and accept lies. I will never understand it.

6. Or do you just sit back in your recliner and bemoan the fact that this state is going down the drain and wish you could leave it?

Left almost a quarter of a century ago. Don't own a recliner, but I do own a small piece of Heaven on Earth that I call "Dead Cell Holler" because we're so far out and deep down in a creek holler that our cell phones can't get a signal without special equipment installed in the house. You'll have a very difficult time of trying to make me feel shame for ordering our lives according to what (and where) makes us happy, but you go ahead and keep trying.

People, if you answered No to questions 1 through 5, you are part of the problem.

When there is no solution, then I guess everyone is part of the problem, including you. Unless you can articulate actual political solutions to the degradation/destruction of individual and states rights that have been incrementally taking over this country for over 150 years, then setting yourself apart from, or above, all the other parts of "the problem" is just blowin' self-absorbed smoke. You don't matter to The Powers That Be. Your vote doesn't matter to TPTB. Your hopes and your dreams don't matter to TPTB. I and my wife don't matter in those respects either. Nobody does. The Constitution is already dead and even the greatest (metaphorical) doctor on the planet can't resuscitate it.

With that in mind, a better way to put it is, "If you're not doing everything you can to dislodge yourself from government and spend what little time you have left on this Earth enjoying and finding fulfillment in your life, then you are wholly "the problem" in your own life."

The reason we have the state government we have is because not enough of us vote. We don't do our research and end up voting for the first pretty face we see. By not voting, we have allowed San Francisco, Los Angeles and Sacramento liberals to have all the control.

That is 100%, verifiably just not true. You maintain the same political problem that New Yorkers have - your population centers are liberal to the bone. They control the political power in CA by a wide majority that all the conservative votes in the rural counties cannot and will never overcome. Just like the population centers of America acquiesced to a commie-raised, muslim-centric, globalist progressive interloper for two terms as President, your population centers brought back one of the most liberal Governors in the history of history, Jerry Brown. There aren't enough conservatives in CA to oust the liberal bent of the masses. You haven't "allowed" San Fran, LA and Sac to have all the control, they hold control by virtue of having millions more voters than conservatives will ever have there. That's just the plain truth.

I'll get off my soap box now. I have to go make some phone calls to my legislators and governor to let them know that I am a gun owner and I vote.

I hate to break it to you, but none of them will be shaking in their boots when you deliver that implied, though nonetheless empty, threat.

Blues
 
And those of us who keep telling the truth keep hearing people who can't (or won't) accept it call us whiners.



Nope, not anymore. Was registered before we moved to a new county, but took the opportunity to not volunteer any more information to government than absolutely necessary when we came here a year+ ago.



Nope. Don't vote in any elections anymore. Why? Because it's a corrupt system that forces one to choose between two (or more) either already-corrupted, or easily-corruptible, candidates, and I refuse to feel obligated or shamed into participating in the criminal enterprise otherwise known as "government."



Not anymore, but I used to. I've been a biker for as long as I can remember. Researched Pete Wilson when CA's helmet law was being bandied about. He promised bikers every chance he got that he would veto any helmet law that passed right up to the weekend that more than 100,000 of us showed up at the Capitol Bldg. to hold him to that promise. He even came out, took to the podium, reasserted his promise that the helmet bill that just passed and would be on his desk the following Monday morning, would indeed be vetoed. More than 75% of us left Sacramento Saturday afternoon after he said that. Big mistake. All day Sunday Wilson was deluged with Dems and insurance lobbyists and every motorcycle-hating cretin that could make it to the Capitol, and Monday morning's promised veto ceremony morphed into a signing ceremony approximately 36 hours after promising 100,000 of his constituents for at least the 100th time that he would veto the bill.

Here in Alabama, my federal Representative knew me by name and usually turned the other way when he saw me comin'. I printed my own pamphlets and evaluations of bills he sponsored or supported and distributed them as hand-outs, through the mail, provided stacks for businesses that agreed to put them on their counters near their cash registers, whatever I could do. I picketed his office when he voted the wrong way on issues important to me. I even made a point of tracking him down when I went to D.C. to protest ObamaCare in 2010 and told him I would redouble my efforts against him if he fell on the wrong side of the fence he was sitting on re: his vote for the ACA. Whether his fence-sitting was a ploy to stave off pressure from his Democrat colleagues, or he just didn't want to see me out in front of his home office anymore is an unanswered question, but he did vote against the ACA. He got defeated the following cycle and replaced with a Tea-Party-supported Republican who immediately voted for Pelosi for Speaker, supported every round of quantitative easing, voted for HR 327, NDAA, renewing the UnPatriot Act and on and on and on. Basically joined the establishment after convincing the well-intentioned, but otherwise wholly ineffective Tea Party to support him.

I no longer do research or activism against (or for) candidates because it's a total waste of time, money and energy, all three of which I contributed way more than my fair share of and have nothing at all to show for it. That's not a "whine," that's a stone-cold fact.



By total coincidence, I found myself at a local (Palos Verdes) ACLU meeting in 1974 or '75 where the first (maybe second) draft of Prop 15 was being scrutinized for a vote within the Chapter on whether or not to support it. They voted to support it against my lone vociferous objections, and we parted ways that day. As such, I may actually be the very first opponent to Prop 15 in CA. I was truly "ground floor" in both my knowledge of it and my active opposition to it. It was around five years later before I heard of it again as ACLU and other anti-gun orgs started publishing their support for getting it on the '82 ballot, which they managed to do. I joined the NRA as a broke musician in either '80 or '81 when I first started hearing rumblings about it again, and I'll give credit where credit is due, with their help, Prop 15 was defeated in Nov. of '82. If you look at that link however, the only credit given for its defeat is to the NRA. I was as deeply involved in Prop 15's defeat as any other individual or organization, and I never once saw or heard from an NRA rep. Oh, I got tons of membership renewal notices that said how hard they were fighting against Prop 15, but I never saw anyone from the NRA actually fighting. No reps at planning meetings. No reps giving speeches at rallies. Nothing. They are credited with spending $5 million against the prop, and that was indeed a lot of money back in those days. But the only thing I know for sure that they spent the money on was recruiting new members and renewing current members. I'm sure a legal brief here and there was generated from Fairfax, VA, but I know I averaged a couple mailings per month in the ~two years I was in the fight, all of them slick, glossy and expensive come-ons, so I'm betting that every piece of membership-drive mail that went out during that time period counted towards their "$5 million against CA Proposition 15" and was likely the bulk of their expenses in that fight.

Since that time, I have become painfully aware of just how anti-gun-rights the NRA actually is. There are smaller .orgs today that promote some version of Second Amendment advocacy that I could support in good conscience, but they're all just as ineffective as voting is, so why bother? (It's a rhetorical question.)



Not on your life! Because just like voting for Congress-critters and presidents who will continue to send my money down a rat-hole that ends at totalitarianism and tyranny is a total waste of my hard-earned resources, so too is the NRA for reasons previously explained (and linked, and proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be true). The smaller .orgs may be well-intentioned enough, even high-principled enough, but they're nonetheless ineffective. If I'm going to waste my money on something, it'll be something I enjoy, like putting gas in the scooter, and following the front wheel wherever it may take me just for the pure pleasure and freedom of the experience. My only excuse for wasting the tens of thousands of dollars I've spent on political activism or Second Amendment advocacy is that I was young and dumb and didn't know any better. I no longer have that excuse, and nobody who reads the links in this post will have that excuse anymore either. I predict that very few will read or try to understand them though, so-deceived are the masses by politicians and the NRA that they are seemingly psychologically programmed to deny truth and accept lies. I will never understand it.



Left almost a quarter of a century ago. Don't own a recliner, but I do own a small piece of Heaven on Earth that I call "Dead Cell Holler" because we're so far out and deep down in a creek holler that our cell phones can't get a signal without special equipment installed in the house. You'll have a very difficult time of trying to make me feel shame for ordering our lives according to what (and where) makes us happy, but you go ahead and keep trying.



When there is no solution, then I guess everyone is part of the problem, including you. Unless you can articulate actual political solutions to the degradation/destruction of individual and states rights that have been incrementally taking over this country for over 150 years, then setting yourself apart from, or above, all the other parts of "the problem" is just blowin' self-absorbed smoke. You don't matter to The Powers That Be. Your vote doesn't matter to TPTB. Your hopes and your dreams don't matter to TPTB. I and my wife don't matter in those respects either. Nobody does. The Constitution is already dead and even the greatest (metaphorical) doctor on the planet can't resuscitate it.

With that in mind, a better way to put it is, "If you're not doing everything you can to dislodge yourself from government and spend what little time you have left on this Earth enjoying and finding fulfillment in your life, then you are wholly "the problem" in your own life."



That is 100%, verifiably just not true. You maintain the same political problem that New Yorkers have - your population centers are liberal to the bone. They control the political power in CA by a wide majority that all the conservative votes in the rural counties cannot and will never overcome. Just like the population centers of America acquiesced to a commie-raised, muslim-centric, globalist progressive interloper for two terms as President, your population centers brought back one of the most liberal Governors in the history of history, Jerry Brown. There aren't enough conservatives in CA to oust the liberal bent of the masses. You haven't "allowed" San Fran, LA and Sac to have all the control, they hold control by virtue of having millions more voters than conservatives will ever have there. That's just the plain truth.



I hate to break it to you, but none of them will be shaking in their boots when you deliver that implied, though nonetheless empty, threat.

Blues


^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hello, I have never been fond of the American (that is to say USA) election process. I don't think that the representative system of government (which is fairly antiquated) serves the needs of the people very well (at least not in its current form - take for example the electoral college, or the notion of Electors as are described in the 12th Amendment), and to be quite frank I think people may well be better served by voluntaryistic or (in the context of use of modern technology) anarcho-capitalistic or crypto-anarchistic approaches which are in fact quite similar to the philosophy of many Patriots during the time of the American Revolution. Observe, if you will, the development over time of what is now more than a 10 trillion dollar "shadow economy," or SystemD, bigger than many nations' economies put together. Many of us are a part of such a 'SystemD' which is becoming more and more a normal and growing part of people's economic existence. Still, I am an ardent defender of the notion of Constitutional rights (though I assert that for them to mean anything they must be exercised - and defended). One wonders in reflection upon this what happened to the Jeffersonian style of Republicanism.

Thomas Jefferson wrote on the state of party politics in the early 1820s:

An opinion prevails that there is no longer any distinction, that the republicans & Federalists are completely amalgamated but it is not so. The amalgamation is of name only, not of principle. All indeed call themselves by the name of Republicans, because that of Federalists was extinguished in the battle of New Orleans. But the truth is that finding that monarchy is a desperate wish in this country, they rally to the point which they think next best, a consolidated government. Their aim is now therefore to break down the rights reserved by the constitution to the states as a bulwark against that consolidation, the fear of which produced the whole of the opposition to the constitution at its birth. Hence new Republicans in Congress, preaching the doctrines of the old Federalists, and the new nick-names of Ultras and Radicals. But I trust they will fail under the new, as the old name, and that the friends of the real constitution and union will prevail against consolidation, as they have done against monarchism. I scarcely know myself which is most to be deprecated, a consolidation, or dissolution of the states. The horrors of both are beyond the reach of human foresight.

It is as though he was here speaking amongst us today.

I also encourage you all to read Thomas Jefferson's various thoughts on the Military and the Militia and the dangers of a standing army. His thoughts are most enlightening and I think most people should read up on their history particularly in these times when we have become lazy and over-reliant upon a standing army. You can read more on this subject here - please share this link with others:
Link Removed
It comes from a list of over 2,700 quotations from Jefferson categorized into various subjects (link below). This is something the schools do not want your kids to know so you are going to have to teach it to your young ones yourselves.
Link Removed

More specifically on politics and voting, I realize it is not the object of this forum to specify what Presidential candidates one should vote for.

I will say, however, that despite my misgivings about the American (USA) political process, I have tried to remain engaged... I have remained a registered voter since I was of voting age and have explored possibilities within different parties, not being tied to any particular one. This particular political season, I have decided, however, that I cannot both follow my principles and ethics while also voting for any of the presidential candidates in any of the parties, and therefore I cannot vote for any of the candidates for President or Vice President. I believe in particular that both the candidates of the two major political parties present an imminent threat to our country's rights and liberties.

I probably would have registered NPP (No Party Preference) here in CA but that currently only allows you to vote:
American Independent Party
Democratic Party
Libertarian Party
And I want to be able to vote for Republican candidates as well.

My votes therefore will focus on what I can do within the state of California to try to "cast a vote" in California's primary against politicians who have attacked our rights and in favor of those who have defended our rights. In the State Assembly and Senate this is an obvious choice and the FPC makes the choice plain to see:

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/alerts/fpc-releases-2015-california-legislative-grades/

When you see the breakdown of how Democratic legislators vote (if you follow their votes and don't just look at the legislative grades) you see that they consistently attack our rights.
We need to replace them and get as many of them out of the State legislature as possible (and replace them with Republicans that have been on record as defending the 2nd Amendment) and that's what I'll be doing with my vote. (For those of you who are registered voters in California and have chosen some other party, I respect your choice but I must assert that we need to remove as many Democrats from office as possible via the June 7 2016 primary and the November election, and there is no question about it.)

I am also working on some other things related to rights protection... for which I hopefully will soon have some more news - for details,

see: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/cali...any-further-anti-gun-bills-ca.html#post597627
 
This is directed to "BluesStringer": Well, I guess you told me. I guess I touched a nerve. That being said, I will admit to being part of the problem. In the past, I sat by and didn't pay attention to what was going on politically in this state (CA). I had blinders on and couldn't believe that our so called leaders would actively work to take away our rights. I did not understand how the Second Amendment connected to the others in the Bill of Rights. I wasn't a shooter, so why should I care? Well, I guess it takes impending old age to really get my stuff together. I just hope I'm not too late. You should hope that, too. Because, as California goes, so goes the nation.

Sometimes, I envy people like you who got out of this state and found (as you say) your own "small piece of Heaven". I'm pretty much too old to pick up and leave. You should know, I live 7 minutes from the boat launch to go salmon fishing; 5 minutes from our duck blind; 15 minutes to a small town and over an hour from anything resembling a big city. Plus, I can get my Thanksgiving turkey from my front yard. My little piece of Heaven is also at the end of a canyon where there is no cell service (frustrates my grandkids when they can't get service and have to actually talk to each other). Fun times.

You know, you provided intelligent comments to all the points I made. I see where you're coming from. I just choose to keep up the fight as best I can here in the place I've called home since 1950. Too bad you live all the way in Alabama. I would like to have you for a neighbor. We could probably have a great time playing "Devil's Advocate" for each other.
 
New developments: Legal Challenge to California Anti-Gun Bills by Colin Gallagher

NOTE: IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE ABOVE FUNDRAZR LINK ON YOUR MOBILE DEVICE, PLEASE COPY AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING INTO YOUR BROWSER ADDRESS BAR TO VIEW THE LEGAL EFFORT TO STOP CALIFORNIA'S ANTI-GUN BILLS. (Please Share!)

fundrazr.com/018flf

See also in thread: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/cali...any-further-anti-gun-bills-ca.html#post597627

EDIT as of July 1, 2016: The California Legislature passed 11 bills and sent them to the Governor on June 30, 2016.
The Governor's office was contacted by phone on June 30, 2016 and his staff confirmed that he would be acting on the bills before he leaves the State.

As of 11:45 AM PDT July 1 2016: The following bills have been vetoed / signed - based on my call in today at 11:30 AM July 1, 2016 to the Governor's office:

Governor vetoed AB 1176, AB 1673 (Gipson's ghost gun bill), AB 1674, AB 2607, SB 894
Governor signed into law AB 1135, AB 1511, 1695, SB 880, SB 1235, SB 1446
Governor failed to act on AB 857 before leaving country (it passed the Legislature and is now in Assembly engrossing & enrolling office, and still needs to be fought to keep it from being signed into law)

There will be a need to initiate the lawsuit which has been contemplated in this post. Please donate at the above fundrazr link and share this post.
 
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This is directed to "BluesStringer": Well, I guess you told me. I guess I touched a nerve. That being said, I will admit to being part of the problem. In the past, I sat by and didn't pay attention to what was going on politically in this state (CA). I had blinders on and couldn't believe that our so called leaders would actively work to take away our rights. I did not understand how the Second Amendment connected to the others in the Bill of Rights. I wasn't a shooter, so why should I care? Well, I guess it takes impending old age to really get my stuff together. I just hope I'm not too late. You should hope that, too. Because, as California goes, so goes the nation.

Sometimes, I envy people like you who got out of this state and found (as you say) your own "small piece of Heaven". I'm pretty much too old to pick up and leave. You should know, I live 7 minutes from the boat launch to go salmon fishing; 5 minutes from our duck blind; 15 minutes to a small town and over an hour from anything resembling a big city. Plus, I can get my Thanksgiving turkey from my front yard. My little piece of Heaven is also at the end of a canyon where there is no cell service (frustrates my grandkids when they can't get service and have to actually talk to each other). Fun times.

You know, you provided intelligent comments to all the points I made. I see where you're coming from. I just choose to keep up the fight as best I can here in the place I've called home since 1950. Too bad you live all the way in Alabama. I would like to have you for a neighbor. We could probably have a great time playing "Devil's Advocate" for each other.

Jean, you asked several questions which I politely and directly answered. The only "nerve" struck was the use of the word "whine" to describe anyone who didn't (and still doesn't) see the situation in CA through the same prism as you do. I addressed it and went on though, and my intention was only to answer your questions intelligently and from personal (native-born) experience in the state you posed them about. I did not intend to "tell" you anything but the truth as I see it, and it in no way was intended to be personally critical beyond two brief mentions of the word "whining" that you used.

I get that folks won't leave CA for various rationales. I don't begrudge them that, although more than one poster on this site who still lives there has actually made me out to be a traitor or coward for leaving when 2A times got tough. There's a Catch-22 kind of thing about staying or leaving is all I'm saying. I honestly don't think like that and honestly don't begrudge you your choices. I ask only the same courtesies in return.

There are really only three things I miss about CA - year-round motorcycle-riding weather, the beach, and the variety of geographical environments from high-altitude mountains to below sea-level deserts, and everything in between, all less than a full day's ride away (from SoCal). But the government and economy there suck out loud, and did back then too. I learned early on that no politician could be trusted there, and have since learned that no politician anywhere can be trusted. And I, too, used to say that as CA goes, so goes the nation, but it's simply not true anymore, if it ever truly was to begin with. Many states are moving towards less-restrictive gun laws. Constitutional carry has expanded from like three or four states to eight or nine states today, and those improvements have taken place over just the last eight to 10 years, concurrently with CA's, OR's and WA's moves towards clamping down on gun issues. When we defeated the attempted move in the Prop 15 fight, that attempt was gathering steam at the same time I was living in WA State where I got my first permit at age 21 (1976). The fact that 40 years later both OR and WA have more restrictive gun laws than they did back then doesn't have much, if anything, to do with CA I don't think. I think it's more about population centers run by uber-liberals have attracted large voting blocks of poor people by giving away enough free stuff to be able to count on their votes for perpetuity. Rural states, however, are becoming more and more red. So we headed to one of those states within a month after the fires from the Rodney King riots were extinguished, and never looked back. It ain't perfect here either politically or weather-wise or geographically, but it's still possible to order our lives here as free from government intrusion as just about anywhere else in the country except for maybe the wilds of Alaska, which my uber-cold-blooded wife would never contemplate moving to, so here we are, and here we'll die.

I determined for myself that I could no longer participate in political processes in good conscience. It has nothing to do with being lazy or being a whiner or whatever-the-heck have you. I believe in my heart of hearts that the political processes are corrupt beyond redemption and/or restoration, and that for me to participate would be no different morally and ethically-speaking than me participating in any other form of organized crime, which I have never and will never knowingly do. I get more libertarian with each passing day it seems, and believe so deeply in freedom and liberty that it never crosses my mind to proselytize that others should adopt my view in this regard. You will never be criticized by me simply for deciding for yourself how and which political processes you keep participating in, but if you mischaracterize the many rational and valid reasons that I and many others hold for the opposite view, I will push back against it, and if you ask a bunch of questions concerning why we might hold those views like you did here, I will answer them directly, and that's all I was doing.

Best to you and yours. I hope you get something for all your efforts, honestly I do.

Blues
 
Jean, you asked several questions which I politely and directly answered. The only "nerve" struck was the use of the word "whine" to describe anyone who didn't (and still doesn't) see the situation in CA through the same prism as you do. I addressed it and went on though, and my intention was only to answer your questions intelligently and from personal (native-born) experience in the state you posed them about. I did not intend to "tell" you anything but the truth as I see it, and it in no way was intended to be personally critical beyond two brief mentions of the word "whining" that you used.

I get that folks won't leave CA for various rationales. I don't begrudge them that, although more than one poster on this site who still lives there has actually made me out to be a traitor or coward for leaving when 2A times got tough. There's a Catch-22 kind of thing about staying or leaving is all I'm saying. I honestly don't think like that and honestly don't begrudge you your choices. I ask only the same courtesies in return.

There are really only three things I miss about CA - year-round motorcycle-riding weather, the beach, and the variety of geographical environments from high-altitude mountains to below sea-level deserts, and everything in between, all less than a full day's ride away (from SoCal). But the government and economy there suck out loud, and did back then too. I learned early on that no politician could be trusted there, and have since learned that no politician anywhere can be trusted. And I, too, used to say that as CA goes, so goes the nation, but it's simply not true anymore, if it ever truly was to begin with. Many states are moving towards less-restrictive gun laws. Constitutional carry has expanded from like three or four states to eight or nine states today, and those improvements have taken place over just the last eight to 10 years, concurrently with CA's, OR's and WA's moves towards clamping down on gun issues. When we defeated the attempted move in the Prop 15 fight, that attempt was gathering steam at the same time I was living in WA State where I got my first permit at age 21 (1976). The fact that 40 years later both OR and WA have more restrictive gun laws than they did back then doesn't have much, if anything, to do with CA I don't think. I think it's more about population centers run by uber-liberals have attracted large voting blocks of poor people by giving away enough free stuff to be able to count on their votes for perpetuity. Rural states, however, are becoming more and more red. So we headed to one of those states within a month after the fires from the Rodney King riots were extinguished, and never looked back. It ain't perfect here either politically or weather-wise or geographically, but it's still possible to order our lives here as free from government intrusion as just about anywhere else in the country except for maybe the wilds of Alaska, which my uber-cold-blooded wife would never contemplate moving to, so here we are, and here we'll die.

I determined for myself that I could no longer participate in political processes in good conscience. It has nothing to do with being lazy or being a whiner or whatever-the-heck have you. I believe in my heart of hearts that the political processes are corrupt beyond redemption and/or restoration, and that for me to participate would be no different morally and ethically-speaking than me participating in any other form of organized crime, which I have never and will never knowingly do. I get more libertarian with each passing day it seems, and believe so deeply in freedom and liberty that it never crosses my mind to proselytize that others should adopt my view in this regard. You will never be criticized by me simply for deciding for yourself how and which political processes you keep participating in, but if you mischaracterize the many rational and valid reasons that I and many others hold for the opposite view, I will push back against it, and if you ask a bunch of questions concerning why we might hold those views like you did here, I will answer them directly, and that's all I was doing.

Best to you and yours. I hope you get something for all your efforts, honestly I do.

Blues

I didn't take anything you said in your original statements. You were pretty much spot on with your reply. And my "whiner" remark shouldn't have been directed at you. That's why, in my second post I confessed to being part of the problem in the past. You should also know that I appreciate all you tried to do while you were here in CA. I'm just trying to pick up where you (and others like you who have managed to move to a more free state) left off. It's just really frustrating.

I have 2 sons, 2 step-sons, 2 daughters, 16 grown grandkids and 6 great-grandbabies. I am trying to get them ALL to leave CA. Have 2 sons who listened and moved their families to Idaho; a daughter in Georgia; and a daughter in Northern CA (or should I say the State of Jefferson). When the time comes to pick my "old folks home" I will assuredly NOT be living in CA either. Until then, I'll just keep on fighting for ALL of our rights as listed in the Bill of Rights.

By the way, I agree with your wife. Alaska is too darn cold for too much of the year for me. Been there and done that, got the T-shirt. But, the hunting and fishing are amazing!
 

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