Atheists are at it again


tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Atheist Michael Newdow, who unsuccessfully lobbied to have the Supreme Court remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, is at it again. This is really starting to get ridiculous. It seems to me that by requesting that he not say "so help me God," they are infringing upon his freedom of speech. But the atheists don't care about that; all they care about is suppressing any overt references to Christianity.

Link Removed

WASHINGTON – President-elect Barack Obama wants to conclude his inaugural oath with the words "so help me God," but a group of atheists is asking a federal judge to stop him.

California atheist Michael Newdow sued Chief Justice John Roberts in federal court for an injunction barring the use of those words in the inaugural oath.

Newdow and other atheists and agnostics also want to stop the use of prayers during the inaugural celebration.

Newdow, who lost a Supreme Court battle to get the words "under God" taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance, has failed in similar challenges to the use of religious words and prayers at President George W. Bush's inaugurations.

Roberts' attorney Jeffrey P. Minear filed a document in Newdow's lawsuit saying that Obama wants the words "so help me God" included in his oath of office.

The Justice Department and attorneys general from all 50 states have filed motions at the federal court asking for the lawsuit to be thrown out.

The oath dictated by the Constitution is 35 words long and reads: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

The National Archives says that George Washington added the words "so help me God" when he took the oath at his 1789 inaugural, and most presidents have used it since. However, some have argued that the first eyewitness account of a president using those words came at President Chester Arthur's inauguration in 1881.

Named in Newdow's lawsuit are Roberts; Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.; and the two pastors invited to the event, the Rev. Rick Warren and the Rev. Joseph Lowery.

U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton will hear arguments on Thursday.
 

DocBoCook

Not Negotiable, A Right
Does anyone really care? You can argue till you are blue in the face either side. Even the US Military gives you the choice of swearing or affirming and you may leave God out of it. It's a personal choice, just like it is a personal choice to be atheistic. They, like us when it pertains to their personal beliefs, should mind their own business.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Does anyone really care? You can argue till you are blue in the face either side. Even the US Military gives you the choice of swearing or affirming and you may leave God out of it. It's a personal choice, just like it is a personal choice to be atheistic. They, like us when it pertains to their personal beliefs, should mind their own business.

I agree. What exactly it is they're trying to accomplish by telling Obama that he can't add to the oath whatever he wants to add is beyond me.
 

Glockster20

Clinging to God and guns
What a turd!!! I can't say that I wish something bad would happen to him but.... anybody remember Madelyn Murray O'haire???
 

Templar

I'm a square
Entertaining crap like this is killing this country. If someone is an Atheist and doesn't want to acknowledge God then fine, don't. But why should I not be allowed to acknowledge God? Why is this ass telling me what I can't do? It's the same as the anti-gun folks. If you don't like guns, fine, don't buy one. But don't tell me what to do. We need to go back to a time when we didn't try to please everyone and make everyone feel "normal." Why do we as a society even entertain such stupidity? <ok rant over>
 
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gpbarth

Guest
This is the problem that is not going away. This is political correctness at its finest. That we must not offend anyone over anything. That if someone doesn't believe in God, then God shall not be mentioned aloud outside of a church, lest we offend someone.

I went to a town hall meeting to support a church that was trying to build a school on its property, and there were a few people there who were vehemently against it. So much so that they were yelling and screaming throughout the entire hearing (and this was not the only item on the evening agenda). And one couple, who lived in the neighborhood behind the church, stated that they had actually fought the original construction of the church because one of their windows faced the direction of the church building, and they were going to be forced to look at the cross on the steeple every time they looked out that window. IOW, they didn't want anything in their periphery to look like religion because they hated it so much.

It is time, people, that we take this country back. That we start fighting for OUR rights. It is time to push back. No one is forcing atheists to pray, to listen to any oath, to recognize a God, or a religion. Likewise, they have no right to demand that faith be removed from their sight. We have freedom OF religion (or the lack thereof) and not freedom FROM religion.

And now that these guys are getting all the press, they are working on producing new "hate laws" which will make the utterance of Biblical passages illegal. If you preach the Bible against homosexuality, for instance, you will be accused of a hate crime. Want to see the Bible outlawed? It is being attempted as we speak. Funny how their form of hatred is okay, however.

This country was based on Christian principles, and that fact appears in so much of our history that it cannot be refuted. And so these people are trying to re-write or erase that history in order to make their minority wishes the law. And they are using the courts to do that. Call it what you will, but it is time to take this country back, and bury PC once and for all. We ARE the majority. Aren't we?
 

bplv

New member
Why is it so much to ask that agents of the government, in their official duty, not endorse religion? If it wasn't your religion he was endorsing, would you be defending him?
 

Glockster20

Clinging to God and guns
As gpbarth stated, The very foundation of this nation was founded on Christian principles.

"In God We Trust"
"God Bless America"
"So Help Me God"
"One Nation Under God"

Why do you think this nation has come so far in little more than 200 years? Because our forefathers acknowledged God and he bestowed his blessing on us. In the last 20 years the athiests and the so called "politically correct" crowd have systematically been removing God from our society. Now you have the "separation of church and state". Why do you think our country and our economy is tanking??? Because slowly but surely we are turning our backs on God. IMO.
 

bplv

New member
One nation under god was added to the pledge in 1954.
In God We Trust didn't become the motto of the country until 1956.

Jefferson and many of the founding fathers were more Deists or Unitarians than Christians.

I'm sure many people would rather the US be the Christian's equivalent of Iran, but it just seems wrong to me.
 

wuzfuz

New member
Atheists

I believe that if you affirm, which is one of the choices, then you don't have to add the 'so help me God.' I am one who does not swear. I affirm that whatever I say is the truth, and I do not have to appeal to a supernatural power as proof I am telling the truth. People do have other beliefs that are just as credible as an invisible supernatural being. I do not look down on Christians, as long as their beliefs are genuine. One thing I do dislike is those Christians who will scream and holler all day about their right to believe as they choose, something they wish to deny others. Too many s0-called Christians uphold your right to believe as they do.
 
What happened to "change"? Past Presidents have said "So help me God" as a demonstration of their faith. He should be honest and say "So help me Allah".



gf
 

HK4U

New member
All I can say is those that claim many of the founding fathers were deists have not study their early writings and history. I don't mean a public education in history either. Those types of statements come from an ignorance of the true facts. If someone wants to believe we came from primordial ooze that is their business. I will not however leave my faith by the way side for anyone. If they don't like it . TO BAD!
 

DocBoCook

Not Negotiable, A Right
As gpbarth stated, The very foundation of this nation was founded on Christian principles.

"In God We Trust"
"God Bless America"
"So Help Me God"
"One Nation Under God"

Why do you think this nation has come so far in little more than 200 years? Because our forefathers acknowledged God and he bestowed his blessing on us. In the last 20 years the athiests and the so called "politically correct" crowd have systematically been removing God from our society. Now you have the "separation of church and state". Why do you think our country and our economy is tanking??? Because slowly but surely we are turning our backs on God. IMO.

The economy tanking has nothing to do with any deity. It is a bible toting right wing administration that put our economy in the crapper in the first place, spouting god this and god that, and how god talks to him. But god apparently didn't tell him how to fix the country's economy, schools, or where the W.M.D.'s were sooooooo............. I don't think Yahweh cares about our economy or any of that crap. He would care about the individuals spiritual well being, not how his stock portfolio is doing.

God was LEFT OUT OF POLITICS FOR A REASON by the FOUNDING FATHERS, some of the most intelligent men to ever step foot on this continent. It was not a requirement. Swearing in on a bible isn't really a requirement. The "God" part is optional, most people don't actually know this and most of the god things as you stated, weren't added until people like McCarthy came around and realised the Commies said religion was a weakness, while we stated it was a strength. It was a measure due to religious fervor among the populous at the time.
God doesn't belong in politics. If he/she did, there wouldn't be so much money to be made
 

HK4U

New member
The economy tanking has nothing to do with any deity. It is a bible toting right wing administration that put our economy in the crapper in the first place, spouting god this and god that, and how god talks to him. But god apparently didn't tell him how to fix the country's economy, schools, or where the W.M.D.'s were sooooooo............. I don't think Yahweh cares about our economy or any of that crap. He would care about the individuals spiritual well being, not how his stock portfolio is doing.

God was LEFT OUT OF POLITICS FOR A REASON by the FOUNDING FATHERS, some of the most intelligent men to ever step foot on this continent. It was not a requirement. Swearing in on a bible isn't really a requirement. The "God" part is optional, most people don't actually know this and most of the god things as you stated, weren't added until people like McCarthy came around and realised the Commies said religion was a weakness, while we stated it was a strength. It was a measure due to religious fervor among the populous at the time.
God doesn't belong in politics. If he/she did, there wouldn't be so much money to be made


Say What?


“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religious, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” Patrick Henry 1776

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams 6th US President and son of John Adams

"The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.” The US Congress 1782

"I think the Christian religion is a Divine institution; and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principle and practice." James Iredell Supreme Court Justice

"My only hope of salvation is in the infinite, transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" Benjamin Rush

"Without a humble imitation of the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, we can never hope to be a happy nation." George Washington

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." John Jay the first Supreme Court Justice


"Let...statesmen and patriots unite their endeavors to renovate the age by...educating their little boys and girls...and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system." - Samuel Adams

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson

"The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: 'that God governs in the affairs of men.' And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" - Benjamin Franklin

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evil men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." - Noah Webster

"I do not believe that the Constitution was the offspring of inspiration, but I am perfectly satisfied that the Union of the States in its form and adoption is as much the work of a Devine Providence as any of the miracles recorded in the Old and New Testaments." - Benjamin Rush
 
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gpbarth

Guest
Christians (including our founding fathers) have NEVER stated nor demanded that everyone bow to and worship God and Jesus Christ. Their beliefs were never forced on anyone.

However, those who do not believe are trying to force THEIR (non) beliefs on everyone else. If you don't believe in God, no problem. Just don't try to tell the rest of us that no one can believe or express their beliefs publicly. You're right Doc - God isn't a REQUIREMENT anywhere, but it is there for those of us who believe. If you don't like God, you don't have to listen. You don't have to swear to God, you don't have to pray. You don't have to ever walk into a church. But telling everyone that, because YOU don't believe no one can believe, you're pushing your agenda on us.

Remember, it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And in case you don't think this nation is founded on Judeo-Christian principles, go take a close look at the Supreme Court building sometime. Then tell me how much the 10 Commandments offend you. Or how they shouldn't be displayed in public.

We're not telling anyone how to believe, but you are trying to tell us that because it offends YOU, it shouldn't be uttered in public. Well, I don't believe in atheism, I don't believe in Buddhism, I don't beleive in Islam. And since I am in the majority in this country, I don't believe that any of these other beliefs should be allowed in the U.S. How do you like them apples? Oh, you don't? Why doesn't it work my way, but your way is okay? For the record, although I do not believe in any of those other religions, I still believe that all of them have the right to co-exist with my Christianity. So who crawled up your ass and died?
 

DocBoCook

Not Negotiable, A Right
My point is playing devils advocate against both sides. Neither should be complaining, because both should know they have a choice. I am not an atheist, but I don't follow the Abrahamic religions either. My point is that no one is being forced to do either way. And both sides should keep their religion out of other peoples business. If they don't, we are no better than the Taliban or any other government that pushes religious rules on their people.
 

Oregon Vet

NRA Life Since 03/1985
Exactly so...

...And both sides should keep their religion out of other peoples business. If they don't, we are no better than the Taliban or any other government that pushes religious rules on their people.

Exactly so:

Watch it and SEE how we don't, ooops, DO push "our" christian beliefs on anyone.


The Iraq War lovers


Your last sentence says it EXACTLY, DocBoCook

Except we are worse than the Taliban. We are supposed to KNOW better.

People spout off: The USA believes in freedom of religion. Since when? Watch the movie and tell me that.

Regards,

Ken
 

DocBoCook

Not Negotiable, A Right
Remember, it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And in case you don't think this nation is founded on Judeo-Christian principles, go take a close look at the Supreme Court building sometime. Then tell me how much the 10 Commandments offend you. Or how they shouldn't be displayed in public.

So who crawled up your ass and died?

Your right, it is of, not from. That's one of the few things the FF got wrong. Judeo Christian values? Ask a priest of the Catholic church who molests little boys how those values work. The country was founded on GOOD MORAL VALUES that happened to be written a book thousands of years ago that are followed by good human beings that had never read that book, before it was written and after it. It was a religious time when they wrote/created our country. I don't fault them for that. They did a good job with what they had.

10 commandments. Don't offend me. They are an excellent moral code to follow, whether in the context of a book, or just being a decent human being. You can display them in public, I think there are alot of christians that have forgotten or never read those in the first place that need to see them and learn what they mean and how to live their lives like the christians they claim to be.

This is not a personal attack against you. This is for those who claim to be christian, or hide behind that label, and use it rip people off for money (why does Yahweh need money?), guide their lives toward hate (Jews vs. Islam, vice versa, Islam against anyone not Islam, Atheist vs. Deism), Or use their position of church power to influence or harm others.

What "crawled up my butt" is that NO ONE should push their P.O.V. on anyone. ever heard of agree to disagree? And that people hide behind Judeo Christian values and books, but at the same time don't live by them.
 
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gpbarth

Guest
I loved the part about "people getting killed" over converting to Christianity. OH, yes, a lot of Iraqis are dying over Christianity - their own families and "friends" are killing them because of the ISLAMIC belief that anyone who converts should die.

Christians have a belief that they (we) are to spread the faith throughout the world. There are missionaries in every country doing just that. This is common-place. The big difference is that Christians do not kill, threaten, beat or force anyone to convert to the Christian faith. You see, if you do not, of your own free will, accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, then no one can force you to.

You have a problem with missionaries. Too bad. You think that no one should be prosthelyzing. Too bad. If I tried to tell you aboiut Jesus, and you didn't listen, who cares? But I'm not going to threaten you or harm you if you don't.

No one is "pushing" their Christian beliefs on anyone. People are presented with the information about Christianity, and may or may not accept it. But it isn't Christians who are killing Muslims - it is Muslims who are killing Christians. Nice try, but you have your facts all screwed up. You don't like missionaries? Sorry about that, but Christians will always be trying to spread the faith throughout the world. And you can take it or leave it.
 

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