Buying a handgun out of state

[Twinkie]

I have been trying to buy a handgun for a while now.
I have tried out a variety of guns and fell in love with a gun that my mother owns (she hates it).
But, I have a problem.
I am a Wyoming resident and she is a Colorado resident.
How do I go about buying the handgun from her? What are the laws for transferring guns out of state?

 

[telpinaro]

Good luck... nobody in Colorado is currently sure how to sell a handgun to someone else from Colorado (at least, as far as I know. Everyone just complains for the most part). All those new laws and whatnot. Hope it doesn't have more than a 15 round magazine, since those are illegal now! I think here you'd have to find an FFL dealer willing to do it for you.

Maybe she could go to Wyoming and sell it to you there?

 

[Nightmare45]

Personal weapon belonging to your mom ask her if you can have it on a trip? Or is she wanting to sell it?

 

[Twinkie]

Personal weapon belonging to your mom ask her if you can have it on a trip? Or is she wanting to sell it?

She is wanting to sell it.

 

[Twinkie]

Is it possible for her to sell it in Wyoming? Could we just do a bill of sale and call it good? Or would we have to find and FFL dealer or Pawn shop to go through?

 

[telpinaro]

Colorado requires an FFL and background check for any permanent transfer. A lot of gun shops don't want to do it, partly because they have to pay more then they're allowed to charge you, and partly because they're mad about that being the law. Most of the sheriffs out here also think it's ridiculous, so they probably wouldn't do anything about it. I'm certainly not saying to go sneaking around behind the law, because if any more liberals get voted in (unlikely given the current state of affairs, but anything's possible), your mom could have issues later down the road. Heck, why not call a sheriff's office in a rural county (hopefully your mother isn't in Denver or Boulder... you'd probably be screwed) and ask what you'd have to do in Colorado, and if your mom could sell it out of state without an issue?

I have no idea about Wyoming, but that might be your best bet.

 

[Regge]

Its actually quite easy to do legally. Have your mother take it to an FFL dealer who will (for a fee) mail it to an FFL dealer in Wyoming who will effect the transfer paperwork (for a fee). Whatever other sales price is between you and the seller. The FFL dealers only effect the transfer not the sale.

 

[89JeepYj]

Are the police going to come to her house and check her inventory of guns? Does Wyoming make you register your guns and where you purchased them? Are you federally prohibited from owning a gun? If you answered NO to all of these, then here's a crazy idea. Why don't you give mom money and she gives you the gun and you both call it a day.

 

[wolf_fire]

I have been trying to buy a handgun for a while now.
I have tried out a variety of guns and fell in love with a gun that my mother owns (she hates it).
But, I have a problem.
I am a Wyoming resident and she is a Colorado resident.
How do I go about buying the handgun from her? What are the laws for transferring guns out of state?

Technically, she needs to have an FFL send it to an FFL in WY for you to pick it up once you've paid the original gun owner. You will then pay your FFL a transfer fee, they'll do the required background checks and then you can legally take possession of your handgun. Dagnabit I really hate writing that... "legally take possession", it just screams in the face of the Constitution.

 

[MTOakey]

No person anywhere has to use an FFL to "transfer" a person to person, non-dealer gun. There is no such thing as "registration of ownership" in this country, except NY, DC & Cali possibly. Since your Mom is still alive she can just give it to you with no paperwork whatsoever. Solely for yours & her protection, some type of "Bill of Sale" stating date should be made. As long as you are not a "Prohibited" person, go get it, or have her bring it to you. You would have to use an FFL, on both ends, if she just wants to ship it to you.

 

[JimTh]

You must have been given the pistol as a gift from your mother before the Colorado law went into effect! Now simply because you gave her money at Christmas that just happened to be the same amount she wanted to sell you the gun for is just coincident!

 

[Burtboomer]

I could be wrong but being a family member the handgun could be a gift to you legally.

 

[JimTh]

I could be wrong but being a family member the handgun could be a gift to you legally.

Not if Colorado has a universal background check on the books.

 

[telpinaro]

Not if Colorado has a universal background check on the books.

Which they do. Unfortunately. At least they finally clarified it saying that a very temporary loan is ok... before they did that you technically couldn't let anyone else shoot your gun while at the range!

 

[NavyLCDR]

No person anywhere has to use an FFL to "transfer" a person to person, non-dealer gun. There is no such thing as "registration of ownership" in this country, except NY, DC & Cali possibly. Since your Mom is still alive she can just give it to you with no paperwork whatsoever. Solely for yours & her protection, some type of "Bill of Sale" stating date should be made. As long as you are not a "Prohibited" person, go get it, or have her bring it to you. You would have to use an FFL, on both ends, if she just wants to ship it to you.

You must have been given the pistol as a gift from your mother before the Colorado law went into effect! Now simply because you gave her money at Christmas that just happened to be the same amount she wanted to sell you the gun for is just coincident!

I could be wrong but being a family member the handgun could be a gift to you legally.

Not if Colorado has a universal background check on the books.

Anyone want to comply with the law, or just commit two Federal crimes and hope nobody notices? Mom sells or gives the handgun to Twinkie without going through an FFL, and mom violates Federal law, 18 USC 922 (a)(5). Twinkie returns to Wyoming with that gun and he/she violates 18 USC 922(a)(3). Two seperate crimes violating Federal law are committed. 18 USC 922(b)(3) requires the handgun to be transferred through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence, in this case Wyoming. The gun can be shipped to a Wyoming FFL by the mom directly, but it would have to go overnight FEDEX or UPS. It would be against the law for mom to mail the gun to the FFL using the US Post Office. Or mom can take the handgun to a Colorado FFL who can mail the gun to the Wyoming FFL using the US Post Office and save some shipping $$$$. Or, the mom can deliver the gun to a Wyoming FFL in person.

Any transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another will involve issues of both state law and federal law.

I've posted this numerous times, but here is the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:

18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

...