Brandishing a Firearm Charge

[Srilee]

Yesterday evening on the drive home from work I found myself involved in a "Road Rage" incident. I was traveling on the interstate on my way to pick up my children at school. I signaled and merged left into traffic. After doing so I noticed a driver in a purple mustang come up behind me at a high rate of speed and begin flashing his lights. I signaled and got over into the right hand lane to allow the mustang to pass. The mustang sped past me in the left and proceeded to passed me at which time the driver gave me the middle finger. He then abruptly switched lanes and got over in front me and slammed on his brakes. I screeched my tires as I maneuvered to avoid hitting him from behind. The driver of the mustang again slammed on brakes in front of me attempting to force me to rear-end him. The driver of the purple mustang who was still ahead of me switched lanes to the outer most lane and then slowed to pull alongside me on the driver’s side. He motioned for me to pull over. The driver of the mustang accelerated ahead and got in front of me and switched lanes to the inner most lane still motioning out the window for me to get over. I stayed my course in the 2nd lane as it was obvious he wanted me to get off at the next exit (which happened to be my exit) and engage him in an altercation. He then seeing I wasn’t interested in his threats accelerated on ahead roughly 50 yards. I got over and began to merge off on my intended exit. The driver of the mustang abruptly crossed over 2 lanes and shot off on the exit ramp and now approached from behind me. As I neared the stop light at the top of the ramp the driver of the mustang stopped his vehicle on the shoulder roughly 15 yards behind me and exited his vehicle. I pulled to a stop behind traffic on the shoulder just short of the light as well. Still in my vehicle I could hear the mustang driver launch into a verbal assault on me and then began taunting me to engage in an altercation with him by stating numerous times “Come on P*$$Y” and a “You’re F@gg0t”. After repeated insults I mistakenly stepped from my vehicle and told the drive “Seriously? You want to fight me over a traffic issue. I’m 6’4” and 215lbs. Go Home”. He was appeared startled at my comment or my size and immediately stated“ I will f&%k1ng kill you” and abruptly took a tactical stance and reached for his back pocket where I could see a firearm protruding. He removed the firearm partially from his pocket and stated “I’ll draw down on you so f%$k1ng fast you’ll be dead before you know it.” Realizing I should have never put myself in this situation and thank goodness standing beside my vehicle I immediately retreated back inside my vehicle. Fortunately the light turned green and I proceeded through the intersection, again heading towards my intended destination. The mustang driver who was behind me at the intersection stop light sped up and shot in front of me on the outside through the middle of the intersection. This being a single turn lane I braked to avoid him and he continued his road rage games in front of me by stomping his brakes for the next 3/4 of a mile. I got over in the right lane to turn right of to continue on track to my destination. The driver who was still in front of me turned as well, apparently following. As I made the immediate right turn on the approach to the daycare facility/school I observed the mustang driver abruptly stop in the road and do an immediate U turn. Realizing this person was still aggressively pursuing me and not wanting to bring this apparently unstable individual anywhere near my children or anyone else’s children I stopped my vehicle outside the school property/parking lot. I was now out of sight from the driver however within seconds I observed the driver turn to follow me again. I’m now found myself on a dead-end street (outside of school grounds) as the driver approached me from the rear. He then pulled his vehicle along sided mine and stopped parallel with my truck. The driver then stepped from his vehicle in his continued aggressive manner and again began to repeat his verbal threats on my life stating “I’ll kill you, you pu$$y, I’ll f&%k1ng kill you!” Fearing for my safety and well-being and knowing this individual was armed I reached for my firearm. As he continued toward me I held my firearm in hand on my center console in a manner that I felt I could defend myself. As he approached the driver’s side window I loudly and clearly stated to the driver “You need to return to you vehicle immediately.” At this point he noticed the firearm I had placed on the center console and he began to return to his vehicle stating “Go pick up your kids *****, That’s right go pick up your kids *****.” I stayed put as the driver backed up down the road and finally turned onto the main road and was out of sight. This was the last I saw of the driver. So all this being said I had three officers show up at my house last night. As it turns out this individual filed a police report against me stating that I "Brandished a Firearm" at him in an intimidating way. At this point no charges have been filed. Obviously I should have called 911 earlier in the situation but hindsight is 20/20 and after he cornered I still feel I had no choice but to draw my weapon and remain in a defensive position. Please note at no time did I display the weapon to this individual. My weapon remained on my center console (in hand) and was not visible until the other driver approached and could see inside my vehicle through the window. Also, note I drive a F150 Super crew truck so to see inside a vehicle of this height you need to be within arm’s length. My question to the group would be how would you respond to these accusations and could these alleged accusations affect my CCH permit in anyway?
It’s worth noting that the officers who responded seemed sympathetic even though this is a “He said/She Said” situation. One fact remains clear. He followed me and continued to follow me so they agree this indicates clearly that he was the aggressor. Sorry for the long post…

 

[wildman66]

I think you realize just how this could have gone sideways in a heartbeat. I always wear an ear piece for my c phone and might have got the police involved after the first freeway encounter. Hindsight of course. I'd say you were one lucky fellow who seems to have learned a thing or two from the encounter. Some real crazies out there.....

 

[RonM0710]

If a report was written, if he gets a copy, he has your address.

I would recommend whenever a gun comes into play in any form, call the police. He who calls first has an advantage of belief.

 

[BigSlick]

Please learn to use paragraphs for such a long post. It makes it much easier to read.

Yesterday evening on the drive home from work I found myself involved in a "Road Rage" incident. I was traveling on the interstate on my way to pick up my children at school. I signaled and merged left into traffic. After doing so I noticed a driver in a purple mustang come up behind me at a high rate of speed and begin flashing his lights. I signaled and got over into the right hand lane to allow the mustang to pass. The mustang sped past me in the left and proceeded to passed me at which time the driver gave me the middle finger. He then abruptly switched lanes and got over in front me and slammed on his brakes. I screeched my tires as I maneuvered to avoid hitting him from behind.

The driver of the mustang again slammed on brakes in front of me attempting to force me to rear-end him. The driver of the purple mustang who was still ahead of me switched lanes to the outer most lane and then slowed to pull alongside me on the driver’s side. He motioned for me to pull over. The driver of the mustang accelerated ahead and got in front of me and switched lanes to the inner most lane still motioning out the window for me to get over. I stayed my course in the 2nd lane as it was obvious he wanted me to get off at the next exit (which happened to be my exit) and engage him in an altercation. He then seeing I wasn’t interested in his threats accelerated on ahead roughly 50 yards. I got over and began to merge off on my intended exit. The driver of the mustang abruptly crossed over 2 lanes and shot off on the exit ramp and now approached from behind me. As I neared the stop light at the top of the ramp the driver of the mustang stopped his vehicle on the shoulder roughly 15 yards behind me and exited his vehicle. I pulled to a stop behind traffic on the shoulder just short of the light as well. Still in my vehicle I could hear the mustang driver launch into a verbal assault on me and then began taunting me to engage in an altercation with him by stating numerous times “Come on P*$$Y” and a “You’re F@gg0t”.

After repeated insults I mistakenly stepped from my vehicle and told the drive “Seriously? You want to fight me over a traffic issue. I’m 6’4” and 215lbs. Go Home”. He was appeared startled at my comment or my size and immediately stated“ I will f&%k1ng kill you” and abruptly took a tactical stance and reached for his back pocket where I could see a firearm protruding. He removed the firearm partially from his pocket and stated “I’ll draw down on you so f%$k1ng fast you’ll be dead before you know it.” Realizing I should have never put myself in this situation and thank goodness standing beside my vehicle I immediately retreated back inside my vehicle. Fortunately the light turned green and I proceeded through the intersection, again heading towards my intended destination. The mustang driver who was behind me at the intersection stop light sped up and shot in front of me on the outside through the middle of the intersection. This being a single turn lane I braked to avoid him and he continued his road rage games in front of me by stomping his brakes for the next 3/4 of a mile. I got over in the right lane to turn right of to continue on track to my destination. The driver who was still in front of me turned as well, apparently following.

As I made the immediate right turn on the approach to the daycare facility/school I observed the mustang driver abruptly stop in the road and do an immediate U turn. Realizing this person was still aggressively pursuing me and not wanting to bring this apparently unstable individual anywhere near my children or anyone else’s children I stopped my vehicle outside the school property/parking lot. I was now out of sight from the driver however within seconds I observed the driver turn to follow me again. I’m now found myself on a dead-end street (outside of school grounds) as the driver approached me from the rear. He then pulled his vehicle along sided mine and stopped parallel with my truck.

The driver then stepped from his vehicle in his continued aggressive manner and again began to repeat his verbal threats on my life stating “I’ll kill you, you pu$$y, I’ll f&%k1ng kill you!” Fearing for my safety and well-being and knowing this individual was armed I reached for my firearm. As he continued toward me I held my firearm in hand on my center console in a manner that I felt I could defend myself. As he approached the driver’s side window I loudly and clearly stated to the driver “You need to return to you vehicle immediately.” At this point he noticed the firearm I had placed on the center console and he began to return to his vehicle stating “Go pick up your kids *****, That’s right go pick up your kids *****.” I stayed put as the driver backed up down the road and finally turned onto the main road and was out of sight. This was the last I saw of the driver. So all this being said I had three officers show up at my house last night.

As it turns out this individual filed a police report against me stating that I "Brandished a Firearm" at him in an intimidating way. At this point no charges have been filed. Obviously I should have called 911 earlier in the situation but hindsight is 20/20 and after he cornered I still feel I had no choice but to draw my weapon and remain in a defensive position. Please note at no time did I display the weapon to this individual. My weapon remained on my center console (in hand) and was not visible until the other driver approached and could see inside my vehicle through the window. Also, note I drive a F150 Super crew truck so to see inside a vehicle of this height you need to be within arm’s length. My question to the group would be how would you respond to these accusations and could these alleged accusations affect my CCH permit in anyway?
It’s worth noting that the officers who responded seemed sympathetic even though this is a “He said/She Said” situation. One fact remains clear. He followed me and continued to follow me so they agree this indicates clearly that he was the aggressor. Sorry for the long post…

 

[NavyLCDR]

Always be the first one to call the police.

 

[bofh]

Always call 911 while this is happening and always keep driving on major roads. Never stop and engage. During the 911 call, you can provide the license plate # and a description of the car and driver. A LEO will eventually meet up with you and the car that is following you.

As for your questions about legal ramifications, we have no idea in which state this happened and what crime you are being accused of.

 

[BC1]

You exited the vehicle? Ever heard of George Zimmerman? You might have just exceeded his stupidity. As a PP instructor I'm advising you what you did is everything you shouldn't. While others might disagree they don't have to pay your lawyer.
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You NEVER stop the vehicle. You have a 4X4 pickup truck? Use it! drive over shoulders, through culverts or any other obstacle.
You NEVER get out. You've just escalated the situation.
You NEVER banter or argue. You've just escalated the situation.
You NEVER talk about your size. You've just escalated the situation.
You NEVER divulge where your going to your enemy.
You NEVER continue home or to your kids daycare. You've just put the family in danger.
You NEVER drive down a dead-end road when being pursued. You've put yourself in further harm.
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You ALWAYS call 911.
You ALWAYS drive directly to the police, or keep driving around with 911 on the phone until LE finds you.
You ALWAYS run your phone video or audio recorder, or, even better you have the 911 operator on the phone so she records the incident.
You ALWAYS keep your vehicle moving regardless of traffic laws.
You ALWAYS get the plate number of the aggressor and as many witnesses as you can.
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Questionable response on your part. I suggest you attend a good PP course from a reputable school. In some states escalating the incident removes your affirmative defense and you may not claim self-defense. In some states exiting the vehicle could be called an entry into a mutual combat agreement. The primary rules of self-defense are awareness, avoidance, deterrence, deescalation, withdrawal and retreat. That's it. This isn't a pissing contest between you and some schmucko. You disengage, notify police and direct them to your location. Or... you stand your ground and spend $150K on lawyers. Your job is to go home safely to your kids. Nothing comes before that. And where are your witnesses?
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And lastly, you NEVER try to bull$h!t the pro-gun community. It gets sniffed-out quickly. Five posts and this? Sorry, I don't believe you at all.

 

[apvbguy]

You exited the vehicle? Ever heard of George Zimmerman? You might have just exceeded his stupidity.

the only exceeding stupidity is by the person who brought zimmerman into this conversation.
1. the situations are in no way similar and
2. zimmerman did NOTHING wrong.
3. if you don't like #2, don't argue with me argue with the jury and the courts

 

[Srilee]

Well “BC” that was an interesting opinion. When I posted this I expected to take some degree of flack especially for not calling 911, but I respect the gun community and their opinions. You see “ BC” I’m just a normal law abiding citizen. I don’t train for these scenarios. I’m just a normal guy. You being a “instructor” should know this better than anyone and can attest to the degree in which these situations unfold. I’ll be the first to admit I made mistakes! I should have never exited my vehicle, I should have tried to deescalate the situation, I should have called 911. All that being said I do take offense with your comment don’t try to "Bull$h!t the pro-gun community". Up to this point your post was very creditable in my mind then I realized your “That guy”…. Yes, “ BC” you are an easy one to read. You’re “That Guy” that knows it all and every other 2nd amendment supporting citizen is simply not as smart as you… well at least in your mind. Well, guess what Einstein. I being just a dumb George Zimmerman lowlife idiot had the common scene after my adrenalin settled and my mind stated working versus mere survival instincts to call the police back and remind them of the location each encounter occurred and that there were traffic cameras in each spot where the conflict(s) occurred. They reviewed the footage which corroborated my “story” and are now encouraging me to press charges. Lucky… Yes! Lesson learned from this situation…Yes!
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Oh, and “BC”, How’s that for “Witnesses” and “Bull$h1t”!!!!!
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BTW… This makes my 6th post so I’m only 7669 post away from being as smart and cool as you. ;-)

 

[Srilee]

Thank you for the advice BOFH. The incident occurred in NC. I have spoken with my attorney and local firearms instructor and both agree there is nothing to fear in terms of my CCH permit but as stated above this guy does have my address now to be hyper aware of my surroundings not only for myself but for my family as well.

 

[HootenArmory]

The three main paragraphs of BC1's post are spot on. You have a distinct tactical tool while still in your vehicle. Avoid high traffic areas, don't let yourself get boxed in and drive to help. I give this advice to all my CHL students. Avoiding getting blocked in is not just advice for when you are in danger. It is good practice at all times to help avoid danger.
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In Texas you would likely be cleared as it is an exception to the brandishing law if the display of the firearm was in response to a situation in which deadly force would have been authorized. I say "likely" because you never really know with a jury...
Also in Texas if you escalate/instigate the situation, your not legally authorized the use of deadly force unless you depart or make clear your intention to depart from the situation and the other party continues anyway. This was also the case in your situation.
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Thank you for posting this story as it is a good teachable moment. I'm glad you're ok and this did not escalate any further. It sounds like the Mustang guy is a loose cannon. I would ask your lawyer about a restraining order against this individual since he now knows where you live.
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A resraining order is grounds for having your CHL yanked in TX. Basing soley on your story, it doesn't sound like this guy has any business carrying a gun in public.
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Finally, in response to the post about paragraphs: Srilee, if you insert a period or dash in between each paragraph as you type your response, the forum will allow you to make your post more readable. Otherwise, it deletes empty lines.

 

[Road Toad]

A dash cam is your friend.

 

[BC1]

the only exceeding stupidity is by the person who brought zimmerman into this conversation.
1. the situations are in no way similar and
2. zimmerman did NOTHING wrong.
3. if you don't like #2, don't argue with me argue with the jury and the courts

Zimmerman did EVERYTHING wrong. Go see an attorney. Tell him you're going to head the neighborhood watch, you have no training, no experience, no security guard license, no insurance, you'll be carrying a gun and you'll be approaching people. Let me know what his advice is. GZ is the poster boy for stupidity. That's a fact.
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When you use a gun in self-defense, even if 100% legal it will likely ruin your life. Tell me GZ's life is back to normal. Tell me this didn't ruin his life. When you get certified as a PP instructor you can argue with me. Until then? That's the course syllabus. If you don't agree take it up with the schools who certify us as PP instructors (Gun for Hire, Lethal Force Institute, Thunder Ranch, etc.).

 

[BC1]

Well “BC” that was an interesting opinion. When I posted this I expected to take some degree of flack especially for not calling 911, but I respect the gun community and their opinions. You see “ BC” I’m just a normal law abiding citizen. I don’t train for these scenarios. I’m just a normal guy. You being a “instructor” should know this better than anyone and can attest to the degree in which these situations unfold. I’ll be the first to admit I made mistakes! I should have never exited my vehicle, I should have tried to deescalate the situation, I should have called 911. All that being said I do take offense with your comment don’t try to "Bull$h!t the pro-gun community". Up to this point your post was very creditable in my mind then I realized your “That guy”…. Yes, “ BC” you are an easy one to read. You’re “That Guy” that knows it all and every other 2nd amendment supporting citizen is simply not as smart as you… well at least in your mind. Well, guess what Einstein. I being just a dumb George Zimmerman lowlife idiot had the common scene after my adrenalin settled a bit to call the police back and remind them of the location each encounter occurred and that there were traffic cameras in each spot where the conflict(s) occurred. They reviewed the footage which corroborated my “story” and are now encouraging me to press charges. Lucky… Yes! Lesson learned from this situation…Yes!
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Oh, and “BC”, How’s that for “Witnesses” and “Bull$h1t”!!!!!
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BTW… This makes my 6th post so I’m only 7669 post away from being as smart and cool as you. ;-)

You must understand one thing at the 6th post. This place is full of new posters who show up with an incredible and detailed story looking to bait the anti-gun argument. That post smacked of the same. I thought you were "that guy." If it's legit, accept my apologies. But as a certified PP instructor I recommend taking a course. If you're going to carry a gun you need to understand the behavioral model encouraged by every good PP course. It begins with doing everything in your power to avoid the confrontation. Had you shot him a whole new world of hurt would open-up. You'll likely be arrested. Your guns may be taken pending the outcome of the case. You may find yourself indicted if you participated in the escalation of the incident. You could be found guilty. And even if not, depending on the state you may be sued. The result is financial ruin. And unless the public raises money to help you may spend your retirement money, equity in your home and kids' college funds trying to remain free.
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One course I teach is "Personal Protection in the Home." People always think the course teaches them how to fight in the home. That's only a small part of the course. Primarily they're taught how to harden the home, make it unattractive for targeting, how to setup safe areas within the home and how to gather the family and lock down until police arrive. Most would rather search their home and confront the burglar at gunpoint, which is the worst thing they could do for their family.
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Take the courses PPOTH and PPITH as a minimum. And accept my apology if I offended you.

 

[Srilee]

Hooten, thank you for the advice. I have spoken to my attorney and my firearms instructor and both have stated reasons for and against filing a restraining order however in the end they both agree that it might be best to try and let this situation go and not provoke any further aggression from this individual.
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FYI…We did conduct a background check and did not find any prior felony convictions on the other party which is mildly comforting.
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Thank you for he posting advice. Sorry I’m new

 

[Srilee]

BC1, I’m definitely not that guy. Thank you for the apology and I owe you the same for my comments so I apologize as well. Being new to the forum I can certainly understand that there might be some that might toss bait out to group. For what it’s worth I got mostly the same lecture from my instructor. I’m fortunate and grateful and have certainly learned a valuable lesson.

 

[BC1]

Hooten, thank you for the advice. I have spoken to my attorney and my firearms instructor and both have stated reasons for and against filing a restraining order however in the end they both agree that it might be best to try and let this situation go and not provoke any further aggression from this individual.
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FYI…We did conduct a background check and did not find any prior felony convictions on the other party which is mildly comforting.
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Thank you for he posting advice. Sorry I’m new

I agree. you sure don't want him to know your address. He's not a felon now but I guess they all have to start somewhere.

 

[arikk]

I have been in a situation where a guy was following me twice. The first time a cop was in a parking lot and I pulled up next to him and the guy fleed. The second time he followed me right to the police Station, again they fleed. I know where the police station their cars for patrol. And I know where police department is in each city I drive. I made it appoint to familiarize myself. Also had one time I told the aggressor That I was calling 911 and showed my phone doing so, they fleed. I have my town and the next town police departments in my contacts on my phone. One reason I live on the borders. I try never to put myself where I am in a position where I can come in contact with aggressor.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[ccwaz]

Seems like most of the advice here has been pretty good. I would avoid going directly to the school - now he knows where your kids go to school. Be the first one to call 911, since the first one has the advantage of credibility with the dispatcher.
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I know, one hates to be boo-boo-hooing to the cops over every idiot who does the brakey-brakey in front of you, but this guy was really pushing it and he had actually assaulted you more than once.
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Remember, assault doesn't require physical contact: the threatening gestures and attempts to force you off the road and his approaching your vehicle in a threatening manner, together with the statements of intended harm and the fact that he was armed all together mean that he had expressed intent, he possessed the means, and was within striking distance so that opportunity was established. That combination constitutes assault in most jurisdictions. That doesn't mean it's okay to blow him away, but it is certainly grounds for a call to 911.
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If you're late getting your kids, the school administrators will understand. You can ask the 911 operator to call them and let them know you're going to be late so that you don't have to break the contact with the dispatcher while the threat continues.

 

[Eidolon]

I thought you were "that guy."

I still think he's That guy"