Black Talons

[longslide10]

Another post made me think of this. How many of you remember Black Talon ammo? Well I have some, purchased before they were wrongfully banned by the whiny lib/dems as cop killer ammo. I wonder what the DA would say about the use of them in a self defense situation where the bg died? Would he/she then twist the facts to suit the court and make me out to be some renegade vigilante criminal because I used banned ammo that I legally purchased b4 the ban or do you think they would not even consider the type of ammo used? I may place a call to my county DA and Sheriff to find the answer and if I do I'll post the results

 

[sheppsj]

I use the Winchester Ranger T. I believe it to be the same bullet minus the Teflon coating. I've also wondered the same question.

 

[longslide10]

Don't cops use that ammo?

 

[fuhr52]

As long as you considered the plight of the bad guy and understood the hard life he has had to endure and what drove him to attack you. I'm sure the DA would at that point consider your act as self defense. On the other hand the DA may be running for re-election and you bought this ammo, even though legal at the time, to kill some one.

 

[Phillip Gain]

Black Talons were never banned!!

Another post made me think of this. How many of you remember Black Talon ammo? Well I have some, purchased before they were wrongfully banned by the whiny lib/dems as cop killer ammo. I wonder what the DA would say about the use of them in a self defense situation where the bg died? Would he/she then twist the facts to suit the court and make me out to be some renegade vigilante criminal because I used banned ammo that I legally purchased b4 the ban or do you think they would not even consider the type of ammo used? I may place a call to my county DA and Sheriff to find the answer and if I do I'll post the results

Black Talon bullets were never banned, or in any way made illegal.

Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. Subsequently, one of the shooting victim's family members filed a lawsuit against Olin, Inc, trying to hold them responsible for the victim's death. The lawsuit, however, was dismissed.

Winchester discontinued the public sale of Black Talon line of ammunition later in 1993. In 2000, they discontinued the line entirely. The current Ranger SXT ammunition is the same as the Black Talons, but without the black lubalox coating.

Source:
Black Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ricardo900]

Don't cops use that ammo?

Yes, "Winchester Ranger" many police agencies use that ammo and Winchester puts "Law Enforcement Ammunition" on the box, implying this ammunition is for Law Enforcement officers only and some gun places won't sell it to civilians.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Another post made me think of this. How many of you remember Black Talon ammo? Well I have some, purchased before they were wrongfully banned by the whiny lib/dems as cop killer ammo. I wonder what the DA would say about the use of them in a self defense situation where the bg died? Would he/she then twist the facts to suit the court and make me out to be some renegade vigilante criminal because I used banned ammo that I legally purchased b4 the ban or do you think they would not even consider the type of ammo used? I may place a call to my county DA and Sheriff to find the answer and if I do I'll post the results

Just do yourself a huge favor to avoid any possible future legal hassles.
Use up the old black talon ammo during target practice somewhere and carry some 'politically correct' brand new self defense ammo like; (CorBon, HydraShocks, Critical Defense, etc.)
No need to be doubting the legality of your ammo choice imho.

 

[Oldgrunt]

As long as you considered the plight of the bad guy and understood the hard life he has had to endure and what drove him to attack you. I'm sure the DA would at that point consider your act as self defense. On the other hand the DA may be running for re-election and you bought this ammo, even though legal at the time, to kill some one.

fuhr: You are absolutely right. We must follow the example of the UK and protect those poor, mistreated and under-priviledged miscreants. After all, why should they have to do without just so you can lead a peaceful, humdrum life? They can take our lives in order to better themselves. Who would deny them those opportunities? Perish the thought!

 

[festus]

Black talons were never ever teflon coated. THAT IS A FALSEHOOD!!!!! That lie was put out by the media to demonize that round.

Black Talons were Black (in color only) Anodized for corrosion prevention and protection of the bullet and to make it feed more reliably than any other self defense round.

Winchester Lawman SXT are the to coin a phrase Same Xact Thing)

whoever is out there saying that the talon rounds are illegal, is incorrect. They are only illegal in Jersey where ALL HOLLOWPOINTS ARE BANNED FOR CIVILIAN USE without a special license from the state

 

[cpio]

Actually, hollowpoints are legal to possess in New Jersey depending on the circumstances, e.g., from the gun shop to the range, in your home or on your property, etc.

 

[longslide10]

Black Talon bullets were never banned, or in any way made illegal.

Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. Subsequently, one of the shooting victim's family members filed a lawsuit against Olin, Inc, trying to hold them responsible for the victim's death. The lawsuit, however, was dismissed.

Winchester discontinued the public sale of Black Talon line of ammunition later in 1993. In 2000, they discontinued the line entirely. The current Ranger SXT ammunition is the same as the Black Talons, but without the black lubalox coating.

Source:
Black Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Didn't know that, thought I read they were banned. Nice to know this fact.

 

[armorer1911]

HP Ammo

Actually, if your forced to defend yourself in a defensive scenario in a real life situation, the last thing you will worry about is which ammo you had in your firearm. Then again, it depends who pulled the slug out of the felon in question. Then unless medical personnel digging the slug out get injured in the process. It is easy to understand why this ammunition was and may well be, a passing fad.

 

[longslide10]

Black talons were never ever teflon coated. THAT IS A FALSEHOOD!!!!! That lie was put out by the media to demonize that round.

Black Talons were Black (in color only) Anodized for corrosion prevention and protection of the bullet and to make it feed more reliably than any other self defense round.

Winchester Lawman SXT are the to coin a phrase Same Xact Thing)

whoever is out there saying that the talon rounds are illegal, is incorrect. They are only illegal in Jersey where ALL HOLLOWPOINTS ARE BANNED FOR CIVILIAN USE without a special license from the state

Wth is up with NJ and their ridiculous laws concerning guns and ammo? Is there anyway of getting them rescinded?

 

[Rocketgeezer]

The PDX-1 ammo is very close to the Black Talon, except copper coated

 

[sheppsj]

I bought my Winchester Ranger T from ammotogo.com and cheaper than dirt sells them also. I have them in .380, 9mm and .45 all have Great expansion and have fed reliably.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Just do yourself a huge favor to avoid any possible future legal hassles.
Use up the old black talon ammo during target practice somewhere and carry some 'politically correct' brand new self defense ammo like; (CorBon, HydraShocks, Critical Defense, etc.)
No need to be doubting the legality of your ammo choice imho.

AGREE
Just use your favorite new stuff. Golden Sabre, Ranger T, Gold Dot, whatever. There is no magic bullet, shot placement is most important.= That means practice.

An eyeball hit with a 22 is better than a loud miss with a 44 magnum.

******
I have a good friend that is a deputy and he still is carrying Black Talons in his Glock 17. Most of the department is using 45 acp, don't know the bullet.

 

[CathyInBlue]

As has been said, Black Talons were never banned, just sales restricted by the manufacturer. Do they even manufacture "Black Talons" by name anymore? And as has also been stated, Black Talons and teflon coated ammo are two completely different things. Teflon coated ammo is banned, for the reason that it can neutralize the defensive capabilities of soft kevlar body armour by pushing the fibers out of the way, rather than getting caught in the weave and stopped. For this reason, only FMJ teflon coated bullets are actually effective at defeating soft kevlar, as even a teflon coated JHP would still find enough fibers snagged on its blunt nose to stop it. And, of course, no teflon coated bullet, FMJ or otherwise is going to defeat a hard kevlar trauma plate by virtue of its teflon coating.

"Cop killer" ammo is a term like "assault weapon", a fabrication by the Liberal MSM hype machine. Both Black Talons and teflon coated bullets have been tarred and feathered with the "cop killer" smear, even though no Black Talon has ever been used against a police officer of which I am aware.

As for the contention that a bullet is a "cop killer" if it has the capability of defeating soft kevlar body armour of the type used by law enforcement, as so many Liberal lawmakers attempt to stipulate in one or another of their heinously badly written bills from time to time, that would effectively ban all rifle hunting within the jurisdiction, as any proper .223 or .308 deer rifle packs enough kenetic energy at the tip of a FMJ to eat through soft kevlar like a hot knife through butter. Soft kevlar is meant to stop handgun rounds, not rifle rounds. The terminal ballistics are vastly different.

But such nuances of objective reality are lost on people who go about with "cop killer bullets" on their lips.

 

[agrippakc]

There are lots of other non-controversial ammo to use that will kill people just as quick as black talons. Seriously. there are a lot of options and our local police use speer gold dot

 

[drewoufan]

I was in the local GS today and a County LEO happen to be there shooting the breeze. A man brought in a .357 to trade and had some of those rounds in the carry case. The store owner asked the LEO if he knew what rounds they were and he knew. They talked about how great a round they were and acted like it was no biggie. So I'm assume its exactly that. No big deal.

 

[longslide10]

Well now the question is do I load them in the mags or save them for the zombie apocalypse :biggrin: