ATF ruling on "shotguns"

[CharlieK]

I've read that the ATF has or is about to rule that a shotgun with a pistol-grip stock is no longer a shotgun and must have a special license to own. Is that true?

 

[S&WM&P40]

I've read that the ATF has or is about to rule that a shotgun with a pistol-grip stock is no longer a shotgun and must have a special license to own. Is that true?

Pistol Grips and Shotguns
Firearms with pistol grips attached:
The definition of a shotgun under the GCA, 18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5), is “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed
or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of
an explosives to fire through a smooth bore either a number
of ball shot or single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
Under the GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29)(A), handgun
means “a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.” Federal law
provides under 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), that if the firearm to be
transferred is “other than a rifle or shotgun,” the purchaser
must be 21 years of age or older.
Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within
the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though
they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example,
firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the
licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.”
These entries should indicate the firearm type as “pistol grip
firearm.”
Age Restriction & Interstate Transfer Reminders
Licensees are reminded that firearm frames, receivers, and
other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns
(rifles or shotguns) are considered “Other Firearms.” They
cannot be sold or delivered by a licensee to any person under
21 years of age. Additionally, 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3) states that
a licensee shall not sell or deliver any firearm other than a
shotgun or rifle to any person who does not reside in the
State in which the licensee’s place of business or activity is located;
this restriction includes handguns, pistol grip firearms
utilizing shotgun ammunition, and frames and receivers

Read this as well

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

Also read the thread already started on this topic.
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/gene...-pistol-grip-shotguns-destructive-device.html

 

[JSDinTexas]

Marxist obama has his boys putting out a study on shotguns. They are testing the waters to see if they can ban tactical shotguns, which will be segregated from so-called hunting shotguns by classifying various parts of the gun.
Mentioned are:
"(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand."

I said testing the waters - it is generally believed if he gets a 2nd term, he will move on this.
You can see the study here: Link Removed

My suggestion? Start buying Mossbergs, or at least a few Rem 870s

 

[CharlieK]

It reads as if the ruling does NOT apply to a shotgun with a buttstock AND and a pistol grip, since such a shotgun is designed to be fired from the shoulder while holding the pistol grip and forearm. Am I interpreting that correctly?

 

[JSDinTexas]

It reads as if the ruling does NOT apply to a shotgun with a buttstock AND and a pistol grip, since such a shotgun is designed to be fired from the shoulder while holding the pistol grip and forearm. Am I interpreting that correctly?

I could be wrong (I was once in 1960 :sarcastic but I believe the USC citation is aimed at pistols that shoot shotgun rounds because of the wording concerning age to possess or purchase.
And since I recently bought a shotgun with a collapsible stock and a pistol grip from a LE supply house for my personal home defense, I will guess we're ok.

 

[CharlieK]

That's correct. As long as the weapon has a shoulder stock, it can be defined as a shotgun.

Thank you, G50AE. I guess I can keep my Benelli M1 Super 90 with a buttstock that has a pistol grip. Thanks.

 

[localgirl]

OK, before anyone gets their undies too bunched, read the actual document.

If you are referring to the ATF study, it's talking about importing firearms, and it's trying to classify guns as sporting or assault.

This is a leftover from 1968, not something they're pulling out of the air right now. It went through several iterations, but the original intent was to keep cheap overseas weapons from being dumped in the US. The end result was the assault weapons ban in the 90s--since expired.

So first, they're talking about imports, and y'all are always hollering about buying American, so there's one option.

Second, this is an old study that has little credence today. Someone is going to have to pass legislation and earmark money before anything can actually happen, so you have plenty of time to stockpile if that is your desire.

Third, the entire study is merely suggestions to Congress, not actual law.

Fourth, this is strictly a document that discuses importation, not ownership. Own away, retrofit, and customize your weapons to your heart's content. Your Second Amendment rights will not be breached today.

 

[cawpin]

Someone is going to have to pass legislation and earmark money before anything can actually happen, so you have plenty of time to stockpile if that is your desire.

Third, the entire study is merely suggestions to Congress, not actual law.

Fourth, this is strictly a document that discuses importation, not ownership. Own away, retrofit, and customize your weapons to your heart's content. Your Second Amendment rights will not be breached today.

There are three things wrong with these statements.

First, the BATFE is trying to "reinterpret" the 1968 document AGAIN to expand its list of banned-for-import firearms. Second, if they do this, it does not necessarily require any law to be passed. That is their aim with this.

Third, the first step of anything is to take a piece nobody cares about.

This must not be allowed to happen. I'm all for buying American but that is a PERSONAL CHOICE, not something for the government to legislate.

 

[localgirl]

Well Ok, let's DO something about it then.

 

[sassedbygov]

This is a re-emergence of the ole "only guns that serve a sporting purpose" as in hunting will be allowed. They are testing Heller vs D.C. and McDonald vs Chicago to see how far and fast they can set precedent.

Remember, they ban rights in little increments. This is just one more increment in a long train of increments.

This proposal is meant to prohibit the importation of, and will eventually ban all those big ugly heavy mag fed Saiga 12's out there. And probably go after the Kel-Tec 12G eventually, which is wider than 3 1/2 inches with a pistol grip.

Just because they don't want your American made pump, doesn't mean they won't come for it eventually.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

PS. Our Gun Control Act of 1968 was derived directly from the Nazi "Law on Weapons 1938" by none other than Thomas Dodd from CT

Link Removed

 

[B2Tall]

I read the study a while back. The bottom line is that the ATF study is about imported shotguns. It doesn't concern domestics. They're thinking about doing to shotguns what they did to assault rifles back in '89, i.e. if it's foreign it can't be too "military-like" but if it's domestic then the sky's the limit when it comes to all the imported no-nos such as bayonet lugs, hi-cap mags, flash supressors, etc.

Even if this study does become law (it's a long ways away from that) it'll be just like the assault rifle BS - buy the sanitized imported shotgun (it's mostly aimed at Saigas) and trick it out with all the aftermarket accessories that you want.

 

[James Huntsberger]

BATFE is going after the Saiga 12 shotguns and others on "sporting purpose" grounds. Saying that tactical and combat competitions (3-gun), are not sports. However the telescoping stock wording will include many turkey guns as well . This must be stopped don't think it won't effect you and let it slide.

 

[ccondon]

So if that is their thinking, if I put a pistol grip on any rifle or shotgun and cut off the stock it becomes a pistol, so I can also cut the barrel down to pistol length. ? Same logic, and still doesn't make it right.

 

[scouser]

.....
Third, the first step of anything is to take a piece nobody cares about.

This must not be allowed to happen. I'm all for buying American but that is a PERSONAL CHOICE, not something for the government to legislate.

In my mind the statement in bold is the most important thing for people to think about when any kind of restriction is discussed

 

[cawpin]

That is incorrect. The action of a pistol cannot have previously been assembled as a rifle, shotgun or other weapon. Putting a pistol only grip on a shotgun or rifle makes it an other weapon, not a pistol.

That isn't quite correct. If the overall length of the shotgun us still over 26 inches then it is still considered simply a shotgun. It does not matter if it just has a pistol grip with no butt stock.