Be careful folks. Sad website......
- Thread starter frijoli
- Start date
rehalfacre
New member
I'm sorry but I don't believe in accidental guns going off. It's negligent plain and simple. A gun is an object that takes the operator to make it go bang!!
It's the same with cars, it takes a driver to create an accident usually. Sometimes a malfunction of the car. But they are still accidents. To deny there are firearms accidents is a semantic exercise that serves no purpose other than to divert resources from teaching fundamental safety.
Too much carelessness. Maybe a firearms safety course and certification should required before anyone can be allowed to purchase a firearm.
People need to remember to make sure the gun is unloaded before showing it to a friend and before it is stored. I also agree that a gun safety course should be offered in our schools along with health and P.E..
This brain dead foolishness needs to stop, it makes the rest of us who are careful look bad and adds fuel to the arguments of the liberal gun grabbers.
Our state Government spends a fair amount of money to remind people that seatbelts save lives, maybe some of that money should be spent to remind people
to safety (unload) and properly store our firearms.
People need to remember to make sure the gun is unloaded before showing it to a friend and before it is stored. I also agree that a gun safety course should be offered in our schools along with health and P.E..
This brain dead foolishness needs to stop, it makes the rest of us who are careful look bad and adds fuel to the arguments of the liberal gun grabbers.
Our state Government spends a fair amount of money to remind people that seatbelts save lives, maybe some of that money should be spent to remind people
to safety (unload) and properly store our firearms.
I read the first six or so and they all could have been avoided if the guns had been properly cleared before handling. I've oohed and awed over other's carry pistols, and they mine, but they clear the gun first, hand it to me, then I clear it again to be sure. Same thing when they looked at mine. As they said on King of the Hill: "I didn't know it was loaded" is not an acceptable excuse.
I disagree that "negligent" versus "accidental" is merely semantics. Words have power. In many contexts, "accident" removes or reduces responsibility. Notice the language in one of the reports: "Degroot said the gun accidentally went off and a bullet struck him in the leg, police said." Degroot didn't unintentionally pull the trigger and shoot himself because he wasn't paying attention or practicing proper safety procedures, the gun accidentally fired itself into his leg. That sentence makes the gun the actor and responsible party, when it should obviously be Degroot. Using the word negligent puts the responsibility back in the hands of the person handling the gun, and says that this was a preventable occurance (which most are), not just an accident that happens for no reason sometimes. We're talking about unintentionally firing a gun into yourself or another, not dropping a dish while washing.
I disagree that "negligent" versus "accidental" is merely semantics. Words have power. In many contexts, "accident" removes or reduces responsibility. Notice the language in one of the reports: "Degroot said the gun accidentally went off and a bullet struck him in the leg, police said." Degroot didn't unintentionally pull the trigger and shoot himself because he wasn't paying attention or practicing proper safety procedures, the gun accidentally fired itself into his leg. That sentence makes the gun the actor and responsible party, when it should obviously be Degroot. Using the word negligent puts the responsibility back in the hands of the person handling the gun, and says that this was a preventable occurance (which most are), not just an accident that happens for no reason sometimes. We're talking about unintentionally firing a gun into yourself or another, not dropping a dish while washing.
jcreek
New member
True, but just because they're accidents doesn't mean nobody's at fault. I don't think Ryan Dunn meant to drive into a tree and burn to death in his car but he was also drunk and driving 100mph. I agree that all negligent discharges are in fact "accidents" but I believe people use the term "accidental discharge" to try and skirt taking responsibility for their recklessness. If a gun goes off 99.9% a person caused it. Even if the sear somehow broke, modern firearms have redundancies built in like half-cock notches and firing pin blockers that require human intervention to overcome.
I remember the story of the 85 year old lady that was admitted to the emergency room with a gunshot to her left knee cap. The doctors asked what happened and she went into this tearful story of how her husband of 65 years had just died and she didn't want to go on living. Well she thought about suicide. Poison she was afraid would be too painful. Natural gas could cause an explosion and hurt neighbors. A knife would be too difficult so she thought about using her pistol. She couldn't shoot herself in the head because it would be too upsetting for the children that may find her so she thought she could shoot herself in the heart...but where is the heart. After looking through books she finally called her doctor demanding to know where her heart was. He told her...under your left breast!
apvbguy
New member
the real point is if you follow the cardinal rules of handling a firearm you should never have an accident.
if I touch a weapon the very first thing that I do is make sure it is clear, I don't care if it is my gun and I just set it down for a moment, if it is out of my hands for a second the moment I pick it up I make sure it is safe.
Warrior1256
New member
Yeah, like these people who shoot someone and then say "The gun just went off". Don't you just hate it when these damned guns just go off all by themselves and kill and injure people?
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Nothing like thinning the gene pool..
Sent from behind enemy lines.
Sent from behind enemy lines.
I agree that firearms safety courses should be taught in our schools. But I don't agree with any "infringement" to the Second Amendment. And that is what you're calling for in the bold part of your post.
sdprof
Active member
That website it kind of misleading. The first several items are all listed with May 23 dates,yet the actual events were spread over many different dates, as far back as April.
I suspect the dates shown on the page are when the they were posted to the site. Rather disingenuous, don't you think?
"Negligent" vs "Accidental" - yeah, it's all a word game. When I had the additional duty of unit safety officer in the Air Force, I investigated and reported on "Mishaps". Which would be attributed to negligence, faulty procedure, faulty training, equipment failure...but the word "accident" was not in the lexicon.
(For the nitpickers, yes, the AF does convene "Accident Investigation Boards", but they investigate mishaps.)
I suspect the dates shown on the page are when the they were posted to the site. Rather disingenuous, don't you think?
"Negligent" vs "Accidental" - yeah, it's all a word game. When I had the additional duty of unit safety officer in the Air Force, I investigated and reported on "Mishaps". Which would be attributed to negligence, faulty procedure, faulty training, equipment failure...but the word "accident" was not in the lexicon.
(For the nitpickers, yes, the AF does convene "Accident Investigation Boards", but they investigate mishaps.)
Right there with you!
The word 'Accident' is way over used. If I backed into your car in a parking lot, that's not an 'accident'. I may have done it unintentionally, but that makes it an act of negligence. In that case, I wrecked your car by being stupid. An 'accident' is a tree limb falling on your car or a tire in useable condition blowing out while you are going down the road. In other words, things beyond human control.
The way I see it, a gun firing when it wasn't suppose to is the same way. If it breaks in some way and fires, it's an accidental discharge- the first time it happens. I wouldn't load a gun that just fired in that manner any more than I'd drive a vehicle that just had the brake pedal go to the floor and wouldn't stop. The second time it occurs, it's negligence. Any time some human does something they shouldn't have- or they should have know better than doing- then it's a 'negligent discharge'.
The tried and true, 'I didn't know it was loaded,' excuse is something that just bugs the crap out of me for so many reasons.
I was taught that when you pick up a gun- ANY gun- you clear it and verify it's unloaded. If you hand me a gun, I clear it. (Of course, if I actually take it from you, you will have already cleared it and it's in a cleared and action open condition before it ever touches my hand because otherwise, I ain't taking it.) If I pull a gun out of a case or the safe, or anywhere else, I clear it. It doesn't matter that I'm the only one with the combination to the safe or if I just put it in the case 5 minutes ago and it hasn't been out of my sight the whole time, I check the chamber and clear the action. When in doubt, I check the magazine (if it has one) and the chamber(s). If it leaves my hand, it gets cleared when I pick it back up. If that means I check it 3 times in 5 minutes, then that's what I do.
Second, you don't point a gun at ANYTHING that you don't want to shoot. Period. Without exception. That means, not at the dog, TV, your car, etc ... If you wouldn't want a bullet hole in it, then don't point the gun at it. It's just that simple.
And what's with keeping live ammo around when cleaning a gun? I was always taught to keep it away from the cleaning solvents and such because it could potentially penetrate the round via the primer pocket and contaminate the ammunition causing a misfire. (Depending on what you use and how much you use of it, it is a possibility.) Besides, as far as I'm concerned it being around just adds to the clutter and I've never been one to borrow trouble because it's also just one more thing that could fall, get scattered or generally get screwed up or in the way. You strip it, clean it, lube it and test the action a couple times to make sure you didn't screw up putting it back together. After that, you wipe off any excess lube that may have seeped out while testing the action and THEN you start thinking about reloading it.
Exactly my point. Most of these are at least partially due to careless gun owners. But others are kids who don't know what to do if they see a gun. NRA's Eddie Eagle program has some good material, but the basics are simple to teach to any age:
STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
That much should be taught in schools.
As for the gun owners themselves, all need to think safety a bit more. Even those of us who think we are always safe. Occasionally we need to stop and consciously think about everything we do with our weapons: storage, handling, showing off our new tool to someone who hasn't touched a gun before and think about whether there is room for improvement.
Deserteagle
New member
As long as their are people on this Earth, there will be stupid ones. Stupid people kill themselves and others with guns through negligence. No way around it unless there are no people.
