AP article in my 9/9 paper describes a story of a 107 year old man who was killed by SWAT officers in a standoff on 9/8 in Pine Bluff, AK. Sorry I am not good with posting article, but regardless of the events leading to and ending with the death, this story begs for an understanding and appreciation of SWAT tactics requiring such an ending. Something is truly wrong--IMO.
Arkansas SWAT kills a 107 year old man
- Thread starter kelcarry
- Start date
Do you just think the SWATS would know some of this and not force the issue this way? He was 107 and he deserves to be a lttle "bat ****" crazy. It is just the idea that they HAD TO confront. The article says "it was clear that negotiations weren't working"--golly gee--he is 107. Leave him alone and he will fall asleep.
He was 107. Leave him alone a while, and he will either fall asleep, over dead, or go out the back door for the early bird meal at the diner. Then you can arrest him and jail him for life for having the temerity to shoot at a cop. Life in prison may have been his solution to not enough social security to live on anyway....
dad45acp
New member
Its funny to see how people can get distracted by age even when the active shooter in this scenario is just as dangerous as a 30 yr old with a gun. Aside from that, none of us know how the negotiations broke down and how the decision was made to make entry. Something profound must have been said or initiated by the suspect. Because in these cases, however LE reacts is based on the actions of the BG.
Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
ozarkgunner
Custom fabricator
Sorry "dad45acp", I dont agree with you when you say LE actions are a result of BG's actions. Innocent people are wrongfully searched, detained, beaten, and shot and killed simply because some LE think they can do as they wish simply because they are LE. It happens all the time. I'm saying that was the case here, it could have been, I dont know. Im not giving the old guy a pass simply because he was old. Im saying dont immediately come to LE's defense simply because they are LE.
I know a lot of good LE, and I've met a lot of bad LE. Don't rush to judgement either way, on either shooters part.
I will relay an incident that happened to me about two months ago. CPS was called to my house falsely by a neighbor of mine because we were having a dispute. I get a call from my sister-in-law telling me that theres a sherrifs deputy pounding on my door, scaring the hell out of my kids. I rush home, my wife was already there, figuring out what was going on. Talking with the deputy, he starts to berate me and my wife for telling our kids not to open the door for anybody when there is no adult present in the house. I tell him that that is our children's only defense when we are not home, and he says that he has the "right as a deputy to kick in" my door, because he heard people inside and a child crying. My daughter was crying because someone was pounding on the door yelling at them. I told the deputy that anyone other than me kicking in my front door will be shot, regardless of who they are. He got very defensive saying that he has the right to do so if he thinks something going on inside, and I told him I have the same right to shoot someone trying to kick in my door, LE or other. He didnt want to acknowledge the fact that there are bad LE, or some bad guy in a uniform trying to gain access to my house and children. I escorted him out of my house, with the county Sherrif on the phone with my, telling both that the next person pounding on my door and threatening to kick it in would be carried away in a body bag, and the Sherrif agreed, on speaker phone. I know the Sherrif and the deputies father, he is my lawyer. The deputy could have been reprimanded for his unlawfull actions, but I declined to press charges against him. Seeing the look on his face as the Sherrif told him I was right was enough.
So, not all LE actions are justified.
I know a lot of good LE, and I've met a lot of bad LE. Don't rush to judgement either way, on either shooters part.
I will relay an incident that happened to me about two months ago. CPS was called to my house falsely by a neighbor of mine because we were having a dispute. I get a call from my sister-in-law telling me that theres a sherrifs deputy pounding on my door, scaring the hell out of my kids. I rush home, my wife was already there, figuring out what was going on. Talking with the deputy, he starts to berate me and my wife for telling our kids not to open the door for anybody when there is no adult present in the house. I tell him that that is our children's only defense when we are not home, and he says that he has the "right as a deputy to kick in" my door, because he heard people inside and a child crying. My daughter was crying because someone was pounding on the door yelling at them. I told the deputy that anyone other than me kicking in my front door will be shot, regardless of who they are. He got very defensive saying that he has the right to do so if he thinks something going on inside, and I told him I have the same right to shoot someone trying to kick in my door, LE or other. He didnt want to acknowledge the fact that there are bad LE, or some bad guy in a uniform trying to gain access to my house and children. I escorted him out of my house, with the county Sherrif on the phone with my, telling both that the next person pounding on my door and threatening to kick it in would be carried away in a body bag, and the Sherrif agreed, on speaker phone. I know the Sherrif and the deputies father, he is my lawyer. The deputy could have been reprimanded for his unlawfull actions, but I declined to press charges against him. Seeing the look on his face as the Sherrif told him I was right was enough.
So, not all LE actions are justified.
Engineeringtech
New member
I don't know anything about this situation, but I think the police, in general, could stand to learn some patience. A few years ago, in this area, SWAT went to a home to arrest a suspect. They entered his room, and found him sitting on his bed with a guy to his own head. They immediately opened fire, hitting him something like 26 times. Maybe they thought they were just obliging his wish to commit suicide, but what if the guy was innocent of the charges, but mentally ill? And we never found out if the guy had any accomplices.
More recently we had police send a dog into a building after a suspect who NOT shot at them. As usual they expected the dog to bite the suspect. What was the suspect to do? He shot the dog to keep from being bitten. And as a result, the SWAT team fired a hail of bullets into the building. No one was going to hurt THEIR dog! Judge, jury and executioner. Now our stupid legislators have made it a felony to hurt a police dog. But it is ok for the police to use deadly force on YOUR dog, if they feel the slightest bit threatened. And they have... by minature poodles.
Time anf again police will start a high speed chase, risking life and death of the suspect and innocent bystanders rather than call ahead for a road block. Same mentality.
The old guy probably just needed some time and talking.
More recently we had police send a dog into a building after a suspect who NOT shot at them. As usual they expected the dog to bite the suspect. What was the suspect to do? He shot the dog to keep from being bitten. And as a result, the SWAT team fired a hail of bullets into the building. No one was going to hurt THEIR dog! Judge, jury and executioner. Now our stupid legislators have made it a felony to hurt a police dog. But it is ok for the police to use deadly force on YOUR dog, if they feel the slightest bit threatened. And they have... by minature poodles.
Time anf again police will start a high speed chase, risking life and death of the suspect and innocent bystanders rather than call ahead for a road block. Same mentality.
The old guy probably just needed some time and talking.
dad45acp
New member
Thanks for your personal story but my point was in regards to a standoff situation which the BG initiates what kind of response ensues. Standoffs can lasts for hours and hours if there isn't an immediate threat. That's why its seemed obvious something drastic changed in this scenario.
Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
r1derbike
New member
Bullets coming through the front door would be the change in the standoff that would invoke deadly entrance. Police, bystanders, and innocents caught in the line of fire are unacceptable risks. If this portion of the story is true, they did their job. I don't know all the circumstances of the standoff leading up to the fatal shooting, but bullets zinging through a door from the inside out is a game changer.
gejoslin
Illegitimi non carborundu
Sorry for the ol' dude but they're all a little bat crap looney in that part of Pine Bluff anyway. High crime rate and lots of shootings from the gangs. Always on high alert in that area. Once outside town it's pretty peaceful. As is most of AR, it's the run down areas in the larger towns were most of the trouble is. imo
dogshawred
New member
Today, who isn't a little bat-sh!t crazy?
I found this CBS report of the incident and it seems the old guy was given some time and steps were taken to work it out. Was the old guy confused, scared or as previously pointed out bat-sh!t crazy, no one is ever going to find out now that he has been terminated.
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Link Removed
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In a statement to CBS affiliate KTHV-TV in Little Rock, the Pine Bluff Police Department say the incident occurred after officers responded to a disturbance.
*
Upon arrival, police found an "Aggravated Assault" against two people had occurred. The pair were evacuated from the home for their own safety, according to The Associated Press. Officers approached a bedroom to look for the 107-year-old, Monroe Isadore.
*
Police say that when they approached the bedroom where Isadore was hiding and announced their presence, he shot at them. Backup was called in, as well as a SWAT team, and further negotiations failed to get Isadore to turn himself in, according to police.
~
There are so many variables to be considered about the incident that we as long distance by standers have no knowledge. So it is safe to say that this a tragic event and could have gone a number of different ways depending upon individuals actions. Those individuals alone will have to live with the decisions they made that day and will be held accountable if their actions were contrary to social conscious.
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Taking sides with what limited information available at this time is just not prudent and simply inflames emotions that could otherwise be more constructively directed.
I found this CBS report of the incident and it seems the old guy was given some time and steps were taken to work it out. Was the old guy confused, scared or as previously pointed out bat-sh!t crazy, no one is ever going to find out now that he has been terminated.
~
Link Removed
~
In a statement to CBS affiliate KTHV-TV in Little Rock, the Pine Bluff Police Department say the incident occurred after officers responded to a disturbance.
*
Upon arrival, police found an "Aggravated Assault" against two people had occurred. The pair were evacuated from the home for their own safety, according to The Associated Press. Officers approached a bedroom to look for the 107-year-old, Monroe Isadore.
*
Police say that when they approached the bedroom where Isadore was hiding and announced their presence, he shot at them. Backup was called in, as well as a SWAT team, and further negotiations failed to get Isadore to turn himself in, according to police.
~
There are so many variables to be considered about the incident that we as long distance by standers have no knowledge. So it is safe to say that this a tragic event and could have gone a number of different ways depending upon individuals actions. Those individuals alone will have to live with the decisions they made that day and will be held accountable if their actions were contrary to social conscious.
~
Taking sides with what limited information available at this time is just not prudent and simply inflames emotions that could otherwise be more constructively directed.
:sarcastic: So the bullets from the police magically stop and will not continue moving through their target or walls, Gee they should sell them to the citizens so we to will have magic bullets that only hit the target and stop.:sarcastic:
Sorry but what LE did was wrong. The man was 107 years old come on now how well could he have aimed and shot? Let alone the recoil from the gun on his old man arms... I not being a police officer would be more concerned about a 60 year old man with a gun then a 107 year old man with one. Being that the older man can't see well or have the strength to hold the gun at their target when firing it.
Instead of being in a hurry and calling in the SWAT team why not just wait till the man falls asleep or dies from old age? I am sure that he did not just start shooting through the door for no reason. All of you defending this kind of action from the police need to come to your senses. The police never get tried for murder when they shoot and kill a person unlawfully it just get swept under the rug and Their chief says we can not hold them responsible because the police will not be able to due their job if they have to worry about being held responsible for their actions even though their actions would land us citizens in jail for murder.
Sorry but what LE did was wrong. The man was 107 years old come on now how well could he have aimed and shot? Let alone the recoil from the gun on his old man arms... I not being a police officer would be more concerned about a 60 year old man with a gun then a 107 year old man with one. Being that the older man can't see well or have the strength to hold the gun at their target when firing it.
Instead of being in a hurry and calling in the SWAT team why not just wait till the man falls asleep or dies from old age? I am sure that he did not just start shooting through the door for no reason. All of you defending this kind of action from the police need to come to your senses. The police never get tried for murder when they shoot and kill a person unlawfully it just get swept under the rug and Their chief says we can not hold them responsible because the police will not be able to due their job if they have to worry about being held responsible for their actions even though their actions would land us citizens in jail for murder.
dad45acp
New member
Interested in hearing what you think the cut off age should be in order to engage someone who is violent with a firearm, created a police stand off, and failed negotiations. (Insert Willy Wonka meme here)
Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
jcreek
New member
The whole reason the police were there was to investigate an aggravated assault he committed on two other residents of the house. An agg assault isn't something that they can just "leave alone" simply because of his age. He shot at the cops, they shot back. I agree that police too often abuse their power but this was not one of those instances IMO.
To everybody who says the police were in the wrong on this: if a 107 year old man, or a woman, or a 12 year old kid, pulled a gun on you and started shooting at you, what would you do? When somebody starts shooting at you they are no longer a man, a woman, or a child, they are a threat that needs to be neutralized.
He started shooting when the cavalry arrived and announced their presence. The original problem had already been defused--no one was in danger anymore-- except-- obviously the 107 year old from the police. He is 107 for heaven's sake and that does not mean anything to you? You are kidding? Right?. All the cavalry had to do was leave him alone and defuse their presence and his lack of control, which should have been understandable to the police. He is 107--what else needs to be said to have you chill a bit with your replies and commentary.
dad45acp
New member
Irrelevant
I located this story from the from the news paper listed below. I can't condone the actions taken against this old man, the house was surrounded and contained, posing no threat to the public.
I believe they could have waited him out, the guy was 107 years old heck he probably would have fallen asleep.
Christian Science Monitor
107-year-old man killed in gun battle with SWAT team (+video)
Centenarian Monroe Isadore shot at police and was killed when a SWAT team gassed his bedroom and broke down his door. It's unclear what might have set off the confrontation.
By Mark Sappenfield, Staff writer / September 8, 2013
This house was the scene of the Saturday shooting death of an elderly man in Pine Bluff, Ark.
Danny Johnston/AP
In Pictures Policing America
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A SWAT team in Pine Bluff, Ark., shot and killed a 107-year-old man Saturday during a gun battle in which both sides exchanged fire.
Mark Sappenfield
Staff writer
Mark is deputy national news editor for the Monitor.
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09.08.13
107-year-old man killed in gun battle with SWAT team (+video)
The situation began when local police responded to a complaint. The elderly man, Monroe Isadore, allegedly pointed a gun at two people. Over the next three hours, the situation escalated to the point that a SWAT team gassed the room and broke down the door, resulting in the shootout that left Mr. Isadore dead.
No law enforcement officers were injured.
RECOMMENDED: Crime falls in the US. Are you safer today?
A public police report does not address the cause of the disturbance, but it states that police arriving on the scene at about 4:30 p.m. "were able to determine that an Aggravated Assault had occurred against two people at the residence," according to a transcript obtained by WTHV-11 TV. Isadore "had pointed a weapon at them," the report says.
Police sent the two people away; the report mentions no injuries. But when police approached the door of the bedroom where Isadore was believed to be, he opened fire through the door. No officers were injured, and the officers called for support.
Supervising officers arrived and began negotiations with Isadore, according to the Pine Bluff Commercial. When a SWAT team arrived on site, it took up tactical positions around the house, the Commerical reports.
By inserting a camera into the room, the SWAT team determined that Isadore was armed. When Isadore refused to surrender his weapon, the SWAT team pumped gas into the room. Isadore responded with gunfire, according to multiple reports.
At that point, the SWAT team entered the room. "Shortly afterwards, a S.W.A.T. entry team, inside the residence, breached the door to the bedroom and threw a distraction device into the bedroom," the police report says. "Isadore then began to fire on the entry team and the entry team engaged Isadore, killing him."
Isadore appeared to have suffered multiple gunshot wounds, Deputy Coroner Eric Belcher told the Commercial. Isadore was pronounced dead at 7:23 p.m.
It is unclear why law enforcement officials determined that gas was needed to force out Isadore after a few hours of negotiation, precipitating the fatal gun battle.
I believe they could have waited him out, the guy was 107 years old heck he probably would have fallen asleep.
Christian Science Monitor
107-year-old man killed in gun battle with SWAT team (+video)
Centenarian Monroe Isadore shot at police and was killed when a SWAT team gassed his bedroom and broke down his door. It's unclear what might have set off the confrontation.
By Mark Sappenfield, Staff writer / September 8, 2013
This house was the scene of the Saturday shooting death of an elderly man in Pine Bluff, Ark.
Danny Johnston/AP
In Pictures Policing America
Enlarge
Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on stumbleupon Share on email
A SWAT team in Pine Bluff, Ark., shot and killed a 107-year-old man Saturday during a gun battle in which both sides exchanged fire.
Mark Sappenfield
Staff writer
Mark is deputy national news editor for the Monitor.
Recent posts
09.09.13
George Zimmerman questioned after wife calls 911: 'He's gonna shoot us' (+video)
09.09.13
New York mayor's race: Is liberal a lock to win Democratic nomination?
09.08.13
107-year-old man killed in gun battle with SWAT team (+video)
The situation began when local police responded to a complaint. The elderly man, Monroe Isadore, allegedly pointed a gun at two people. Over the next three hours, the situation escalated to the point that a SWAT team gassed the room and broke down the door, resulting in the shootout that left Mr. Isadore dead.
No law enforcement officers were injured.
RECOMMENDED: Crime falls in the US. Are you safer today?
A public police report does not address the cause of the disturbance, but it states that police arriving on the scene at about 4:30 p.m. "were able to determine that an Aggravated Assault had occurred against two people at the residence," according to a transcript obtained by WTHV-11 TV. Isadore "had pointed a weapon at them," the report says.
Police sent the two people away; the report mentions no injuries. But when police approached the door of the bedroom where Isadore was believed to be, he opened fire through the door. No officers were injured, and the officers called for support.
Supervising officers arrived and began negotiations with Isadore, according to the Pine Bluff Commercial. When a SWAT team arrived on site, it took up tactical positions around the house, the Commerical reports.
By inserting a camera into the room, the SWAT team determined that Isadore was armed. When Isadore refused to surrender his weapon, the SWAT team pumped gas into the room. Isadore responded with gunfire, according to multiple reports.
At that point, the SWAT team entered the room. "Shortly afterwards, a S.W.A.T. entry team, inside the residence, breached the door to the bedroom and threw a distraction device into the bedroom," the police report says. "Isadore then began to fire on the entry team and the entry team engaged Isadore, killing him."
Isadore appeared to have suffered multiple gunshot wounds, Deputy Coroner Eric Belcher told the Commercial. Isadore was pronounced dead at 7:23 p.m.
It is unclear why law enforcement officials determined that gas was needed to force out Isadore after a few hours of negotiation, precipitating the fatal gun battle.
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