Aurora, CO Theater shooting. The helpless anti gun sheep.

45acpfan

New member
This is just a brief vent over conversations I've had with family and coworkers regarding the Aurora, CO theater shooting. The conversations inevitably steer towards what could have been done in the face of this tragedy.

I must first say that I was not there and I will admit that even armed resistance in that ambush would have been difficult. A darkened theater, late at night, relaxed and prepared to enjoy a new movie, and suddenly you are presented with a dark figure shooting at random. If I wasn't the one of the first to be hit, I hope and pray,that my preparations would allow me to react quickly and effectively enough to save my life, and the lives of the innocents around me. Draw the 45xdm, activate laser, verify and acquire target, aim, and fire until the target drops. I rarely carry a spare mag and my thinking is that if 14 rounds of 45 HP won't stop them, another 13 probably won't either. After this, I've started carrying the extra 13 rounds.

Back to topic....I've heard so many sheep around me and in the media say that there's nothing you could do in that scenario, even if armed. So if violent response is not acceptable in their mind, what is their plan or what would they do? They never have the answer. As Wade Garrett so wisely said, "When a man sticks a gun in your face, you have 2 options; You can stand there and die, or you can kill the motherf#@cker." I think everyone else in my sphere opts for the latter and it disgusts me.

"He had body armor. You couldn't even shoot him if you had a gun." I've seen conflicting reports on whether or not the shooter had body armor or just a tac vest. I have not personally tested body armor. I've worn a flak vest and Kpot in training, but never seen how effective armor is. Any experienced input would be appreciated. I wouldn't want to be behind a cinder block wall if there were 14 45acp shells flying at it in rapid succession. I'm confident most regular shooters could put 1 or 2 under stress in the kill zone if they got 14 tries.

Finally, one concealed carry gun in the crowd might not have stopped this tragedy, but what about 2, or 3, or 12? There will always be bad guys that use the element of surprise and lots of firepower to prey on the innocent, but if there are enough responsible, trained, and safe CCW carriers out there, the bad guys will not get the numbers they would otherwise. At some point the sheep must realize that LEO's do a great job, but their small numbers prevent their ability to be effective in most situations. LEO's were on the scene in 3 minutes. Pretty damn fast, but not nearly fast enough. It was all over by that point. So many people have the mindset that they will rely on the government for everything. Natural disasters, riots, jobs, the economy, etc. "It will be ok, the government is here to take care of me." We need to take care of each other and let the government worry about the judicial and corrections systems.

I hate to rant, but this pacifist trend really makes my blood boil.

Be prepared. A.ways B.e C.arrying. Who knows, the life you save, may be your own.

Go Sheepdogs.
 
I've never been shot while wearing body armor, but it seems some people are knocked down while others can shake it off...depending on mindset and type of armor worn (think the bank shoot out in L.A.) The thing that most people don't understand is that the record of police shootings clearly show that except for those with specialized training...SEALS or SWAT for example, generally lose at least half of their capability when the adrenaline. When I was a firearms instructor, I had a guy who routinely shot around 298 out of 300 at the range and wouldn't believe the stats. I took him to th range and started yelling at him and swearing like a sailor, which was out of character for me. When I felt he had some adrenaline pumping, I had him shoot the regular course. He shot a score around 110,which was not qualifying. I let him shoot a second round and he was only able to bring his score up to around 145. He had extensive training in weapons up thru 50 cal MG and was considered an expert LEO shooter. I'm not saying someone with a gun and training shouldn't jump in to try to stop a violent shooter, but the hero needs to understand that he may not be nearly as good as he thinks he is. I survived 28 year in law enforcement and after the first couple of yeas had no illusions about my firearms prowess. Although I drew my gun hundreds of times, I'm pleased that I was always able to resolve the situations without the need to shoot somebody.
 
I'm pretty new to all of this but it seems to me, from what I've heard/read that this guy wasn't any thing like well trained so any shot fired back that hit him might have made him hesitate long enough for other action to be taken. That action might have been more rounds hitting him, someone tackling him, hitting him in the back of the head, whatever. Unfortunately, 12 people are dead and we'll never know.
 
some thing should/could have helped,,the shooter walked up and down an side walkway,he had to have his back to some people sometime,,if somebody could have at least fired at him ,things might have turned-out different
 
Hindsight is always 20 20.

The first rule in any gunfight is dont show up outgunned.

Rifle beats pistol.

Pistol beats knife.

Knife beats empty hands.

Trained empty hands are better than untrained.

It is indeed true that there is little or nothing anyone in this Aurora incident could have done, short of bring their own uzi or other submachine gun with them, like the kids in the army in Israel do on the streets of Tel Aviv every day. These kids (late teens / early 20s) in Israel are not easy targets; they cannot afford to be.

Americans are generally speaking easy targets. Holmes proved that yet again.

Any highly motivated jihadist terrorist can easily do a lot of damage here in the USA because of our peacetime homerule footing during this war with jihadist islam begun on 9-11-2001.

Duck and cover still makes as much or more sense today as it ever did during JFK or LBJ days.

Granted Holmes was not a jihadist, he was instead a wacko.

But anyone who thinks they are going to get 70 virgins in Valhalla for blowing themselves up and killing Americans and Israelis is wacko too.
 
But the theater had a "No Guns Poicy" so the shooter violated that policy and that is the problem.
A.) Was the shooter aware of the policy.
B.) Was the policy posted and conspicuous.
C.) Could the shooter read and if he can't read did the sign have pictures?

IMO No gun Policies are there to protect the owners from law suits. Lets say there was a hold up and a ccw'er intervenes but an employee of the business happens to get shot in the fray. The Owners Lawyers can now absolve themselves.
We teach our employees not to resist and comply with the robber.
Don't even think about suing us, sue the gun toting redneck that started the whole thing. We had a "Posted Policy"!

I really have no idea what I would have done if armed in that situation.
I knew an old cop that upon returning home he uninterrupted a burglary in his residence.
He could have blown the guy away but didn't.
He said, My Kids were with me, I didn't want to shoot anyone in front of them and my first instinct was to protect them.
The guy got away.
I wouldn't have been at a silly Batman movie without my grand kids and I wouldn't take them anyway to see such crap.
 
I'm pretty new to all of this but it seems to me, from what I've heard/read that this guy wasn't any thing like well trained so any shot fired back that hit him might have made him hesitate long enough for other action to be taken. That action might have been more rounds hitting him, someone tackling him, hitting him in the back of the head, whatever. Unfortunately, 12 people are dead and we'll never know.

I've worked several years in law enforcement and I have two words: Cranial Vault. There is another post here about adrenaline kicking in and throwing off your aim but 14 rds of .40 coming at you and body armour or not you are going to be affected. And the harsh reality you realize the first time you put your Department issued vest on is exactly how little it covers. You have the center mass vitals but arms, side torso, throat, face, are all open for business. Shooting outside the center mass like a 125 or a 140 score would knockout arms, shoulders, hands... I tend to believe that would take a bit of the fight out of him. Would also save years of uncertainty for the families of the victims.
 
Just a note of information, in Wisconsin, this year. A man shot an Armed Robber in an Aldi Store, and stopped the Robbery. The Store had a NO WEAPONS SIGN posted outside of the store. The man, an Immigrant from the Middle East, stated that if he had known of the store policy, he would not have shopped there, because he said that he will not shop in a store that denys him his Constitutional Rights. No charges were filed against the man and his gun was returned to him. The point is that you have a Right to defend yourself, anywhere, anytime.
 

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