BATF seizes 30 toy guns!

[Red Hat]

This is the most ridiculous story I've read in a while. The BATF claims that these airsoft guns with minimal work could be converted to a machine gun! What a crock of BS!

ATF seizes 30 toy guns, infuriating local business owner - KOINLocal6.com

ATF seizes 30 toy guns, infuriating local business owner

CORNELIUS, Ore. - A local business owner is flabbergasted after a shipment of 30 toy guns for his store was confiscated by ATF agents in Tacoma.

Brad Martin and his son, Ben, sell the Airsoft BB guns from their store in Cornelius where they’ve been in business for seven years.

The Martins said they buy their stock from Taiwan because the merchandise is less expensive. But the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives seized a shipment of 30 in October. That shipment is worth around $12,000 and the ATF is promising to destroy the entire shipment.

Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw said the toys can be easily retro-fitted into dangerous weapons.

"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.

Brad Martin is furious about the loss of money, for sure, but also in what he now thinks as a loss of his time and the use of government agents to seize toy guns.

"All this manpower, all this time, all this taxpayer money, [it is] wasting my time and my profitability,” Martin said. “[Just] to seize 30 toy guns!"

Ben Martin disagrees that the toy guns could ever be considered dangerous.

"To say these are readily convertible to machine guns is absolutely preposterous,” he said. “The round wouldn't go into the firing chamber and even if the firing pin did strike the primer the gun would basically blow up in your face.”

ATF said it also seized the toys because they are missing the blaze orange tips required on all imported toy guns.

The Martins said they've received shipments before from Taiwan that were missing the orange tips and were simply asked by customs agents to drive up to Tacoma and paint the tips orange themselves. They are wondering why it is an issue now.

 

[JJFlash]

I propose that we start a fund-raising campaign to buy boatloads of these toy weapons. We'll dump hundreds of thousands of these toy guns on the streets. That way, we can have BATFE chasing these toys all over hell and back with the result that they'll leave the real guns and the rest of us alone, as they'll be too occupied trying to prevent BGs from turning these toys into weapons of mass destruction. :to_pick_ones_nose:

 

[Glock Fan]

I propose that we start a fund-raising campaign to buy boatloads of these toy weapons. We'll dump hundreds of thousands of these toy guns on the streets. That way, we can have BATFE chasing these toys all over hell and back with the result that they'll leave the real guns and the rest of us alone, as they'll be too occupied trying to prevent BGs from turning these toys into weapons of mass destruction. :to_pick_ones_nose:

Great idea in theory, but some of the "toy guns" are more expensive than the "real" ones.



gf

 

[JJFlash]

Great idea in theory, but some of the "toy guns" are more expensive than the "real" ones. gf

Well, that figures...

 

[Ropadope]

I'm at a loss for words.

The BATFE never ceases to amaze me with their stupidity.

Even if you can convert them, they are not manufactured to fire full auto live rounds of anything, caliber wise.

They would blow up in the hands of the user if they ever did try such non-sense. Yeah, that plastic reciever is going to hold up the gas pressure of some live ammo........................Gimme a break ATF. "Jacks booted thugs"

And we thought our guns where safe. :angry:

 

[ricbak]

Maybe they will lose them, too. :to_pick_ones_nose:

 

[KimberPB]

I use to go play airsoft all the time with one of my roommates. Some of the nicer more expensive airsoft guns, such as classic army, were all metal. Even though it had metal receivers and parts they were made to hold up to an electric motor pushing plastic BB's under 400FPS. Lets just say it would be easier to convert an AR15 to full auto then these.

As far as the orange tip, everyone I ever played with had camoed up their guns and painted over the orange tip.

My last question is since technically almost any real gun "COULD" be converted to full auto does that mean they are going to take them all from us???

 

[JJFlash]

Maybe they will lose them, too. :to_pick_ones_nose:

Hey, maybe that's what they're carrying, now, since they lost the real ones. Fools. :wacko:

 

[HK4U]

Randy Weavers wife was shot by the feds because they thought the baby she was holding in her arms was a gun. Perhaps they don't know what real guns look like.

 

[Anthony_I_Am]

"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said

So stupid. The machine work and time involved to make one of these, even the metal ones, into a working gun would be several times the cost of just buying a gun. No one in his right mind would invest several thousand dollars to have a piss-poor, unreliable homemade gun.
BATF with too much time and to much resources to squander.


""With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said"
Sounds like a line to get all the sheeple to rally behind you and support you. If you can convince them that anyone can walk into the store and buy a toy gun and modify it in a few minutes and have a fully automatic uzi, the gun- grabbing sheeple will support you all the way.

 

[g30sheepdog]

Randy Weavers wife was shot by the feds because they thought the baby she was holding in her arms was a gun. Perhaps they don't know what real guns look like.

+1. Agreed.

I just saw this story on the news tonight when I got home frome the gym. What a joke. :angry:

 

[MightyPirate]

Well to be truthful they were shooting at Randy who was running to the door. Sad, but often the truth is a bit more complicated than what we'd like to believe. Ruby Ridge was an overall awful mess. Poorly trained agents, needless deaths and nothing to show for it. But to be fair, everything that happened ultimately falls on Randy's shoulders. He was an AB member who sold illegal firearms and refused to go to court. Instead of spending five years in jail he holed up in a cabin, and got his wife and son killed.

Did the agents act with gross negligence. Of course, and they should have gone to jail for shooting the wife and Randy in the back. However Randy should have surrendered, or if he wanted to die in a firefight send his family away. As a husband and father your duty is to protect your family first and yourself second.

 

[Glock Fan]

Well to be truthful they were shooting at Randy who was running to the door. Sad, but often the truth is a bit more complicated than what we'd like to believe. Ruby Ridge was an overall awful mess. Poorly trained agents, needless deaths and nothing to show for it. But to be fair, everything that happened ultimately falls on Randy's shoulders. He was an AB member who sold illegal firearms and refused to go to court. Instead of spending five years in jail he holed up in a cabin, and got his wife and son killed.

Did the agents act with gross negligence. Of course, and they should have gone to jail for shooting the wife and Randy in the back. However Randy should have surrendered, or if he wanted to die in a firefight send his family away. As a husband and father your duty is to protect your family first and yourself second.

The government knew that there were innocents on site. There was no reason to storm the cabin. They had the manpower and resources to wait it out. They chose not to. Randy Weaver is partly responsible for the death of his wife and son, however I feel the government has the greater responsibility. They fired the fatal shots, they were negligent in their actions.

I'm not condoning the actions of a criminal, simply stating that this is a classic case of government gone mad. Ultimately the government needs to be held accountable to the same if not higher standards than your average citizen.



gf

 

[MightyPirate]

Well clearly they went mad, but it originally started when two armed men shot one of their agents. One can debate who fired the first shot, no one can say for any certainty who did except those that survived who were there. Considering both have conflicting reports it's hard to say with any accuracy. If you set fire to a lion's tail and the lion mauls you who do you blame? Though we are in agreement on one thing, the agents who fired those shots were criminally negligent.

Back on topic. When I was little I turned a nerf gun into a pretty deadly dart gun. Perhaps if one were to put sharp airsoft pellets in those guns you could put someone's eye out?

 

[BigSlick]

One could make a shot gun out of a piece of pipe. So I guess the BATF will start removing plumbing items from hardware stores.:sarcastic:

 

[HK4U]

Well clearly they went mad, but it originally started when two armed men shot one of their agents. One can debate who fired the first shot, no one can say for any certainty who did except those that survived who were there. Considering both have conflicting reports it's hard to say with any accuracy. If you set fire to a lion's tail and the lion mauls you who do you blame? Though we are in agreement on one thing, the agents who fired those shots were criminally negligent.

Back on topic. When I was little I turned a nerf gun into a pretty deadly dart gun. Perhaps if one were to put sharp airsoft pellets in those guns you could put someone's eye out?

I have heard that when the shooter was on the stand and asked if he had any remorse for killing her that he stated his only remorse was that he did not kill them all. That statement itself in my opinion speaks volumes.

 

[billwot]

One could make a shot gun out of a piece of pipe. So I guess the BATF will start removing plumbing items from hardware stores.:sarcastic:

I guess its really amazing the BATFE has not outlawed Ruger 1022s. They truly are simple to convert to full auto, and detailed instructions are widely available.

bill

 

[MightyPirate]

I have heard that when the shooter was on the stand and asked if he had any remorse for killing her that he stated his only remorse was that he did not kill them all. That statement itself in my opinion speaks volumes.

While I have not heard that, and while I have no respect for the man he's been vilified beyond logic, he is an awful human being but not to the extent some people want to believe. I remember back during the DC sniper shootings they were a lot of people that thought Lon was behind the whole thing. But then again, I've also heard theories that JFK was an alien so I'm very rarely shocked by conspiracy theories.

I would think, if he had said something that awful it would have been reported about it. Considering the high profile of the case he would have been crucified for saying such comments. And while he may have felt them, I have no doubt he was extensively coached on what to say during the trial. And it apparently worked considering the snake never spent a day in jail. For Ruby Ridge or Waco (yeah he was there too). I fail to see how manslaughter charges were the only charges ever filed against them, and even something as light as that couldn't stick.

And I can understand why people want to believe some people are just completely evil, it makes things easier to accept. It's easier to swallow that a man was evil, than an agency made numerous mistakes and was willingly negligent. The world is much nicer when viewed in black and white, but when you really look at things there are numerous shades of grey.

 

[HK4U]

While I have not heard that, and while I have no respect for the man he's been vilified beyond logic, he is an awful human being but not to the extent some people want to believe. I remember back during the DC sniper shootings they were a lot of people that thought Lon was behind the whole thing. But then again, I've also heard theories that JFK was an alien so I'm very rarely shocked by conspiracy theories.

I would think, if he had said something that awful it would have been reported about it. Considering the high profile of the case he would have been crucified for saying such comments. And while he may have felt them, I have no doubt he was extensively coached on what to say during the trial. And it apparently worked considering the snake never spent a day in jail. For Ruby Ridge or Waco (yeah he was there too). I fail to see how manslaughter charges were the only charges ever filed against them, and even something as light as that couldn't stick.

And I can understand why people want to believe some people are just completely evil, it makes things easier to accept. It's easier to swallow that a man was evil, than an agency made numerous mistakes and was willingly negligent. The world is much nicer when viewed in black and white, but when you really look at things there are numerous shades of grey.

I believe not only BO Gritz made mention of his statement but that Randy Weavers attorney in his book about the case also mentioned it. As far as nothing being done about it there have been a lot of things that the government has done over the years and glossed over.

 

[JJFlash]

As far as nothing being done about it there have been a lot of things that the government has done over the years and glossed over.

Don't see how anyone could disagree with that. Although, I'll draw issue with the phrase "glossed over", solely as a matter of semantics, because it sounds like hiding a little mistake that someone made. I would have said "lied about" or "buried", for starters. but, that's just me...