ARD and Firearms Possession

[utimmer43]

A friend of mine recently got nailed for DUI and is going through the ARD program. He had been considering purchasing his first firearm, getting a permit, etc., but was told by a co-worker (who apparently has extensive knowledge of DUI stuff:alcoholic that while in the ARD program, one may not possess a firearm, even in their own house.

I'll admit that it's been a while since I've read the PA UFA, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't anything like that in there. Can anyone point to any statutes that would preclude someone enrolled in ARD from possessing a firearm?

I ask in advance that you please spare me the speech about how alcohol and firearms don't mix, how a DUI is a sign of someone who should not own firearms, or any other such "advice".

 

[Ed Hamberger]

I hate to say this, but I sure don't want to see someone with a CCW permit, a handgun, and a DUI conviction. That's just me though. Here in NC that is one of the things the Sheriff checks... your criminal background check, and it better be clean. leasantry:

 

[utimmer43]

I hate to say this, but I sure don't want to see someone with a CCW permit, a handgun, and a DUI conviction. That's just me though. Here in NC that is one of the things the Sheriff checks... your criminal background check, and it better be clean. leasantry:

Thank you for completely ignoring the last sentence, and in general not answering my question.

 

[stove]

In colorado a simple DUI will not prevent owning but will impact getting a CCW. Depends on the state.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Found here... 18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms

More specifically...

18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms:

(g) Other restrictions.--Nothing in this section shall exempt a person from a disability in relation to the possession or control of a firearm which is imposed as a condition of probation or parole or which is imposed pursuant to the provision of any law other than this section.

I am not a lawyer, but to try to put this in layman's terms as best I can...

Under ARD, probation, or parole, basically the "accused" enters into an agreement as to the terms of the ARD, probation, or parole. One of the terms of the agreement is, no possession of firearms.

So it is more of an agreement than a statute. Your friend always had the right to stand trial and take his chances. ARD (for example) is just an opportunity to take the easy way out.

Hope this helps, if I've explained it well enough. I was recently a participant in this very same conversation, and this is the understanding I took from it.


Edited To Add: It is my understanding that your buddy should be clear to possess/carry once he has completed his ARD. The same statute I listed above in 1605(c)(3) shows that 3 DUIs or more in a 5-year period becomes a prohibited person. Also understand that his local Sheriff's Office may elect to deny a PA LTCF under the "character and reputation" clause for something less than the "3 or more DUIs in 5 years" stipulation.
.

 

[Austin]

Thank you for completely ignoring the last sentence, and in general not answering my question.

That was pretty harsh to say to someone that appeared to try to be helping you. Just saying...

 

[Curmudgeon]

Just my opinion, not that you asked for it :biggrin: I didn't find the OP's response to be harsh* at all. In fact, I thought it was rather appropriate.



*harsh... 3. Severe, cruel, or exacting:

...from here... Link Removed

 

[utimmer43]

That was pretty harsh to say to someone that appeared to try to be helping you. Just saying...

When someone asks for clear cut facts, opinions are not helpful. Such is the problem with internet forums.

Found here... 18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms

More specifically...





I am not a lawyer, but to try to put this in layman's terms as best I can...

Under ARD, probation, or parole, basically the "accused" enters into an agreement as to the terms of the ARD, probation, or parole. One of the terms of the agreement is, no possession of firearms.

So it is more of an agreement than a statute. Your friend always had the right to stand trial and take his chances. ARD (for example) is just an opportunity to take the easy way out.

Hope this helps, if I've explained it well enough. I was recently a participant in this very same conversation, and this is the understanding I took from it.


Edited To Add: It is my understanding that your buddy should be clear to possess/carry once he has completed his ARD. The same statute I listed above in 1605(c)(3) shows that 3 DUIs or more in a 5-year period becomes a prohibited person. Also understand that his local Sheriff's Office may elect to deny a PA LTCF under the "character and reputation" clause for something less than the "3 or more DUIs in 5 years" stipulation.
.

THANK YOU!! Exactly what I was looking for. I had remembered the 3 DUIs in 5 years part, but I was 99% sure there wasn't anything about ARD specifically. That it could be a condition of the program, imposed by the judge makes sense to me now.

Thanks again.

 

[TSkI]

ARD is different from probation or parole as it is a "suspended prosecution". For one to be put on probation one must be convicted of a crime, and for one to be released on parole one must have served time in prison after (or before) their conviction and be released before the end of their entire sentence. ARD is different in that there is no conviction but instead extended litigation. Your buddy signed a waiver relinquishing his right to a speedy trial but ask him if he signed anything that stated that he was not to possess weapons. Don't get me wrong, your friend wouldn't be able to buy a firearm or get a License to Carry Firearms because he is awaiting disposition but If he already has a firearm it can not be taken away because there is NO CONVICTION, and if he has his License to Carry Firearms, It should not be suspended because there is NO CONVICTION.

 

[jeanfor]

Guns on the property - PA

Somebody in my household is on the ARD program for a non violent misdemeanor case and in the paper the person signed it says that the person should not possess any weapons or have weapons on the property. Now I have a carry permit and do own several guns that are in safe boxes. I was told by the parole officer that I could not keep my guns even locked eventhough I have not committed any crime. How should I deal with this situation. Thanks

 

[Curmudgeon]

Somebody in my household is on the ARD program for a non violent misdemeanor case and in the paper the person signed it says that the person should not possess any weapons or have weapons on the property. Now I have a carry permit and do own several guns that are in safe boxes. I was told by the parole officer that I could not keep my guns even locked eventhough I have not committed any crime. How should I deal with this situation. Thanks

"It's complicated". Have you contacted an attorney? When I had this same situation with a family member a couple years ago, I contacted an attorney. I also looked up the laws myself (to the best of my ability) although I am not a lawyer.

What it came down to was that all my guns and ammo were locked in a safe with the exception of the one I had locked in a retention holster on my hip. Guns and ammo were never left laying around.

This 'person' in your household, and it is your household, right? This person cannot have access to any guns or ammo while on probation/ARD. If the 'person' violates that rule they may forfeit their probation/ARD and are subject to sentencing. That is what they risk. Know your rights. It is not you that is on probation, and your property (guns) is not subject to seizure. Make sure that it is not you who would be violating any rules by making or carelessly allowing your 'person' to have access.

I had to tell my family member that he had to accept my guns and work it out with his probation people because I was not changing anything. He sat down with them and told them straight out that my property was locked in a safe or on my 'person' and that was that. He said they did a lot of huffing and puffing, but nothing further came of it.

Here is a key element to all this that both you and your 'person' need to understand. The court offered ARD as an alternative to sentencing. Part of that alternative was that a deal was agreed to by both parties. Chances are that 'no firearms" was an important part of that deal, and by staying at your place with your guns around, your 'person' is violating his part of the agreement, and is therefore subjecting himself to sentencing. This is his/her risk, not yours. You are not doing anything wrong, but your 'person' could do jail time for failing to keep his/her end of the bargain by choosing living arrangements that are free from guns.

Choices:

1. Work out an agreement and understanding with the prob/ARD people about the guns and ammo that you will be keeping in your house, OR
2. Your "person" on ARD will have to move out and seek alternative living arrangements, OR
3. You can choose to have all your guns and ammo removed from your property and safely stored off property, OR
4. Your "person" can forfeit their ARD and choose the sentencing alternative.

Make sense? We chose #1 above and made it work.

 

[longslide10]

I hate to say this, but I sure don't want to see someone with a CCW permit, a handgun, and a DUI conviction. That's just me though. Here in NC that is one of the things the Sheriff checks... your criminal background check, and it better be clean. leasantry:

Lots of people make mistakes and end up with a dui from ditch diggers to judges to politicians but it doesn't mean they should be denied their right to own and carry a firearm unless they are habitual offenders, violent felons or have a mental issue that would prevent them from making a rational judgement