ATF’s latest gun grab

[longslide10]

Any trick in the book to get you disarmed. I've heard too many horror stories on this civil forfeiture law. That means government can grab firearms and other property from someone who has never been convicted or even charged with any crime. I feel if that were to happen to me and the opportunity arose then I would simply have to dispatch any agents with extreme prejudice. This govt is an out of control rogue entity not unlike a mafia looking for ways to continually rip off American citizens via taxation, property confiscation and threats to sovereignty. When are we going to return the favors?


GHEI: ATF's latest gun grab - Washington Times

 

[Purple]

This is an easy avoidance...don't abuse or be in possession of a controlled substance.

 

[jameshd]

This is an easy avoidance...don't abuse or be in possession of a controlled substance.

That won't work. You don't have to be anywhere near a controlled substance. The gummint just has to decide that you are and they can take anything and everything you own. You then have to spend zillions of dollars to get your property returned.

 

[S&W645]

There is a ton of misinformation being passed around in the comments section of that page. ags4ever is one spreading a lot of it.

 

[GB-Boater]

There is a ton of misinformation being passed around in the comments section of that page. ags4ever is one spreading a lot of it.

If they are spreading a ton of crap then why aren't they banned ?

 

[S&W645]

If the guy is spreading a ton of crap then why isn't he banned ?

Don't know. He was way wrong on the records being turned in.

ags4ever • 17 days ago • parent

NoelArmourson: Actually, according to the dealers I know, the dealers keep the copies and the bound book. ATF is not SUPPOSED to be allowed access to them unless they get a court order describing a particular firearm with serial number.

Guess he has/they have never heard of a compliance check. Also BATFE takes over custody of the 4473s and bound books when a business gets sold. New owners start new books by transferring the the guns on hand into a new book.
He is wrong on what all states ask for in the NICS checks.

ags4ever • 17 days ago • parent

WARIII: Wrong. The "instant check" identifies the purchaser, because that's the "reason" for the "instant check", to check to see if the person is not barred from buying a firearm under the unconstitutional Gun Control Act of 1968 as amended. Your driver's license number and state is recorded along with the fact you bought a gun on that date.

ags4ever • 14 days ago • parent

WARIII: Have you listened to the conversation between the dealer and the ATF. They take ALL the information that is on the front of the 4473--name address, city, county, state, height, weight, male/female, driver's license number, social security number (if given), what boxes are marked "yes" or "no", and whether one is a citizen or an immigrant, and then the number of firearms, and whether any are handguns. If a CHL is given, that number is recorded and relayed to ATF. and no delay is necessary. Normally, if you have a clean record, the delay isn't more than a few seconds anyway. But all that information is taken when the FFL dealer calls the ATF.

DL is not on first page even. DL is not given to the NICS check person. And you don't even have to use a DL for ID. Only requires a gov't ID with picture, address, and number. A passport or a State issued ID works just as well. Passport requires additional documents to provide address. You don't actually have to buy the gun on the date you do the check. No more 30 days later you have to or it requires another check. And I don't call the BATFE or the FBI to do the check. We call the Florida Dept of Law Enforcement. The check person doesn't ask about the yes and no boxes, the dealer denies it outright if 11a is NO and any from 11b to 11k are marked YES. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

ags4ever • 17 days ago • parent

John Doe: also asks for the name and address of the purchaser, citizenship status, license number and so on. The info that's on the front page of the Form 4473. All that information is recorded with the ATF approval number. Supposedly it is deleted after 24 hours (FOPA), but in reality?

Still wrong on the DL location. Wrong again in that Delayeds are not deleted in 24 hours. The delayed status keeps it open until a date given by the NICS check person and is called back to the dealer or the dealer calls to check. And Denieds are not deleted in that time period. Denieds can appeal the Denied and have a time period to do that in. They need the number to check the record. We have a two side BATFE card for delayeds and denieds to record the number on with appeal instructions on it for denieds.

More examples:

WARIII • 14 days ago • parent

ags4ever: DID YOU read my comment I WORKED in a gun shop for 2 years and called many instant checks in and there is a place on the for that the DEALER fills out and tells the FBI if the purchaser has bought a long gun or handgun!

John Doe • 19 days ago • parent

WARIII: No, just that it is a firearm, not what type.

John Doe is wrong as type is asked in the check. Handgun, long gun, other firearm. Or even more than one type. I've bought both hand and long guns on the same day and the dealer had to say both types. Just as WarIII said.

LtScrounge • 12 days ago • parent

ags4ever: The way to avoid the NICS check is to get a CCW. They aren't required for people with CCWs.

CCWs don't get you out of a NICS check in all states. In Florida, it requires a NICS check even with a CWorF license. Same applies in many other states too.

 

[longslide10]

This is an easy avoidance...don't abuse or be in possession of a controlled substance.

Not the point of the story. They can make up anything they want if you have something they want