Boyscouts

[RC10]

I was at a Boy Scout meeting tonight in a rural area. (Los Padres National Forest in California) I went almost the whole night Open/Carrying, when a gentleman came in and told me I couldn't carry my gun at a Boy Scout function. It was not loaded, but the gentleman said because it was a Boy Scout function I could not Open/Carry. Everyone at the function;(dads, moms, grandparents); had no problems with it, said they felt safe. Does anybody out there know if this is true & I can't Open/Carry at Boy Scout function in a rural area: camping, BBQ's, etc.? There is less than 3,000 people who live in this rural area.

 

[LMulcahy]

There is no law in CA (that I am aware of) that states anything about not having a legal firearm in the presence of scouts. There is a BSA policy that does:

Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction,
firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting
activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a
certified BSA or National Rifle Association firearms instructor.

But that is not a state or federal law. Only the organizations rule. So unless you are on BSA owned property there's not much they can really do.

 

[Felix]

So unless you are on BSA owned property there's not much they can really do.

I'm not in a BSA leadership role but it would seem to me if the national organizational bylaws prohibit firearms at BSA-sanctioned events, they'd be on solid ground...even if the event wasn't on BSA owned or leased properties.

Legally, what's the underlying difference between the scouts metaphorically putting up a 'no firearms allowed' sign and a local restaurant doing the same thing in an OC state? In the latter case, you'd be guilty of trespassing if entering with a weapon; I don't know if that'd also apply to a BSA event on public National Forest property when there are organizational rules against possession, especially after being advised (apparently correctly) of the prohibition.

I don't see why the BSA organization couldn't prohibit adults from bringing firearms on BSA camping and hiking activities or to unit meetings without risk of retribution. Anyone who doesn't feel they can comply need not apply. Just my thoughts as a layperson.

 

[Glock Fan]

When I sat through the week long oh so painful National Camp School at Camp Tracy, UT to serve as a Shooting Sports Director, we were told that regardless of our permitted status, firearms were prohibited on property except for in specific designated areas (rifle range, shotgun shooting range, etc.). Even sworn LEO who were attending needed to secure their firearms since they weren't on duty. That was the "rules" as told to us by the camp director, National BSA representatives and the folks teaching our NRA Instructor classes. They didn't search our gear, pat us down or have us walk through any metal detectors, so if you concealed properly, I'm sure nobody would have known.

Many large organizations make rules for liability purposes. Should you be caught violating the rules, YOU as an individual would be responsible for facing the consequences.



gf

 

[santa]

It is true that many orginazations do prohibit gun because of liability insurance. If you are carrying on private property and asked to leave because of your gun you would have to. On a camping trip in the national forrest? I think the most that they could do was excumicate you from the group. Now if the BSA had rented or reserved an area from the forest service I think that they would have the right to ask you to leave. At the risk of making some people mad I think that this was a time to conceal carry not open carry. Then nobody knows and there is no problem. But I also realize that you are in California where in some counties a CCW is harder to get than mercy from the Internal Revenue Service.

 

[Unfettered Might]

There is a big difference between a private property owner and an event organizer, but it may come down to your state and/or county interpretation.

We had a similar issue here in Kentucky at the Thunder over Louisville event. The event organizer tried to ban weapons but the state told them they could not and I'm sure they pay a fee to the city to use the public property for equipment and concession stands. But we also have a preemption law in place and OC is constitutionally protected here.

What is PATHETIC is that someone from the BOY SCOUTS is inhibiting your rights. They of all, should be working to inform the youngsters of their future rights by example and these people are affiliated with the NRA?

Which brings me to the other problem, the fact that our youth are not educated on their rights as adults, the Constitution, or the Founding fathers. These things should be paramount in this country, but the socialist cancer has had it's grip on the Department of Education for a very long time now. Instead they focus on things like civil rights and women's liberation in social studies, which are not nearly as important. They've been slowly indoctrinating our kids for a few generations now into their way of thinking. This has to stop!

Another member posed the question, "What happened to people over in the Europe to allow disarmament?"

THEIR CHILDREN (who are adults now) WERE INDOCTRINATED AS THE PARENTS NAIVELY STOOD BY!

We as parents and as a country need to wake up to this and put an end to it.

 

[Felix]

Interesting viewpoint, Unfettered Might. Do you suppose there are enough who share it for the idea get sufficient traction to force a change in BSA policy?

 

[Unfettered Might]

Interesting viewpoint, Unfettered Might. Do you suppose there are enough who share it for the idea get sufficient traction to force a change in BSA policy?

I have no idea, I'd like to think that enough parents give a damn about this country to properly educate their children to it's history and their birthrights since our education system refuses to. But the perpetuation of this socialist cancer that plagues our society has me wondering.

Even when I went to school, I was taught this country was a Democracy and it's not, it's a Democratic Republic and there is a DISTINCT difference. Personally I'm angry that the people responsible for educating me, just happen to leave that detail out. I've learned more about our country's history as an adult than I ever did as a child. Social Studies was always more focused on civil rights, women's lib and African American history than it was on AMERICAN history, the lives and contributions of our forefathers and that what REALLY matters is strict adherence to the Constitution and the continuation of OUR way of life, screw the minute details of history or the rest of the world.

Ponder this, women's lib was more about destroying the nuclear family, increasing the tax base and removing children from the primary influence of their parents. Sure it did some good things for women, but that was the cloak of secrecy for the real intentions, the inevitable destruction of the American way of life.

Social(ist) programs such as welfare actually punish parents for staying together. If a mother is receiving financial assistance and the father is found to be living under the same roof, they cut her off. So they have perpetuated the vast numbers of fatherless households in this country, creating an exponential sea of men who think it is ok to abandon their responsibilities because that's how they grew up. Something along the lines of 3/4s of the prison population grew up in fatherless homes, in turn creating more crime, paving the way for stricter laws on our freedoms.

All this goes much deeper than what I've typed here.

Some would say I am a conspiracy theorist, but if you can't see the connections, then you are a complete idiot and I do not welcome your council.

If the BSA won't do it, then we need an organization that focuses on teaching people, children and adults alike, the BIG picture of whats going on and the importance of a family with morals and structure. We need policy changes in welfare to promote keeping families together and working to get them self sufficient and productive. We also need policy changes in the Department of Education to enforce teaching our history as a country, what that history means and where we need to go as a country based on the ideologies set forth by our forefathers, or all is going to be lost.

 

[Unfettered Might]

That was the whole point around www.spiralscouts.com bringing traditional values back into scouting.

That's a .org and I went and read their mission. It's not the kind of group I'm talking about at all. Where did they talk about traditional values? Being non discriminatory in sexual orientation means that they don't necessarily care about a proper man/woman upbringing for children. Sure they have a man and women heading each group, but I don't see a homosexual enforcing values that aren't their own. Big FAIL. They don't focus on our country's history, or teaching about the Constitution. I don't see the point in teaching about all mythologies and I'm not saying that I'd want the group I envision, being based in Christianity. Christian values can just be good values, they don't have to have any denomination attached.

 

[RedLegRider]

Several years ago the church I used to attend asked me if I wanted to be a assistant scout master. I took the job.
During a summer hiking, camping activity I had taken my carry sidearm with me as usuall. After the leader noticed I was wearing it, I was told because this was a Boy Scout funtion I could not have a firearm around the boys due to safety concerns. I told him I always carried it and he gave me a funny look and asked, "you have carried it at all the scout functions?"...I replied yes. He told me I had to leave it in my vehicle while we were there.
The area we were in was national forest and we were taking a two mile hike into wilderness area. The grizzly bear precense is very high there and he wants me to leave my firearm in the vehicle?
I grew up in this area my whole life and know the mountains well. To go anywhere without protection to me is ridiculous whether it's on or off the mountain.
I told him I was leaving and he could find another asst. scout master. My twelve year old son at the time who was with me even agreed that being on the mountain in griz country without a gun for protection was stupid.

 

[Unfettered Might]

Several years ago the church I used to attend asked me if I wanted to be a assistant scout master. I took the job.
During a summer hiking, camping activity I had taken my carry sidearm with me as usuall. After the leader noticed I was wearing it, I was told because this was a Boy Scout funtion I could not have a firearm around the boys due to safety concerns. I told him I always carried it and he gave me a funny look and asked, "you have carried it at all the scout functions?"...I replied yes. He told me I had to leave it in my vehicle while we were there.
The area we were in was national forest and we were taking a two mile hike into wilderness area. The grizzly bear precense is very high there and he wants me to leave my firearm in the vehicle?
I grew up in this area my whole life and know the mountains well. To go anywhere without protection to me is ridiculous whether it's on or off the mountain.
I told him I was leaving and he could find another asst. scout master. My twelve year old son at the time who was with me even agreed that being on the mountain in griz country without a gun for protection was stupid.

Good for you and your son, excellent example you both were setting.