I have been wanting to build a bolt action gun for awhile, but i am wanting to know whats a good way to get started since i have never built a gun before. The gun will be mainly for target and competition but will also get sometime as a hunting rifle. What round should i look at? Good parts supply places? Any advise? Thanks in advance!
Bolt-Action Gun Building
- Thread starter Dog5911
- Start date
awatkins1984
New member
As I see it, there are two options when it comes to building your first firearm (of any variety). You can either pick a gun you are passionate about and don't care how long it takes you to find all the bits because it's a labor of love, or you can choose a gun that you can find parts for easily but don't particularly care about so when you make mistakes it isn't a big deal.
Stripped AR receivers (not bolt action, but stick with me) are pretty plentiful and anyone should be able to get their hands on the parts. There are all sorts of guides and walkthroughs for building one from parts. If you screw up, strip a screw or lose a spring, the parts are everywhere and you can fix it.
Locally I can buy a barreled Type 38 Arisaka receiver (with Chrysanthemum) for less than $20 (Jolar Armory, New Kensington, PA, a google search will yeild a phone number if anyone wants one). Parts are fairly plentiful online, and there is a lot of really cool history behind it. Being a history buff, I went this route and assembled one myself. Total project cost was just under 200 (and 50 of that was shipping various pieces). Now finding shootable ammo is a whole other story, it is not something everyone has in stock and can run $1 per round unless you reload.
I wish I could give you a list of links and sources, but you'll have to be a bit more specific than "bolt action rifle" before I can help there. What are you looking for? What draws you to building your own rifle?
Stripped AR receivers (not bolt action, but stick with me) are pretty plentiful and anyone should be able to get their hands on the parts. There are all sorts of guides and walkthroughs for building one from parts. If you screw up, strip a screw or lose a spring, the parts are everywhere and you can fix it.
Locally I can buy a barreled Type 38 Arisaka receiver (with Chrysanthemum) for less than $20 (Jolar Armory, New Kensington, PA, a google search will yeild a phone number if anyone wants one). Parts are fairly plentiful online, and there is a lot of really cool history behind it. Being a history buff, I went this route and assembled one myself. Total project cost was just under 200 (and 50 of that was shipping various pieces). Now finding shootable ammo is a whole other story, it is not something everyone has in stock and can run $1 per round unless you reload.
I wish I could give you a list of links and sources, but you'll have to be a bit more specific than "bolt action rifle" before I can help there. What are you looking for? What draws you to building your own rifle?
el maestro
New member
make sure it is legal where you live to build your own firearm. You can be in violation of federal and/or state law when manufacturing/building your own firearm.
Check this forum out. Read, Read, Read
Home Gunsmith Forums
Check this forum out. Read, Read, Read
Home Gunsmith Forums
maine04619
New member
There is NO federal law aginst building your own firearms ( with the exception of a machine gun ) You can even build NFA firearm with a stamp in hand FIRST of course. Now some STATES do have rules and laws. Most do not. Building a bolt gun is not easy you need to have a lathe and machining skills. It is however very rewarding to shoot a gun YOU built form a chunk of metal.
Blackthorn
New member
I would choose a Remington 700. They are a great bolt action to work with. They are reliable, readily available, and there are plenty of goodies to go with it. As for caliber it really depends on the end use. I prefer 308 for an all round cartridge. Accurate wth multiple bullet weights.
A suggestion for you is to buy a used rifle and enhance it. Practice you pillar bedding, scope mounting, trigger, firing pin, and spring replacements. This simple step will help you understand building a rifle and getting what you want out of your next one.
Don't buy cheap junk to work with. You will be sorry. I have found that surplus military actions not really worth alot of time. Start with and stick with good quality actions.
A suggestion for you is to buy a used rifle and enhance it. Practice you pillar bedding, scope mounting, trigger, firing pin, and spring replacements. This simple step will help you understand building a rifle and getting what you want out of your next one.
Don't buy cheap junk to work with. You will be sorry. I have found that surplus military actions not really worth alot of time. Start with and stick with good quality actions.
If you are going top build a bolt gun, the first thing you need is an action.
Montana has some nice ones, 3 position safety, good machining.
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You will need a barrel and you can wait 4-6 months or longer, what taper, what twist. Krieger has a nice barrels
Home
I have an Obermeyer on one rifle, I took it Antelope hunting this year, a very nice barrel. You may wait a year or more for one of his barrels.
Stocks, McMillian makes a very nice ones, well made. you may wait 4 months for that.
You did not say what you were using it for, compition, but what kind?
Montana has some nice ones, 3 position safety, good machining.
Link Removed
You will need a barrel and you can wait 4-6 months or longer, what taper, what twist. Krieger has a nice barrels
Home
I have an Obermeyer on one rifle, I took it Antelope hunting this year, a very nice barrel. You may wait a year or more for one of his barrels.
Stocks, McMillian makes a very nice ones, well made. you may wait 4 months for that.
You did not say what you were using it for, compition, but what kind?
maine04619
New member
Really? I know many smiths including myself who still build superb rifles with a old Mauser rifle for a base. A friend of mine just finished one in 300 blackout and is a great performer.
Blackthorn
New member
There is nothing wrong with a Mauser action but it really is a sows ear. They can be turned into a silk purse but it takes a lot of work. In my neck of the woods not many if any gunsmiths use Mauser actions. Most of the guys I know that build long range hard shooting rifles use Remington, Winchester, or Dakota actions.
I have built two Mauser actioned rifles and am actually working on the third. First was a 7mm Mag, Second 30-06, and this one will be a 338 Win Mag. Actually after what I will put into it I might break even What I find with Mausers is you really need to know how to pick them. Plus if this is your first build it wouldn't be my first choice. They are a strong action but have a break in the rail for the stripper clip. This does weaken for heavy magnum calibers. If you decide on a magnum caliber you'll have to modify the extractor and bolt face. You will need a upright milling machine or a quality lathe. Not something that should b approached by an untrained home gunsmith.
Barrel replacement is relatively easy. Unless you send it out you'll need a prefit or have the machinery, tooling, and guides to do it.
Tapping for a scope mount is a pain without the proper tools. The rear ring with the hump needs to be ground off if you want to use a two piece base otherwise you have to use the single piece. The trigger needs to be replaced for something suitable for hunting or target use. The bottom metal needs to be switched out for a commercial Mauser style especially if you want to use a newer stock design. If the bolt has not been turned down or replaced it needs to be for it to work with a scope. The bolt shroud is great for military use along with the three position safety. It is big and ugly. The safety needs to be replaced to be used with a scope. Bueller makes one and works great. There is also the option of using a streamlined commercial shroud which looks ten times better than the original shroud or spend the $150 for a quality Dakota Model 70 style shroud. Then you'd better have the tools to fit it.
Lastly is metal finish. Most Mausers were made for military and not finishe to commercial standards. If you want to cerakote or parkerize it great. Move it up to a nice P&B finish you'll have hours at the bench sanding and finishing.
It is quite satisfying to take something and create a work of art that is not only beautiful to the eye but accurate.
I prefer the commercial actions with readily available parts and upgrades.
I have built two Mauser actioned rifles and am actually working on the third. First was a 7mm Mag, Second 30-06, and this one will be a 338 Win Mag. Actually after what I will put into it I might break even What I find with Mausers is you really need to know how to pick them. Plus if this is your first build it wouldn't be my first choice. They are a strong action but have a break in the rail for the stripper clip. This does weaken for heavy magnum calibers. If you decide on a magnum caliber you'll have to modify the extractor and bolt face. You will need a upright milling machine or a quality lathe. Not something that should b approached by an untrained home gunsmith.
Barrel replacement is relatively easy. Unless you send it out you'll need a prefit or have the machinery, tooling, and guides to do it.
Tapping for a scope mount is a pain without the proper tools. The rear ring with the hump needs to be ground off if you want to use a two piece base otherwise you have to use the single piece. The trigger needs to be replaced for something suitable for hunting or target use. The bottom metal needs to be switched out for a commercial Mauser style especially if you want to use a newer stock design. If the bolt has not been turned down or replaced it needs to be for it to work with a scope. The bolt shroud is great for military use along with the three position safety. It is big and ugly. The safety needs to be replaced to be used with a scope. Bueller makes one and works great. There is also the option of using a streamlined commercial shroud which looks ten times better than the original shroud or spend the $150 for a quality Dakota Model 70 style shroud. Then you'd better have the tools to fit it.
Lastly is metal finish. Most Mausers were made for military and not finishe to commercial standards. If you want to cerakote or parkerize it great. Move it up to a nice P&B finish you'll have hours at the bench sanding and finishing.
It is quite satisfying to take something and create a work of art that is not only beautiful to the eye but accurate.
I prefer the commercial actions with readily available parts and upgrades.
Blackthorn
New member
Just so you can see I'm not talking out of the side of my mouth. Here are a couple of photos of my current Mauser project and a couple of the Winchester M70 I just finished... I bought the Mauser in a semi a sporterized form. The only thing that will be part of the original rifle will be the receiver and bolt body......
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maine04619
New member
Mausers have a proven track record. As stated they do require certain jigs but so does Remingtons and Winchesters. Remington is the easiest to blueprint given you have the proper jigs. You can blueprint a remmy action on a few hours depending on you ability to set up for machining. Actual machine time is 45 min tops not including polishing the barrel. The big thing with bolt rifles is proper head spacing this will also require tooling in the form of QUALITY chamber reamers and a holder for them in addition to chamber gauges. This IMHO is the place where the most screw ups are made. Cost for a proper Remington blueprint and rebarrel you looking at anywhere from around 400 to 2 grand for tooling an jigs. Barrel is another wide rage from 200 to 3000 bucks depending on maker and caliber. The good part of tooling cost is once you have all the correct tooling and you are confident in your work you can make money back doing it and fund your future builds.
Here's what I did -
Buy a used Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 that had maybe 20 rounds through it - it was pristine. It's already extremely accurate as is, but it went from .80-1 MOA to .30-.50 MOA just with a couple mods. I like the 20" barrel on it, but I've been considering cutting it down to 16" and putting a brake on it, although I'd rather get some good glass before doing that.
I bought a Bell and Carlson A2 stock and a Timney 510. I haven't bedded, trued, lapped or blueprinted it yet, and am using the stock barrel. On a good day, I can put 5 rounds through almost the same hole, and on a bad day I can put five rounds inside a dime at 100yds. I also added a Atlasworxs DBM kit last November that I picked up in a group buy, and it makes things a lot easier, but is certainly not needed.
All in all, I have about $1,300 into the rifle without a scope. I had a Leupold Mark 4 on it, but sold it due to needing funds. It currently has a $60 Wal-Mart Center-Point on it, but it's not a bad scope and allows me to shoot out to 500yds no problem. In the next couple months I'm going to pick up one of the $200 Primary Arms 4-16x44 scopes to throw on it, as they're great scopes for the money. Here's a photo of it right after I put the DBM kit on it a year ago:
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And this is 6 shots at 500yds with 3-5MPH winds.
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If money is of no concern: Surgeon Action, Hart or Krieger barrel chambered in 338 Lapua\300 Win Mag\6.5 Creedmore, CADEX Defense stock, Timney trigger, US Optics glass. :laugh:
You never really mentioned what kind of hunting or competition, though. Bears require a little more juice than a deer, which requires a little more oomph than a squirrel - on top of that, most of your competition rifles weigh a ton and aren't that great for hunting, especially considering if you plan on doing 500yds+, you're not going to have a 3-9x scope on it. Likewise, F-Class would require a different rifle than NRA High Power, which is a different set-up than benchrest shooting.
We could sit here and talk calibers all day, but it really depends on a plethora of variables, including but certainly not limited to: Do you reload? If not you should be. How much money do you plan on putting into this? What other calibers do you currently own?
A .308 will get you out to 1,000yds, hell I've sent a .223 out that far pretty accurately. Will a .338 Lapua get out there easier? How about a .416 Barrett, or a .50BMG, or a .300 Win mag, or a 6.5 Creedmore, or a 6.5-06 A-Square, or a 6.5-284 Norma, or a .243 AI, or a 6mmXC, or a .260 Remington (6.5-08 A-Square).. the list can go on and on of calibers that are good for 1000yds - but did you notice a common denominator? Mainly, they're based of 6.5mm bullets. Check out http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html for more into on that. A .308 will also do extremely well within 500yds as well, but again there's more accurate cartridges.
You're going to find no matter what you decide competition wise, it's probably going to be in the 6 mm, 6.5 mm, 7 mm, or .30 caliber chamberings. Now here's my question about reloading coming into play; you're not going to walk into ****'s or Wal-Mart and pick up a box of 6.5x55 Swede, and if you try to buy them online you are going to be paying through the roof.
With all of this said, it's hard to beat a Remington 700. In my personal opinion, the best models that are going to accomplish both hunting and competition well are the SPS Tactical, the 700P, and the 5R. The SPS Tactical comes in at half the price of the other two (only reason I bought it over a 700P\5R was I found a smoking deal on it used), but the stock is garbage and will need to be immediately replaced if you want to do anything serious.
Buy a used Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 that had maybe 20 rounds through it - it was pristine. It's already extremely accurate as is, but it went from .80-1 MOA to .30-.50 MOA just with a couple mods. I like the 20" barrel on it, but I've been considering cutting it down to 16" and putting a brake on it, although I'd rather get some good glass before doing that.
I bought a Bell and Carlson A2 stock and a Timney 510. I haven't bedded, trued, lapped or blueprinted it yet, and am using the stock barrel. On a good day, I can put 5 rounds through almost the same hole, and on a bad day I can put five rounds inside a dime at 100yds. I also added a Atlasworxs DBM kit last November that I picked up in a group buy, and it makes things a lot easier, but is certainly not needed.
All in all, I have about $1,300 into the rifle without a scope. I had a Leupold Mark 4 on it, but sold it due to needing funds. It currently has a $60 Wal-Mart Center-Point on it, but it's not a bad scope and allows me to shoot out to 500yds no problem. In the next couple months I'm going to pick up one of the $200 Primary Arms 4-16x44 scopes to throw on it, as they're great scopes for the money. Here's a photo of it right after I put the DBM kit on it a year ago:
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And this is 6 shots at 500yds with 3-5MPH winds.
Link Removed
If money is of no concern: Surgeon Action, Hart or Krieger barrel chambered in 338 Lapua\300 Win Mag\6.5 Creedmore, CADEX Defense stock, Timney trigger, US Optics glass. :laugh:
You never really mentioned what kind of hunting or competition, though. Bears require a little more juice than a deer, which requires a little more oomph than a squirrel - on top of that, most of your competition rifles weigh a ton and aren't that great for hunting, especially considering if you plan on doing 500yds+, you're not going to have a 3-9x scope on it. Likewise, F-Class would require a different rifle than NRA High Power, which is a different set-up than benchrest shooting.
We could sit here and talk calibers all day, but it really depends on a plethora of variables, including but certainly not limited to: Do you reload? If not you should be. How much money do you plan on putting into this? What other calibers do you currently own?
A .308 will get you out to 1,000yds, hell I've sent a .223 out that far pretty accurately. Will a .338 Lapua get out there easier? How about a .416 Barrett, or a .50BMG, or a .300 Win mag, or a 6.5 Creedmore, or a 6.5-06 A-Square, or a 6.5-284 Norma, or a .243 AI, or a 6mmXC, or a .260 Remington (6.5-08 A-Square).. the list can go on and on of calibers that are good for 1000yds - but did you notice a common denominator? Mainly, they're based of 6.5mm bullets. Check out http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html for more into on that. A .308 will also do extremely well within 500yds as well, but again there's more accurate cartridges.
You're going to find no matter what you decide competition wise, it's probably going to be in the 6 mm, 6.5 mm, 7 mm, or .30 caliber chamberings. Now here's my question about reloading coming into play; you're not going to walk into ****'s or Wal-Mart and pick up a box of 6.5x55 Swede, and if you try to buy them online you are going to be paying through the roof.
With all of this said, it's hard to beat a Remington 700. In my personal opinion, the best models that are going to accomplish both hunting and competition well are the SPS Tactical, the 700P, and the 5R. The SPS Tactical comes in at half the price of the other two (only reason I bought it over a 700P\5R was I found a smoking deal on it used), but the stock is garbage and will need to be immediately replaced if you want to do anything serious.
maine04619
New member
Upgrading the trigger and stock is great as is putting a quality scope on it. Accuracy is not one or three or 10 shots it is consistently. 100yard one hole groups are fine but these days many rifles can do this out of the box. When you rebarrel and blueprint a action put a quality stock on it and bed it properly you care insuring the rifle is going to preform the same with every shot thus putting the shooting results on the ammo and the the shooter. Cutting the barrel down to 16 inches is fine for urban or closer work but not so much for reaching out there. currently the RECORD for 1000 yards are under 3 inch group. That is right for those who are not into the high power comps 10 shots with a group size of 2.815 inches at 1000 that is one thousand yards. I assure you the rifle use has had EVERY mating surface machined to perfection. This is the difference between a stock and what a custom can be.
I realize accuracy is not defined as 5-10 shots, however I'm not going to post all 200+ photos of groups ranging from 5 rounds to 50 rounds, all making consistent groups.
Leo Anderson set the 2.815" record breaking shot with a .300WSM. It was also a 10 shot group, which according to you is not accurate. He also uses rests and bags, of which I do not and never have used, favoring to shoot solely off bipods as true field work rarely gave me time to retrieve a rifle, a front and rear sandbag or a mount. He was also using a NightForce 12-42x56mm BR scope, which at $1,500, cost more than my entire rifle. Unlike some people, I don't have the extra funds anymore to be able to justify spending $1,500+ as in the case of my Mark 4. I assure you the cheap glass of today is just as accurate and clear as the premier glass of last decade, thanks to advancements in technology.
Anyway, I've looked through the thread and don't recall you offering up your wisdom on answers pertaining to the original post's questions, only criticizing other's posts. I'd like to hear your opinions on his questions.
Blackthorn
New member
When you shoot for a world record at 1000 yards this is what you would use. Joel Prendergast used it in 2009 to shoot a 3" group. Link Removed Not quite the rifle one would envision... I am sure that Matt Kline shot a similar firearm when he broke Prendergast's record with a 2.815" at 1K....
I shot the benchrest game back in the late eighties and early nineties. I used a Remington 700 with a Shilen air gauged barrel in 6mm PPC. Action was trued and lapped. It was a tremendous amount of fun. I really learned alot about reloading and bullet preformance. Unfortunately I am left handed and there are few choices for me. The rifles I do build are right handed as it is my excuse not to keep every one I build. :wink:
Etkini,
You have started on a great build whether you replace the barrel or not. NICE JOB!!!! I would suggest that you leave the barrel at 20" and give it a good bedding job with pilars and a good quality scope mount.
Bedding is very important and can make or break your rifle. Poorly done it can destroy accuracy. Done correctly it will help get the most out of your rifle. I would suggest buying an inexpensive stock to practice on. On my heavy target rifles I will mill a slot in the forend and bed a 3/8" stainless piece of threaded rod. Adds some serious weight and strength to the forearm. I also drill through the rear of the stock at the back of the action down through the pistol grip and into the main section of the stock again bedding a 3/8" piece of stainless rod. Makes the rifle really heavy which reduces your recoil but makes it tough to carry as a hunting rifle.
Scope mounts are my next big thing. I like Talley mounts the best. The detatchable ones are rock solid just use the screw and not the lever. Next is the dual dovetail made by Leupold. No windage screws ever.... They shoot loose or bend under recoil. Great items 30 years ago for rifles that saw limited use but not designed for the the amount of shooting we do today.
Bottom metal should be removed and go with a blind magazine. Give a bit more stock for strength.
The only thing to do is find a bullet, powder, case, and primer combo is left and that is the fun part. I get the most pleasure in finding the pet load that makes it all come together.
Remignton 40-X's were all specially built. If you can find and get a deal grab it.
I shot the benchrest game back in the late eighties and early nineties. I used a Remington 700 with a Shilen air gauged barrel in 6mm PPC. Action was trued and lapped. It was a tremendous amount of fun. I really learned alot about reloading and bullet preformance. Unfortunately I am left handed and there are few choices for me. The rifles I do build are right handed as it is my excuse not to keep every one I build. :wink:
Etkini,
You have started on a great build whether you replace the barrel or not. NICE JOB!!!! I would suggest that you leave the barrel at 20" and give it a good bedding job with pilars and a good quality scope mount.
Bedding is very important and can make or break your rifle. Poorly done it can destroy accuracy. Done correctly it will help get the most out of your rifle. I would suggest buying an inexpensive stock to practice on. On my heavy target rifles I will mill a slot in the forend and bed a 3/8" stainless piece of threaded rod. Adds some serious weight and strength to the forearm. I also drill through the rear of the stock at the back of the action down through the pistol grip and into the main section of the stock again bedding a 3/8" piece of stainless rod. Makes the rifle really heavy which reduces your recoil but makes it tough to carry as a hunting rifle.
Scope mounts are my next big thing. I like Talley mounts the best. The detatchable ones are rock solid just use the screw and not the lever. Next is the dual dovetail made by Leupold. No windage screws ever.... They shoot loose or bend under recoil. Great items 30 years ago for rifles that saw limited use but not designed for the the amount of shooting we do today.
Bottom metal should be removed and go with a blind magazine. Give a bit more stock for strength.
The only thing to do is find a bullet, powder, case, and primer combo is left and that is the fun part. I get the most pleasure in finding the pet load that makes it all come together.
Remignton 40-X's were all specially built. If you can find and get a deal grab it.
Thank you very much. I haven't bedded yet as I really haven't found much need to yet, but it is in the works although I want to change the stock to an A1 model and put a Tubb lug on it before I do so. I've had the rifle for about 3 years now, and it's been great to me ever since, especially during competitions. It's also used a hunting rifle, so at the 10-14 pounds or so it weighs in now it's still a ***** to haul around the woods. As for scope rail, it currently has a Badger 0 MOA rail with a section milled out to make it easier to load before I had the DBM kit. It also helps with extractions. The scope rings are a steel set I got somewhere, although I can't remember the name they work well - about as well as the Seekins it once sported. I also didn't notice a reduction in accuracy when I installed the DBM kit, but also I didn't have to remove much (9-10 thou, actually) of the aluminum block during installation.
I've also been lucky enough to find the load my rifle loves, and quickly too - 168gr Hornady or Sierra BTHP on 41.25gr Varget (32.5 for general paper killing, easier on brass) with a Federal GM210M primer, 2.810" OAL. I experimented with Barnes 175gr BTHP for better BC and Hornady 165gr SSTs for hunting with no luck, but thankfully the 168s have been good for hunting as well. General loading is done with Lake City brass, all match loads are done with brand new Hornady Match brass. The only issue is the SPS Tactical's lands are farther than the bullet can reach, the only way around it is to use a foam plug in the brass and seat the bullet manually, but I didn't notice enough of a difference to do this and instead just seat the bullet normally. I've also considered cutting the chamber end of the barrel, re-chambering and re-threading as some have done in the past, but I'll be getting a Krieger\Lilja\Hart barrel once I shoot out what's on it now anyway.
As usual, the only thing holding me back is funds available.
Blackthorn
New member
I feel your pain about funding. That is why my newest build is on on a hold status. I need to buy about $300 worth of parts and pieces to put this Mauser build to bed and that doesn't even include finishing.
Bedding will just tighten the groups you already are getting. It is worth the effort. I pillar bed every rifle I build. Afterwards I torque it the action screws down to 60 in/lbs. Stock crush is a factor that most don't even think about. Never have gone wrong with a good bedding job. There are plenty of great references out there. I use Score High. They make pillars that are hard to beat. You can save a few pennies if you buy direct. I believe Brownells sells their products too.
Sounds like you have a great load going. I spend a lot of time creating loads. I find the one that works then start going up and down by points of a grain and zero it in. Have you tried Berger VLD's? Brownells sells a specialized 12 pack for load development. Better than having to buy a whole box. I find the VLD's fly pretty straight. Long bullets so if your magazine well is long enough you can really push them. I always found that IMR 4064 shot really well out of my 308's. Nice and slow burner to develop a good powder spike. My PPC really liked Hodgden powders. I use the Reloader series with Barnes bullets but have found that Alliant powders tend to be tempermental with temperature changes. I find the warmer it is the looser the group becomes. Colder brings it together. Barnes also foul the hell out of the bore though.
Your mounts sounds like they are good to go. I stay away from aluminum on scope mounts as there is just too much flex during recoil. Your scope is a key part of of the build. I have used some pretty crappy scopes and learned my lessons. Quality equates accuracy..
My personal hunting rifle is a Winchester M70 that has been completely tricked out. It is a 300 Win Mag with CRF(left handed of course). I have pillar bedded it, has an African ebony forend tip, all steel bottom metal with an Orbendorf style release, crossbolts, and a steel grip cap. With all the steel in it it tips the scale at just under 11lbs. Heavy to carry but recoil is not bad to me. It is a hunting rifle and I can touch three bullets at 100 yards with a 180gr Nosler Partition with 73grs of IMR 4831.... Primers and cases are the key here though.
Good luck with your build.
Shoot Straight....................
Bedding will just tighten the groups you already are getting. It is worth the effort. I pillar bed every rifle I build. Afterwards I torque it the action screws down to 60 in/lbs. Stock crush is a factor that most don't even think about. Never have gone wrong with a good bedding job. There are plenty of great references out there. I use Score High. They make pillars that are hard to beat. You can save a few pennies if you buy direct. I believe Brownells sells their products too.
Sounds like you have a great load going. I spend a lot of time creating loads. I find the one that works then start going up and down by points of a grain and zero it in. Have you tried Berger VLD's? Brownells sells a specialized 12 pack for load development. Better than having to buy a whole box. I find the VLD's fly pretty straight. Long bullets so if your magazine well is long enough you can really push them. I always found that IMR 4064 shot really well out of my 308's. Nice and slow burner to develop a good powder spike. My PPC really liked Hodgden powders. I use the Reloader series with Barnes bullets but have found that Alliant powders tend to be tempermental with temperature changes. I find the warmer it is the looser the group becomes. Colder brings it together. Barnes also foul the hell out of the bore though.
Your mounts sounds like they are good to go. I stay away from aluminum on scope mounts as there is just too much flex during recoil. Your scope is a key part of of the build. I have used some pretty crappy scopes and learned my lessons. Quality equates accuracy..
My personal hunting rifle is a Winchester M70 that has been completely tricked out. It is a 300 Win Mag with CRF(left handed of course). I have pillar bedded it, has an African ebony forend tip, all steel bottom metal with an Orbendorf style release, crossbolts, and a steel grip cap. With all the steel in it it tips the scale at just under 11lbs. Heavy to carry but recoil is not bad to me. It is a hunting rifle and I can touch three bullets at 100 yards with a 180gr Nosler Partition with 73grs of IMR 4831.... Primers and cases are the key here though.
Good luck with your build.
Shoot Straight....................
maine04619
New member
You miss the point. I am in no way saying a group is not a example. I was pointing out CONSISTENCY meaning with the given weapon the location, elevation or temp can change but first shot or 100th shot the poa and poi remain the same. As for optics a general rule is that unless your shooting highpower or other such comp the optics will run you as much or more then the the rifle did. You assertion that today's "cheap optics" is a s accurate as high end form the past decade tells me you do not have much experience with good glass. I have a Unertl on a 700 in 22.250 that is 50 plus years old I would put up modern "cheap" glass. FYI the Rifle MR Anderson used cost in the neighborhood of 8 grand to build.
I have in my responses. The op asked about "building a bolt rifle" as I have stated you much have machining skills and equipment to do this. Changing a trigger out or adding a scope is not building a rifle. However that would appear to be what this thread had become. Personally If I am building a rifle from a starter rifle I like the 700's but if I am starting from scratch I like start with a bat action then barrel maker depends on caliber and couture stocks I almost always go with McMillan. Then as every other builder out there who building quality top it off with QUALITY glass. Lets take Nightforce as the example put it up against any counterpoint scope. At 100 yards you can see the difference in clarity at 1000 yards the he difference is night and day. This is why if you go to CP for the HP comp you will not see any "cheap glass" for good reason.
I think you misread my posts. I don't recall ever suggesting to anyone that putting a $60 scope on a $1,500 was a good idea for shooting F-class or High Power. What I did say, is that it works for me for the time being and has put food in my freezer for the past year. I also said I do not have the funds to purchase a $1,500+ scope at the time being, and thus it sports a $60 scope, which has for me held zero and been dependable. I'm not doing F-class matches, I'm not killing people in the sandbox at half a mile away, I'm killing paper, coyotes and deer. Bambi isn't going to pat me on the back and say "hey, nice scope," nor is the paper. I don't need a Leupold Mark 4 on it anymore, as I'm not carrying it in the back of my patrol car in the event I need to take out a BG in a hostage situation. You're right, you won't see a "cheap" scope in a nationals competition, but I also don't win money or equipment at my local competitions, only the training and satisfaction that comes out of it.
I've seen shooters with $15,000 builds who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if they were 5 feet away. More important than any piece of equipment is marksmanship, and as long as my "cheap" piece of **** scope is putting food on my table, you can guarantee it will remain mounted until I save up again for another Leupold.
Also, "build" to different people means different things. "Building" an AR-15 is no more than screwing a few parts together, however it's still considered "building." "Building" an AK-47 from a stamping is "building," however you're still not machining the parts. Most of us don't have $15k to drop on a good 20x60" 3-phase lathe, either.
I've seen shooters with $15,000 builds who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if they were 5 feet away. More important than any piece of equipment is marksmanship, and as long as my "cheap" piece of **** scope is putting food on my table, you can guarantee it will remain mounted until I save up again for another Leupold.
Also, "build" to different people means different things. "Building" an AR-15 is no more than screwing a few parts together, however it's still considered "building." "Building" an AK-47 from a stamping is "building," however you're still not machining the parts. Most of us don't have $15k to drop on a good 20x60" 3-phase lathe, either.
maine04619
New member
Building is NOT the same as assembling parts. You can BUILD a firearms from chunks of metal and hand tools. There are several forums out there that show this all the time. Definition of BUILDING the art or business of assembling materials into a structure Definition of ASSEMBLY the fitting together of manufactured parts into a complete machine, structure, or unit of a machine
Blackthorn
New member
Maybe we should move away from calling it "building" and call what it really should be called and that is "Customizing". This is a much more appropriate description of what we all try to do for our clients. It mainy goes to the functionability of the firearm and your clients desires. We should not snub our noses at one another but look at what we each bring to the table. Etkini was describing what he had accomplished on the rifle he bought and the what he would like to do to make it better. He never suggested cheap optics but explained why he had replaced his with something temporary. I would love to tell my clients that Swaroski was the way to go but they are out of the reach of most. I use Leupold exclusively and like what I get from them. Optics are important but any glass is better than nothing. One will learn to want a better scope and its benefits. Etkini has said he will put better optics on his rifle but right now what he has works.
After two years of gunsmith school and some apprenticeship time I am able to take a raw action, barrel, and wood blank and create a fine rifle that will shoot far better than most of my clients can ever shoot. Does it bother me? No it really does not as they are happy with the work I have done. Do I critize those who try on their own to make something they have better? No I do not. I try to help or guide them. It makes me a better "smith" and furthers my reputation as an honest "smith".
Lighten up a bit Maine....
After two years of gunsmith school and some apprenticeship time I am able to take a raw action, barrel, and wood blank and create a fine rifle that will shoot far better than most of my clients can ever shoot. Does it bother me? No it really does not as they are happy with the work I have done. Do I critize those who try on their own to make something they have better? No I do not. I try to help or guide them. It makes me a better "smith" and furthers my reputation as an honest "smith".
Lighten up a bit Maine....
