Bad LEO situation in TN

[proscene]

Yesterday an unfortunate scenario played our near Gallatin, TN:
About 2:30am a police car was nearly struck head on by another vehicle. The police officer gave chase and was aided by another patrol car in the pursuit. The chase was at very high speeds until the speeder lost control of his car and went off in a ditch/ravine. The first officer on the scene rushed to the victims aid and as he slipped and fell in the ditch his fire arm discharged. The second office a few seconds behind him heard the shot, saw the officer fall and fired several times on the speeder and killed him . . . he was un armed.
Both officers are on administrative leave pending the investigation but I have to feel badly for them anyway while trying to do their duty. Such a misfortunate situation the victim placed them both in . . . .

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Here's a good one for you "one in the pipe guys..."

Now try to tell me the officer responsible for the NDA did not have the necessary training.

 

[CapGun]

That is a situation that went from bad to worse. Amazing how circumstances of just trying to do your job can go so wrong. Hope it all works out.
Not being cold but maybe something to learn. What type of gun was the Officer carrying and was it still in his holster or in his hand? I think something can be learned if we ever find out more.

 

[NewColonial]

"fell in the ditch his fire arm discharged"

Not quite. "The officer failed to obey basic firearm safety and had his finger on the trigger when he was unprepared to shoot." The "unfortunate situation" was the result of 2 poorly trained LEOs.

 

[Glockster20]

Agreed!

"fell in the ditch his fire arm discharged"

Not quite. "The officer failed to obey basic firearm safety and had his finger on the trigger when he was unprepared to shoot." The "unfortunate situation" was the result of 2 poorly trained LEOs.

I'm thinking the officer already had his weapon drawn when he lost his footing. This was a high speed chase, a fleeing suspect! Even if the pursuit terminates suddenly, i.e. vehicle crash, etc, officers will approach weapons drawn. It is unfortunate, but the moral of this tragedy is "DON"T RUN FROM THE POLICE"!! If the suspect would have pulled over when the officers lit him up, he would still be alive.

 

[NMHunter]

""The officer failed to obey basic firearm safety and had his finger on the trigger when he was unprepared to shoot." The "unfortunate situation" was the result of 2 poorly trained LEOs."

Yours is the most reasonable conclusion.

Cooper's basic rules: Until you have identified your target and determined a safe background,

1. Keep your finger off the trigger.
2. Keep your finger off the d**m trigger.
3. Keep your d**m finger off the trigger.
4. Keep your d**m finger off the d**m trigger.
5. Finger! Trigger! NO!!

Follow these five rules and you will not make a noise or put a hole in anything you don't want to.

 

[proscene]

Official media story LEO shooting

It's an intersting perception from fsthers point of view:

Link Removed

 

[NewColonial]

Sounds like second broke the rule about knowing what you are shooting at. It's scary to think he'd start shooting just because he hears a gun shot.

I have nothing against LEOs, but there seems to be a serious training issue in that local department.

 

[mojo]

I have the utmost respect for our law enforcement; until they give me a reason they dont deserve it. the second officer was way out of line in his "reaction/over-reaction" to a situation that he basically had no intel on!! only that he heard a shot. could have been the car backfiring (ok not likely but) anyway a horrible situation for all involved. I cant imagine!!

 

[Scarecrow]

""The officer failed to obey basic firearm safety and had his finger on the trigger when he was unprepared to shoot." The "unfortunate situation" was the result of 2 poorly trained LEOs."

Yours is the most reasonable conclusion.

Cooper's basic rules: Until you have identified your target and determined a safe background,

1. Keep your finger off the trigger.
2. Keep your finger off the d**m trigger.
3. Keep your d**m finger off the trigger.
4. Keep your d**m finger off the d**m trigger.
5. Finger! Trigger! NO!!

Follow these five rules and you will not make a noise or put a hole in anything you don't want to.

so then I have a question... as far as your finger is concerned... and the trigger...ummmm...

seriously though.. this is very unfortunate. obviously some training was either missed or not taken too seriously.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

"fell in the ditch his fire arm discharged"

Not quite. "The officer failed to obey basic firearm safety and had his finger on the trigger when he was unprepared to shoot." The "unfortunate situation" was the result of 2 poorly trained LEOs.

Yeah, funny how the 1st account differed from the news story, omitting certain details.

Stupid cops.

 

[Saber]

As a former LEO I can actually see how this could happen. Imagine its dark, you’re on foot chasing a guy whom just evaded you in the commission of a 'felony flight', and your partner is ahead of you and then you hear a gunshot. Now the adrenalin is flowing like crazy and your brain and reactions are on autopilot. All that stuff you learned in concert with the rules of ‘mother may I’ and ‘Simon says’ goes out the window. I’m not justifying it, I’m just saying…

 

[tcox4freedom]

Yeah;
I can see how it could happen. But, I think the officer who had the ND "probably" should not have had his firearm out.

Back in they day (in W.TN), we could NOT draw our weapon unless we knew the BG had a weapon. ( A footchase like this would "NOT" meet that criteria.)

 

[BigSlick]

Here is a follow up to this story.
I think before this is all said and done the officer will be charged with 2 degree manslaughter.


Officers In Accidental Shooting Threatened
Councilman Asks For Safety Commissioner, Officers To Resign
Reported By Deanna Lambert

POSTED: 5:21 pm CDT April 30, 2010
UPDATED: 7:37 pm CDT April 30, 2010
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LEBANON, Tenn. -- Channel 4 has learned threats have been made against officers involved in an accidental fatal shooting Wednesday morning.

Related: Images | Video: Threats Made Against Officers In Mistaken Shooting

Two cameras at two different angles inside the Lebanon police officers' patrol cars caught the intense moments. From what Channel 4 was told Friday, police knew pretty quickly they had made a mistake.

One officer slipped and fired his gun, and the other officer shot and killed Gregory Thompson, who was unarmed. Thompson had led police on a car chase.

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation won't release that surveillance video, but Public Safety Commissioner Billy Weeks described what happens moments after the officers realized what they'd done.

"There was some conversation afterwards, just total shock on the officers' part," said Weeks.

Threats have even been made against Weeks and the two officers.

"It's over some information we received from Metro Police Department and then, I think, the TBI is also involved. They are just trying to talk to some people about some threats that were made," said Weeks.

According to the Lebanon Democrat, Councilman Kevin Huddleston is calling for Weeks and the police chief to resign.

"I'm not going to do that," said Weeks. "I don't think I have done anything, nor the police chief. You know, I've never been told I was doing anything wrong."

But Huddleston disagreed, saying this is the second time this has happened on Weeks' watch. A distant cousin of Thompson was also accidentally shot by police 10 years ago when officers raided the wrong house. Back then, the man's nephew was outraged.

"That just tells me that the Lebanon Police Department can kill anybody they want to and get away with it," said Edward Bell.

The same family now feels the same pain all over.

"Why hasn't anybody come to knock on my door to say, 'Hey, we killed your son'?" said Kay Thompson, the victim's mother. "The part that really hurts is because I had to sit in front of the TV and just hope and pray that it wasn't little Greg."

Thompson will be laid to rest Monday.

Tuesday is the next City Council meeting, where Huddleston plans to ask the mayor to remove the police chief and the public safety commissioner from office.

Officer Mitch McDannald, who fired at and killed Thompson, used to be married to Weeks' daughter.

 

[theicemanmpls]

Why is it, if you teach someone to use a skill saw, they have no problem keeping their finger off the trigger untill it's time to go?

I have seen so many shooters fail to remove their finger from the trigger guard after squeezing a shot sequence.

It is a difficult habit to break.

Regarding this sad occurance. We have a family greiving a loss. At least one officer will be fired. A law suit will be filed and won by the dead man's family.

These kind of chases get the cops all fired up. Then on top of it all, they hear gunfire. Accidents like this one are waiting to happen. What a shame.

 

[marionandjohn]

I agree there were many mistakes made in this situation. But I have to ask why was he running from the police? It seems the fact that it was a clear game of cat and mouse where the cat acctually caught the mouse and killed it before playing with it seems to go out the window. I feel bad for the family and even the victim. This is one more reason I feel everyone needs more training LE's or not can you really have enough training?

I am in NO WAY FORM OR FASION justifying either officers actions but put your self in either shoes. What would you have done different? Bad guy almost creams your car, you give chase, he crashes in a ditch (0230) Its dark and just to make it a little harder its in a ditch. Now as YOUR job you must approach said vehicle in the dark with a KNOWN bad guy in it. He gave chase after almost injuring you once already. You dont know if he is armed or not but your car and your partners cars and possibly street lights are behind you giving the BG a view of you as you come down into the ditch. would you draw your weapon before entering the ditch? I would. even with finger off trigger you slip and fall. what keeps a stick or branch out of the trigger gaurd?

Ok so you partner goes into said ditch to check the "crash victim"/BG. Your job is to protect your partner and your self while apprehending the BG. You hear a gun shot, you partner falls at the same time how do you react? This is where I think training went bad. I would like to think I would not open fire on a car before calling out to my partner if he was ok. Also you did not hear follow up shots of any kind.

Just my opinion dont go to hard on me also pictures of the scene would help. I might be picturing it all wrong.

 

[dootman]

Maybe Michael Bloomberg and Richard Daley will jump on this one and say police outside of their command should not be armed.

 

[Itstjs]

Wow, I hope everything works out for the LEOs unfortunate situation they put themselves in, but the 2nd LEO had no idea what to expect, all he heard was a gunshot. I think the 2nd LEO reacted well, he heard a gunshot, seen an LEO fall and he open fire on the suspects vehicle. The victim made things worse for himself by running. When people tend to run from the police, they either have 1. guns, 2. drugs or 3 guns and drugs.
But I agree, they will learn from this mistake.

 

[marionandjohn]

Maybe Michael Bloomberg and Richard Daley will jump on this one and say police outside of their command should not be armed.

Or why not disarm ALL police and LE's alike that way the legally owned guns cant kill anyone. :sarcastic:

 

[wolfhunter]

<snipped>

I am in NO WAY FORM OR FASION justifying either officers actions but put your self in either shoes. What would you have done different? Bad guy almost creams your car, you give chase, he crashes in a ditch (0230) Its dark and just to make it a little harder its in a ditch. Now as YOUR job you must approach said vehicle in the dark with a KNOWN bad guy in it. He gave chase after almost injuring you once already. You dont know if he is armed or not but your car and your partners cars and possibly street lights are behind you giving the BG a view of you as you come down into the ditch. would you draw your weapon before entering the ditch? I would. even with finger off trigger you slip and fall. what keeps a stick or branch out of the trigger gaurd?
<snipped>

As presented in the two accounts we've been presented, the BG is only guilty of reckless (possibly drunk) driving, leaving the scene of an accident and resisting arrest by fleeing. None of these justify an aggressive gun drawn approach, just a raised caution, hand-on-gun approach. FIRST error in Training resulting in muddy, embarrassed LEO.

Then the partner arrives, hears gunshot, and sees partner go down, reacts, empties gun in BG. No assessment, just drive up and start shooting. A moment to pause and assess would not have caused further harm to the downed LEO, but might have revealed a drunk with no gun. SECOND error in Training resulting in dead citizen.