Black Talon Nonsense on NCIS: New Orleans

[bofh]

Don't ask me why I am watching this series, I guess I can't help it. Anyway, as I was watching NCIS: New Orleans today, the medical examiner mentioned Black Talon. This is not the first time the Black Talon came up on the NCIS circus.

This time, the medical examiner gets her finger cut while trying to get the bullet out of a dead body. And the discussion goes something like this: "These are Black Talon bullets. They are opening up on impact and have sharp edges. They are trying to ban these for years." Then they reference the San Francisco law office shooting by Gian Luigi Ferri in 1993.

Good lord. So much stupidity in such a short time.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I believe at one point there was a thread solely for the purpose of shows that get firearms so wrong they required a face palm...just like this one...

I enjoy watching revolvers eject shells every shot.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Peggy Reist]

I enjoy watching revolvers eject shells every shot.

No kidding??? I often have the TV on, but I seldom watch it so I've never noticed this. Dang I better start watching.

 

[bofh]

Or that cocking the hammer and/or racking the slide you hear every time a gun is drawn, even when it is clearly a Glock.

PS: I just watched RED 2 the other day, where the charter played by Mary-Louise Parker has a negligent discharge and then says something like: "Apparently no external safety on a Sig."

 

[Firefighterchen]

No kidding??? I often have the TV on, but I seldom watch it so I've never noticed this. Dang I better start watching.

That was actually a YouTube short film.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[TWright]

My favorite has always been watching trained officers on "Cops" trying to figure out how to operate a perp's weapon.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I believe at one point there was a thread solely for the purpose of shows that get firearms so wrong they required a face palm...just like this one...

I enjoy watching revolvers eject shells every shot.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

Or guns that seem to never run out of ammo?
Or when one action hero asks his sidekick to throw him another clip!!

 

[apvbguy]

Funny thing about fiction: Like Fox "News," it takes liberties with facts. That's why it's called fiction...it's entertainment, not a documentary.

let me guess, you swear by pmsnbc. here's a clue, all news outlets are ALWAYS pushing an agenda

 

[gunnerbob]

Funny thing about fiction: Like Fox "News," it takes liberties with facts. That's why it's called fiction...it's entertainment, not a documentary.

Not disagreeing that FAUX News has issues with unbiased reporting but, what's that got to do with this thread? Your political jab is off topic, lest you want to turn this thread into something else? In that case, hell yes, most MSM is entertainment for the low-brow among us. Let's not digress too far, though.

On the original subject, I don't watch any of the modern 'cop' shows, they're too full of sh!t for me to give them the time of day. I do enjoy things like '48 hours', 'Cold Case' and 'Dateline' b/c they examine factual investigations. Much more interesting than watching LL Cool J and that guy from that crappy Batman movie play 'investigators'.

 

[Firefighterchen]

If you don't watch the news your uninformed. If you do watch the news your misinformed.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[S&W645]

Don't ask me why I am watching this series, I guess I can't help it. Anyway, as I was watching NCIS: New Orleans today, the medical examiner mentioned Black Talon. This is not the first time the Black Talon came up on the NCIS circus.

This time, the medical examiner gets her finger cut while trying to get the bullet out of a dead body. And the discussion goes something like this: "These are Black Talon bullets. They are opening up on impact and have sharp edges. They are trying to ban these for years." Then they reference the San Francisco law office shooting by Gian Luigi Ferri in 1993.

Good lord. So much stupidity in such a short time.

Actually, they did try to ban Black Talon rounds. Only those who had them way back have them now. And you can still find them. The new round is called Ranger SXT and the only difference in them is the lack of the black coating. And the fact that you can get them in +p in the .45ACP.:biggrin: Spray can of lube with PTFE on the bullet makes the new round the White Talons when dried.

 

[missoak]

I like NCIS, having to do with the NAVY & The USMC in particular, I find it entertaining.
As Excutive Producer of the show, Mark Harmon & his little wife "Mindy" are pretty much
anti-gun. It shows on the story lines sometimes.

 

[bofh]

Actually, they did try to ban Black Talon rounds. Only those who had them way back have them now. And you can still find them. The new round is called Ranger SXT and the only difference in them is the lack of the black coating. And the fact that you can get them in +p in the .45ACP.:biggrin: Spray can of lube with PTFE on the bullet makes the new round the White Talons when dried.

That's my point. Black Talons are nothing else than JHP rounds. Yet they are still stories of them being super duper dangerous, and that they need to be banned. The fact is that the real NCIS agents and other LEOs carry handguns today with JHP rounds that are better performing, i.e., deadlier, than the original Black Talons. The whole Black Talon nonsense can be still found on Wikipedia, including the recent reference in the Reeva Steenkamp shooting in South Africa.

Whenever you hear these Black Talon myths portrayed on TV or in the court room, like that they are cop killer bullets designed to penetrate body armor, you know that you are dealing with an anti-gun agenda and/or a particular kind of stupid.

A good read on the Black Talon: The Gun Zone -- Black Talon Ammunition

 

[Rooster11]

Being a .45 (1911) fan I am continually perplexed by people threatening others with them on tv and movie programs. I will admit, however, that a .45 makes a pretty good club! Squeaky Fromme actually tried to assassinate President Ford with an uncocked and unloaded 45. Maybe it is only liberals that don't understand the dynamics of a 1911.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

That's my point. Black Talons are nothing else than JHP rounds.

Not entirely factual.

The BT's were the 1st generation of "New School" JHP ammo especially designed for semi-auto pistols.

Up until the BTs hit the market JHP bullet design have not changed in 30 or more years.

You can take a Remington 158gr JHP made today and it's almost identical to the ones made in 1974, heck, probably 1964.

Back to the OP: Hey! It's Hollywood, not real life! HW is NOT big on gun details because most people, even gun people know very little about gun details and facts, especially when it comes to handguns and semi-auto sporters, aka assualt weapons.


Paul

 

[Eidolon]

Actually, they did try to ban Black Talon rounds.

No they didn't The Black Talon handgun bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion.[2] The bullet included a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process,[3] (though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax) giving it an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.[4] The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.

The bullet was designed in 1991 under the supervision of Alan Corzine, who at that time was VP of research and development for Winchester.[5] The round quickly developed a reputation amongst shooters, law enforcement, and dealers as a very effective bullet, though this was likely a result of media hyperbole than test or field data from actual shootings considering the short time it was on the market. Col Leonard J. Supenski of the Baltimore County police department said "It has the stopping power that police officers need and it is less likely to ricochet or go through the bad guy,"[2] something that could be said of any reliably expanding hollow-point. And despite its unique design, the Black Talon was in fact found to be comparable in performance to conventional hollow-points. In the first shooting which brought critical media attention [6] to the Black Talon, Gian Luigi Ferri used a mixture of them and other ammunition to shoot 15 people at a San Francisco law office in 1993; nine of them died. Dr. Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[7]

In 1993 Winchester removed the ammunition from public sale but Black Talon ammunition was NEVER uniformly prohibited by US law. Winchester's Ranger SXT line of ammunition is of the same basic design.

Oh wait, sorry apparently San Francisco did ban Black Talons about 20 years after they took them off the market

http://www.guns.com/2013/04/16/san-franciscos-black-talon-ban-comes-a-little-too-late/

 

[sdprof]

The NCIS family of shows has on many occasions shown somewhat anti-gun tendencies in their misrepresentation of things. DiNozzo and Bishop at the gunshow was a biggie. Their ability to trace guns so readily another.

It's TV.


ETA: And did you catch the point where LaSalle asks his snitch (regarding the handgun he's holding), "Is that licensed?" LA doesn't have gun registration.

 

[Eidolon]

I'm kinda bummed I was going to give NCIS new orleans a shot because Scott Backula is in it. May have to rethink that

 

[XD40scinNC]

I like Scott Backula and Mark Harmon, but they are not the writers, and apparently there are some anti gun liberals on the writers staff.

I also amused at how they can always determine the owner of any gun, and within a matter of seconds. But that is OK, as it leaves the liberals believing that all guns are registered.

At least they all practice proper trigger discipline, yet their shooting stance, primary shooting hand elbow often at 90 and the back of the slide about a foot from their face. It's probably so it fits in the frame from a cinematic aspect, but I'm sure any shooter notices the poor form.

Wonder how sales of Black Talon went today :biggrin:

 

[S&W645]

No they didn't The Black Talon handgun bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion.[2] The bullet included a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process,[3] (though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax) giving it an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.[4] The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.

The bullet was designed in 1991 under the supervision of Alan Corzine, who at that time was VP of research and development for Winchester.[5] The round quickly developed a reputation amongst shooters, law enforcement, and dealers as a very effective bullet, though this was likely a result of media hyperbole than test or field data from actual shootings considering the short time it was on the market. Col Leonard J. Supenski of the Baltimore County police department said "It has the stopping power that police officers need and it is less likely to ricochet or go through the bad guy,"[2] something that could be said of any reliably expanding hollow-point. And despite its unique design, the Black Talon was in fact found to be comparable in performance to conventional hollow-points. In the first shooting which brought critical media attention [6] to the Black Talon, Gian Luigi Ferri used a mixture of them and other ammunition to shoot 15 people at a San Francisco law office in 1993; nine of them died. Dr. Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[7]

In 1993 Winchester removed the ammunition from public sale but Black Talon ammunition was NEVER uniformly prohibited by US law. Winchester's Ranger SXT line of ammunition is of the same basic design.

Oh wait, sorry apparently San Francisco did ban Black Talons about 20 years after they took them off the market

San Francisco's Black Talon Ban Comes a Little Too Late

Note the key word "tried" in my comment. Before Winchester removed the name there was a movement to get them banned. One of the names given to them was " cop killer " bullets. Another was " Black Felon " rounds. Both of those titles were used by the progressives to demean the Winchester rounds. And lead to the wholesale banning of any handgun round that the gov't decrees is a armor piercing round. The Ranger SXT is indeed the follow on to the Black Talon rounds. Its design is not much different than the BT but it lacks the lubricating coating and isn't an oxide coated bullet. There are many other rounds out there of similar design. As for trying to get them banned, 21 years ago it was in print as to that fact. High-Tech Death From Winchester - NYTimes.com Hint that it was progressives that didn't understand them is also given in Ms Leslie's statements in IN PERSON;On the Other Side of the Divide- Page 2 - New York Times