Beretta PX4sc slide came off while shooting

[patriotjed]

Wanted to post regarding an issue that a friend of mine (Ted) has experienced with his Beretta PX4 Storm sub-compact 9mm.

Last week we went to the range to get some practice in. Ted brought his PX4sc to shoot for the 2nd time since purchasing 3 weeks ago. The first time out with the PX4sc, he put 100 rounds WWB through it with no issues. About 30 rounds in on this day, the fun started.

Ted loaded a fresh magazine and popped off 3 shots. When the slide came back forward to load bullet #4, the entire slide came completely OFF the frame. The slide fell to the floor and bounced around. Understand that there was a bullet in the chamber when this happened. We determined that the takedown pin had come completely out of the frame after shot #3.

After reassembling the pistol and clearing the bullet from the chamber, Ted put the pistol up for the day. Ted took the pistol apart that night to clean and inspect it, upon which he discovered that the takedown pin would come out without being rotated the required 90 degrees. He called Beretta the next day and they sent UPS to pick up the gun and ship to the authorized repair shop.

Ted called the repair shop today and they told him that his was one of 22 PX4sc's currently in the shop for the same issue. They have contacted Italy and have new slide parts coming in to address this issue. This is apparently not an isolated incident.

Long story short, this is not a bash on Beretta. I wanted to get this info out in case there are other PX4sc owners here who may have the same issues. I will post an update once the gun is returned to Ted and he test fires it.

 

[azasadny]

Good info, thanks for sharing it!

 

[roguejesse]

Keep us updated; the Px4 is one of the guns on my wish list.

 

[DeanT]

Any reports on the full size PX4? I have a friend who is talking about getting one and would like to let them know if there are any problems. When we fired a rental PX4 at the range it seemed a very nice gun with no problems. It seemed to be a very light recoiling gun even for a 9mm.

 

[PaulIcemanMc]

Back when the "Bodyguard" from S&W came out a good friend of mine bought one and we went to shoot it at my favorite in door range. About 30 or so rounds in, the slide fell to the floor. The take down pin backed out on its own. Come to find out it was an issue with these. I have not heard if they have this fixed yet or not. I guess the turn around from Smith was fast, but who expects to have trouble with a new gun?
Sounds like Berreta has the same problem with the PX4. I think I will stick with Sig, HK, Colt, and FN for semi autos for now. Wheel guns, Smith and Wesson. Shot guns Bennelli....

 

[patriotjed]

Still waiting on word from the repair shop. I'll get the results out as soon as I can.

For the folks who asked, I would not avoid the PX4 model pistols. However, I would inspect them closely first. Gonna be lemons with every manufacturer, just a matter of which one has the most lemonade. Ha!

 

[patriotjed]

Today's update: The gun has returned from the repair shop.

The repair ticket states that the takedown pin was refitted. Ted attempted to remove the takedown pin without rotating it 90 degrees and it would not budge. That's a good sign. Ted removed the pin properly for inspection. The grooves are cut wider and much deeper into the pin now.

Here are pictures of the new pin and repair slip. Tomorrow we are planning to go put some rounds down range, and I'll report again after that.

Link Removed

Link Removed

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I know your Beretta was most likely repaired correctly and will probably work fine from here on out, but I had a Khar CW-45, with the same problem, sort of after 3 or 4 rds the takedown pin would work itself out just far enough to cause the pistol to loose its trigger control, took it back to the gun shop I got it from, " and I know this is the exception with gun dealers" but he offered money back, send and get repaired, another new Khar, or trade for Glock 36, I took the Glock, once something like that happens I have a difficult time trusting one, i know it may not be what everybody does, but if a gun falls apart on me for whatever reason, it gone, repaired, sold, traded, or whatever, but in the end I will not every carry it

 

[patriotjed]

Just got back from the range. Ted shot 200 rounds through the gun with no issues. All seems to be well with the gun.

Kudos to Mark's Outdoor Sports for the fix, quick turnaround, and very good communication.

Rocketgeezer, I completely understand. Reliability and dependability of your weapon in a SD event are vital.

 

[NRA Lifer and Proud]

Having met the US VP of Beretta I am sure he had some input once this issue started raising its ugly head.

I have talked with him on numerous occasions for various reasons but the one that really stands out was I had two 92FS's that were used to test products for a Government contract. When I inquired into replacements he asked why. I said "well, I have over 90,000 rounds through one and over 65,000 rounds through the other and they can't last forever". He was floored that they had lasted that long and wanted to know what I had done to get such high round counts through them. He already knew I was the Armorer for this company so when I told him I rebuilt them every 6,000 rounds or so during their time with me he mentioned that he had seen in reports LOTS of spare parts ordered by me and now knew why! I had already worn out two previous 92FS's and needed a specific version of the frame, one not available to the civilian market anymore so he said he would contact the LE/Military side of the factory and get me new ones. All he asked was for me to send back the old ones so they could look them over. They were totally beat, frames were wearing and starting to show cracks in non-critical areas but I never felt unsafe shooting them, not after all they had been through. I had to keep using them until the replacements arrived.

Their customer service has always been top notch for me and will gladly keep doing business with Beretta.

As a side note, I had the same issues with the Bodyguard series as one of the posters, and they were still trying to resolve that issue when I left my former company. I did not know at that time that some of the early version actually got shipped to users before that problem was fixed.

 

[JeepFreak]

FWIW, I've got a Px4 Compact (not SubCompact) and the take-down lever is COMPLETELY different. Mine requires you to pull down on a small lever, on both sides of the frame, not turn anything or pull anything out. The lever is located where your trigger finger would rest when not on the trigger. I'm not sure what style the fullsize version has, but I thought it would be helpful to note that the Compact couldn't be effected by the same issue.
HTH. Thanks for posting this info,
Billy

 

[disneyr]

I have a Glock 19 I bought in 1988 (several factory upgrades and free re-surface coating from Glock). It has always functioned flawlessly and I like the design of the Glock without the pin. I would still be carrying the 19 all the time if I hadn't gotten a 26 in 2002. A system to use when your life depends on it.

 

[disneyr]

I carried and shot many, many rounds through M9 Berettas in the Army. I didn't ever want to buy one for personal use. The M9 Berettas had problems wearing out rather quickly using the standard military 9mm ammo which I guess is or was a rather "hot" loaded round. I know personal service pistols are a point of personal preference but I guess Beretta just left a bad taste in my holster. This story isn't helping.

 

[roguejesse]

Could you please expound what you mean when you say "M9 Berettas had problems wearing out": what wears out?

I carried and shot many, many rounds through M9 Berettas in the Army. I didn't ever want to buy one for personal use. The M9 Berettas had problems wearing out rather quickly using the standard military 9mm ammo which I guess is or was a rather "hot" loaded round. I know personal service pistols are a point of personal preference but I guess Beretta just left a bad taste in my holster. This story isn't helping.

 

[disneyr]

By wearing out I mean that the M9 Berettas were having some minor and some major mechanical problems (unpredictable) that needed parts replacement long before parts replacement was anticipated. I was not an armorer so I don't know the exact parts that had to be replaced but there were mass shipments of the pistols back to Beretta and finally as I recall a lighter load was standardized for new 9mm ammo since the Army had already bought many Berettas and would have egg on the face if they went back to the 1911 .45. Damage included retention pin damage, chamber fracturing over time and some spring and slide problems. I don't recall any catastrophic failures like the gun blowing up in someone's hand or anything.

 

[JeepFreak]

By wearing out I mean that the M9 Berettas were having some minor and some major mechanical problems (unpredictable) that needed parts replacement long before parts replacement was anticipated. I was not an armorer so I don't know the exact parts that had to be replaced but there were mass shipments of the pistols back to Beretta and finally as I recall a lighter load was standardized for new 9mm ammo since the Army had already bought many Berettas and would have egg on the face if they went back to the 1911 .45. Damage included retention pin damage, chamber fracturing over time and some spring and slide problems. I don't recall any catastrophic failures like the gun blowing up in someone's hand or anything.

Right and it took the US Armed Services.... what? 35 years to figure this out? Proof or BS. Link Removed
Billy

 

[disneyr]

These malfunctions were happening between 15 and 20 years ago so it didn't take that long for the Beretta problems to arise.

 

[ImpeachObama]

It's good to see Beretta was on top of this with good customer service. It reminds me of when I had added chrome goodies to my G19. The extended slide take down lever was not right and my slide would move forward on it's on sometimes. I replaced it with a stock black Glock part and never looked back at this point.

 

[roguejesse]

What year was your tour? I found the following:

The True Story of the Beretta M9 Pistol

The M9 pistol program ran into trouble when in September of 1987 the slide of a civilian model Beretta 92SB pistol fractured at the junction where the locking block mates into the slide. The broken half of the slide flew back at the shooter (A member of the Navy Special Warfare Group) injuring him. (NSIAD-88-213) In January and February of 1988 respectively, 2 more military model M9 handguns exhibited the same problem, injuring 2 more shooters from the Navy Special Warfare Group.

All three shooters suffered facial lacerations. One suffered a broken tooth and the other two required stitches. (NSIAD-88-213)

The Army was doing unrelated barrel testing on current production civilian model 92SB pistols and military model M9 pistols and ran into the same slide separation issue. They fired 3 M9 pistols 10,000 times and inspected the weapons with the MPI process for evidence of slide cracks. They discovered that one of the weapons had a cracked slide. The Army then decided to fire all of the weapons until the slides failed. Failure occurred at round number 23,310 on one weapon, 30,083 on another, and 30,545 on the last weapon. (NSIAD-88-213)

Examination of the NSWG slides and the Army slides showed a low metal toughness as the cause of the problems with slide separation. The Army then began to investigate the production process of the slides. (NSIAD-88-213) At the time the frames of the M9 pistols were produced in the US, while the slides were produced in Italy. There are reportedly documents from the Picatinny Arsenal that report a metallurgical study blaming the use of Tellurium in the manufacturing process for the low metal toughness of the Italian slides, but I have been unable to independently verify this information.

After April of 1988, however, all slides for the M9/92 pistols were produced in the US. (NSIAD-88-213) As a part of the contract requirements, the Beretta Corporation had to build a plant inside the United States to produce the M9. It naturally took some time for the US plant (located in Accokeek MD.) to get into full production swing, so the Italian plant made the slides for a time.

Several GAO reports and testimony from GAO staff before Congressional Sub-Committees (NSIAD-88-213, NSIAD-88-46, NSIAD-89-59 are a few…) report the total number of slide failures at 14. Three occurred in the field with the NSWG and the other 11 occurred in the test lab. Only 3 injuries resulted from the slide separation problem. The Beretta Corporation changed the design of the M9 pistol so that even if a slide fractured, the broken half could not come back and hit the shooter causing injury.

Conclusions

The Beretta M9/92 pistol has been in service with our military for almost 20 years now. After the production problems documented previously were addressed, the pistol proved to be mechanically sound and reliable, enduring hundreds of thousands of rounds with little trouble provided proper maintenance was supplied. A redesign in the locking block of the M9 pistol made changes to that important piece less frequent, causing the pistol to require even less time at the armorer’s bench.

By wearing out I mean that the M9 Berettas were having some minor and some major mechanical problems (unpredictable) that needed parts replacement long before parts replacement was anticipated. I was not an armorer so I don't know the exact parts that had to be replaced but there were mass shipments of the pistols back to Beretta and finally as I recall a lighter load was standardized for new 9mm ammo since the Army had already bought many Berettas and would have egg on the face if they went back to the 1911 .45. Damage included retention pin damage, chamber fracturing over time and some spring and slide problems. I don't recall any catastrophic failures like the gun blowing up in someone's hand or anything.

 

[disneyr]

I was active duty from 89 until 05. The problems my unit encountered were mainly in Panama in the early 90's.