Just bought a Kahr CW380. Handbook says 200 rounds to break it in. With the cost of ammo these days I got to thinking... What does a "break in" really entail? Shooting 200 rounds cycles the slide 200 times, and lowers the hammer 200 times and works the internals 200 times. Why would you have to fire ammo to do that? how about snap caps and manually work the slide 200 or more times? would that accomplish the same thing? At over a dollar a shot I would be more than willing to cycle the slide manually. And if you were dry firing, it would improve your shooting at the same time. Any thoughts on why manually cycling the slide and pulling the trigger on snap caps would not work? I know the barrel would stay clean, but do you need to break in a barrel?
breaking in a new gun .
- Thread starter mandit
- Start date
Happypuppy
New member
I have know a lot of fellows doing what you suggest. They load the mag with snap caps "fire" cycle by hand repeat many, many times. Seems to help, can't say if it is as good, but what's the harm?
just 'bout the action boss...
just 'bout the action boss...
wolf_fire
New member
mandit,
There are many other good reasons to make sure you cycle a weapon with live fire. Will your ammo actually cycle properly? Will it stove pipe? Will it eject in erratic directions? Will it eject at all? Will the powder be high enough to cycle the slide?
Also, while cycling the slide by hand, if it doesn't go, you give it a little more force. The ammo cannot "give it a little more force".
Also, is the firing pin striking correctly?
Lastly, the ammunition will violently rack the slide, eject the case, and load another round. You will not be able to emulate that sort of violent action by hand.
In addition to all that, you develop muscle memory in shooting your firearm if you practice well and practice often. Sure, ammo is expensive (not a dollar a round expensive for training rounds), but it is expensive. However, in a SHTF situation, I want to be able to react to the situation properly based on good muscle memory.
To save you money, here's a good link: Link Removed
Only 42 cents per round for target ammo. Yes, your defense ammo is about $1 per round, but I mostly practice with FMJ and run a mag or two of defense rounds when I go to the range just to make sure they cycle properly as well.
Hope this helps.
There are many other good reasons to make sure you cycle a weapon with live fire. Will your ammo actually cycle properly? Will it stove pipe? Will it eject in erratic directions? Will it eject at all? Will the powder be high enough to cycle the slide?
Also, while cycling the slide by hand, if it doesn't go, you give it a little more force. The ammo cannot "give it a little more force".
Also, is the firing pin striking correctly?
Lastly, the ammunition will violently rack the slide, eject the case, and load another round. You will not be able to emulate that sort of violent action by hand.
In addition to all that, you develop muscle memory in shooting your firearm if you practice well and practice often. Sure, ammo is expensive (not a dollar a round expensive for training rounds), but it is expensive. However, in a SHTF situation, I want to be able to react to the situation properly based on good muscle memory.
To save you money, here's a good link: Link Removed
Only 42 cents per round for target ammo. Yes, your defense ammo is about $1 per round, but I mostly practice with FMJ and run a mag or two of defense rounds when I go to the range just to make sure they cycle properly as well.
Hope this helps.
Bluestar99
New member
When I buy a new gun, I want to shoot it, that's why I bought it. Plus I want to know if it will function in the real world if I need it to.
lostinataxi
New member
I would never "carry" an untested gun; that's one reason to shoot it, but it's a BIG reason. The other reasons are you cannot simulate the stresses put on the gun when it actually fires live rounds, by simply manually cycling the weapon and pulling the trigger. The other reasons are to practice with it and learn how it shoots, where to hold on the target, etc... I realize ammo is not cheap, but there is no shortcut to be had. Whenever I buy a new gun, I consider the cost of ammo as well. If it's a "new" caliber for me, it will increase the cost to own it since I will then have to go and purchase ammo in a new caliber. If it's a gun with a caliber of something else I already own, I have enough ammo on hand and don't have to buy more. I stocked up before the elections.... when it was cheaper and more plentiful. I don't like to have to go buy a box every time I go shooting so I have plenty for all my different guns and don't have to worry about restocking for quite a while.
I agree with those who suggest you actually shoot your new gun with at least some rounds that you plan to use in it especially since it is a carry gun. Some semi-autos are picky about the ammo they like and do not like. That said, if you do choose to cycle the slide and press the trigger so your pistol at least gets some extra manual cycling and the springs get some work as well, make sure you follow proper dry-fire techniques. Then you not only can work the action, but get in some great dry-fire, correct trigger press, and reload drills. Hope you enjoy your new tool!
Hope this clears things up about breaking in a gun, when a barrel is rifled it is either a button pulled rifling, broach cut or polygonal. All these types do the same thing, and that is to give a bullet a spin, and stabilize the flight
During the process of building the barrel, there are always tooling marks, and open pores inside the barrel.
When a bullet passes through a new barrel, the pores get filled with copper, and the marks that stick out will score the passing bullet.
Breaking in the barrel will close the pores, and eliminate the spurs. You see as the bullet passes, the pores get clogged with copper, but do close up a bit. If you remove the copper, you will close up the pores with each shot, and the spurs will just get "shot off" so to speak. If you do not do this, the pores will exist for years to come, forever scoring the bullet as it passes. This will affect accuracy.
The most common way to break in a barrel is as follows.
First get a good copper solvent, not Hoppes no 9; that is a carbon cleaner. I use Butches bore shine. These are ammonia based cleaners. You will also need a good rod with a brass Jag in the caliber of you rifle.
Now shoot one shot, then push at least 5 copper solvent soaked patches through the bore; one at a time please, just 5 total. Then let it sit for about 2 min. Then start pushing clean patches through until the patches don't have any greenish blue on them; that is the color of dissolved copper.
Repeat this process for the first 20 rounds. Then shoot 3 shot groups and clean the same way for 30 shots. Then shoot 5 shot groups and clean for total of 50 rounds.
Some say that the barrel is broken in after the first 20 rounds, but a very hard steel(one that is cryogenic treated), may need more. This will produce a smooth bore in the hardest of barrels.
I generally will clean after 20 rounds after this.
It may not be needed for the average hunter who shoots a Deer in the vitals, but for a military/police sniper, it is essential. The tooling marks can score a bullet so much that it makes a 2 inch group at 100 meters as opposed to .5 inch at 100 meters. In the police sniper game, not missing is as important as hitting the target.
I own 2 precision .308 rifles. One is an auto AR10-T, and the other is a 700 built custom. My best group with the bolt is 3.25 inch in the bull 5 shot group at 500 meters using Black Hills 175 grain match .308. If the barrel was not broken in properly, this would not be possible.
Hope this explains what you asked.
During the process of building the barrel, there are always tooling marks, and open pores inside the barrel.
When a bullet passes through a new barrel, the pores get filled with copper, and the marks that stick out will score the passing bullet.
Breaking in the barrel will close the pores, and eliminate the spurs. You see as the bullet passes, the pores get clogged with copper, but do close up a bit. If you remove the copper, you will close up the pores with each shot, and the spurs will just get "shot off" so to speak. If you do not do this, the pores will exist for years to come, forever scoring the bullet as it passes. This will affect accuracy.
The most common way to break in a barrel is as follows.
First get a good copper solvent, not Hoppes no 9; that is a carbon cleaner. I use Butches bore shine. These are ammonia based cleaners. You will also need a good rod with a brass Jag in the caliber of you rifle.
Now shoot one shot, then push at least 5 copper solvent soaked patches through the bore; one at a time please, just 5 total. Then let it sit for about 2 min. Then start pushing clean patches through until the patches don't have any greenish blue on them; that is the color of dissolved copper.
Repeat this process for the first 20 rounds. Then shoot 3 shot groups and clean the same way for 30 shots. Then shoot 5 shot groups and clean for total of 50 rounds.
Some say that the barrel is broken in after the first 20 rounds, but a very hard steel(one that is cryogenic treated), may need more. This will produce a smooth bore in the hardest of barrels.
I generally will clean after 20 rounds after this.
It may not be needed for the average hunter who shoots a Deer in the vitals, but for a military/police sniper, it is essential. The tooling marks can score a bullet so much that it makes a 2 inch group at 100 meters as opposed to .5 inch at 100 meters. In the police sniper game, not missing is as important as hitting the target.
I own 2 precision .308 rifles. One is an auto AR10-T, and the other is a 700 built custom. My best group with the bolt is 3.25 inch in the bull 5 shot group at 500 meters using Black Hills 175 grain match .308. If the barrel was not broken in properly, this would not be possible.
Hope this explains what you asked.
Acasper708
New member
The CW380 is a good little gun but but there have been a cple that have had hiccups.
Follow the suggested breakin word for word and it will be a great shooter!!
Most the time when a Kahr is having problems it is cause the break in wasn't done properly.
Break it down and clean it really really good. Don't shoot it out of the box.
Follow the suggested breakin word for word and it will be a great shooter!!
Most the time when a Kahr is having problems it is cause the break in wasn't done properly.
Break it down and clean it really really good. Don't shoot it out of the box.
I've been carrying a Kahr for the past few years. I recommend getting to the range and break it in, then keep shooting. While ammo is more expensive than it once was any new gun takes a lite time to get used to. Small polymer guns tend to recoil a little more so the more range time you get the better off you'll be. Congrats on the new gun. Enjoy it!
bofh
Banned
I have never paid over a Dollar per round for 380 FMJ ammo, which is what you should use for breaking the gun in and for target practice. Once you have broken the gun in and feel comfortable with it, start shooting your self defense ammo through it to assure that it will cycle correctly. Once you have verified that your self defense ammo works in this gun, carry it. You do not need to waste money by breaking a gun in with self defense ammo.
If you are complaining about spending the money on ammo for breaking in a carry gun, you should really think about what it means to carry (or for that matter own) a gun. If you are not an experienced shooter, it would be even more important to regularly practice with it. Shooting a paper target in the center circle in 10-20 seconds interval is different from a self defensive shooting where you need to hit the attacker center mass multiple times within a few seconds.
I recommend to go regularly to the range and shoot the gun for practice reasons. That's how I usually break in my guns, by firing at least a box of FMJ ammo through during each practice session. Also, clean the gun after every session.
My current monthly practice throughput is 200 rounds of 9mm FMJ at 30c/round, 100 rounds of 380 FMJ at 35c/round, and 200 rounds of 22lr at 7ct/round. That's $119 per month in ammo cost. Some may consider this high, some low.
For good-priced ammo, regularly visit your local gun stores (especially on delivery day) and check out online suppliers, such as In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies, gun-deals.com - User-Submitted Gun & Ammunition Deals, and Link Removed. For example, my local Gander Mountain store had 380 FMJ for 50c/round today (including taxes). Since I still have enough of that ammo, I didn't buy it.
If you are complaining about spending the money on ammo for breaking in a carry gun, you should really think about what it means to carry (or for that matter own) a gun. If you are not an experienced shooter, it would be even more important to regularly practice with it. Shooting a paper target in the center circle in 10-20 seconds interval is different from a self defensive shooting where you need to hit the attacker center mass multiple times within a few seconds.
I recommend to go regularly to the range and shoot the gun for practice reasons. That's how I usually break in my guns, by firing at least a box of FMJ ammo through during each practice session. Also, clean the gun after every session.
My current monthly practice throughput is 200 rounds of 9mm FMJ at 30c/round, 100 rounds of 380 FMJ at 35c/round, and 200 rounds of 22lr at 7ct/round. That's $119 per month in ammo cost. Some may consider this high, some low.
For good-priced ammo, regularly visit your local gun stores (especially on delivery day) and check out online suppliers, such as In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies, gun-deals.com - User-Submitted Gun & Ammunition Deals, and Link Removed. For example, my local Gander Mountain store had 380 FMJ for 50c/round today (including taxes). Since I still have enough of that ammo, I didn't buy it.
JCliff
New member
Cycling the firearm by hand is definitely NOT the same as when it is cycled by live fire. 200 rounds or so is a reasonable number for "breaking in" and for demonstrating reliability. You're going to want to spend a little money and make sure your new Kahr will handle (feed, fire, extract, eject) the exact same type of self-defense ammo you're actually going to carry in it. I would recommend at least 50 rds (beyond your initial 200 rds of range ammo) of whatever you're going to carry in it. You want to be CERTAIN it will WORK EVERY TIME with your carry ammo.
Rocketgeezer
New member
Yes it does suck that you have to factor in the cost of break in ammo, but that really depends on the gun, my Glocks got broken in by running a couple mags full through the new gun and maybe a mag full of my carry ammo, the 1911s went to the range and if they jammed more than once or twice with that first 50 rds, it went back or got traded, if it made it through the first 50 rds with no trouble I may have run another box or two through it, then carry it, this needing 200, 300+ rds before running reliably is BS, all guns don't do this but some do, the ones that do will belong to somebody else
JCliff
New member
.
Gonna disagree with you here Rocketgeezer. Not BS to test and break-in a new firearm. By your own description, you run ~100-150 rds through a new gun, which is nearly as much as what most others in this thread have recommended. Many new firearms, by their manufacturer's recommendation, require some break-in period. As for any firearm that is to be used primarily for self-defense, the way you determine reliability is by testing. That is true of any man-made object or system. Break your new firearm in with range ammo, make sure it's functioning properly and reliably, then test it for reliability with your carry ammo. For self-defense, you're betting your life and possibly the lives of others that your firearm will function flawlessly when needed. Failure to test is to rely on hope alone.
Rocketgeezer
New member
OK but one thing I did not say was out of that 100-150 rds it is generaly all sorts of different ammo, just so I would know that the gun would shoot anything, and I also said that if the gun in question screwed up while on the first box it went back, the 100-150 rds was for my own piece of mind, but even that is something I have never had to do with a Glock, only the 1911s, and the Walther P-22, I don't know, but have always wondered why you should have to break in a gun for it to function properly, especialy if the gun in question cost $1000 - $1200 or more, in my mind a gun that expensive should run like a good watch, right off the bat, not after several hundred rds, one thing I do know for sure is just because a gun cost $1000-$1200 don't mean its a great gun it can still be junk, and I don't care who's name is on it
LTC LD Army Retired
New member
Most of these guys are right on target. Shoot the dang thing! Breaking in a new weapon is about much more than just the number of rounds you fire. As others have described, firing the weapon generates forces which cycle the slide and reload the chamber with a fresh round each time - assuming everything works. That's one reason to spend some time on the range - just to make sure everything works. Sometimes a "lemon" gets through the manufacturing process and nothing you can do will make it function properly - but you won't know with only a few rounds.
Also, some weapons actually do prefer a particular type of ammo. Some types will hit consistently every time; others the gun will throw everywhere; and some may not even fit the chamber well. So don't just fire 200 rounds; fire a variety of ammo to see what works best.
Another thing that some responses touched on but didn't hammer home is that firing the weapon has an effect on how the parts fits together, and this affects the accuracy of the weapon. My M&P 9c tossed rounds everywhere for the first 100 rounds; then things begin to change. Point of impact began to settle and become consistent. After about 300 rounds, it stabilized. Now, several thousand rounds later, I can tell you that if I hold high center of mass (chest high), impact is going to be just to the right, between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock positions, clustered into a hole about 2 inches across (just about where the heart sits in the chest). Some would say that I am off-target; in my military mind, there is no doubt that target is going down! Wouldn't know this without physically firing the weapon.
Speaking of hold, you only learn how to hold your firearm correctly when you actually fire it. Dry fire is a great training technique; have trained a great number of soldiers using that method -- but nothing beats putting rounds downrange. Hands that stay dry and steady during dry fire tend to get sweaty and sometimes shaky during live fire. The physical position of the pistol changes each time you fire it due to recoil; you have to learn to control recoil and maintain a solid grip. Some weapons torque slightly right or left when fired (basic law of physics); others kick straight up and back. How your particular weapon will respond can't be determined through dry fire; only live firing will let you experience true gun control!
I would recommend that you seek out a local instructor, or even an experienced shooter, for some hands-on learning. Go to the range, work through 50-100 rounds, practice proper techniques, learn your weapon. I don't want to sound like I am preaching, but an inexperienced firearms owner is often more dangerous to himself than almost any criminal threat; and you cannot nullify the threat if you can't put rounds on target. Getting some range time, and become proficient.
Also, some weapons actually do prefer a particular type of ammo. Some types will hit consistently every time; others the gun will throw everywhere; and some may not even fit the chamber well. So don't just fire 200 rounds; fire a variety of ammo to see what works best.
Another thing that some responses touched on but didn't hammer home is that firing the weapon has an effect on how the parts fits together, and this affects the accuracy of the weapon. My M&P 9c tossed rounds everywhere for the first 100 rounds; then things begin to change. Point of impact began to settle and become consistent. After about 300 rounds, it stabilized. Now, several thousand rounds later, I can tell you that if I hold high center of mass (chest high), impact is going to be just to the right, between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock positions, clustered into a hole about 2 inches across (just about where the heart sits in the chest). Some would say that I am off-target; in my military mind, there is no doubt that target is going down! Wouldn't know this without physically firing the weapon.
Speaking of hold, you only learn how to hold your firearm correctly when you actually fire it. Dry fire is a great training technique; have trained a great number of soldiers using that method -- but nothing beats putting rounds downrange. Hands that stay dry and steady during dry fire tend to get sweaty and sometimes shaky during live fire. The physical position of the pistol changes each time you fire it due to recoil; you have to learn to control recoil and maintain a solid grip. Some weapons torque slightly right or left when fired (basic law of physics); others kick straight up and back. How your particular weapon will respond can't be determined through dry fire; only live firing will let you experience true gun control!
I would recommend that you seek out a local instructor, or even an experienced shooter, for some hands-on learning. Go to the range, work through 50-100 rounds, practice proper techniques, learn your weapon. I don't want to sound like I am preaching, but an inexperienced firearms owner is often more dangerous to himself than almost any criminal threat; and you cannot nullify the threat if you can't put rounds on target. Getting some range time, and become proficient.
