Anyone have experience with the FN 57 pistol used in the Fort Hood Shootings ?

[preventec47]

I read where NATO evaluated it as superior to 9mm and wanted to change to it as standard issue.
It has 30 percent less recoil than the 9mm, the ammo weighs half, and it penetrates armor so it
must be effectively lethal and it has flatter trajectory than 9mm. So if a pistol recoils less and has
a flatter trajectory and allows for more ammo to be carried in magazine, and is adequately lethal,
maybe we ought to take a closer look at it. Wikipedia says 40 countries use it for military and police
activity etc.

I know it is upsetting but the Ft Hood shooter demonstrated it's effectiveness. Should we take a look
at it?

 

[kelcarry]

I read where NATO evaluated it as superior to 9mm and wanted to change to it as standard issue.
It has 30 percent less recoil than the 9mm, the ammo weighs half, and it penetrates armor so it
must be effectively lethal and it has flatter trajectory than 9mm. So if a pistol recoils less and has
a flatter trajectory and allows for more ammo to be carried in magazine, and is adequately lethal,
maybe we ought to take a closer look at it. Wikipedia says 40 countries use it for military and police
activity etc.

I have had one for about 2 years and so do 2 of my friends. Everything you say is true and more. I purchased it for lo recoil, high capacity, comparative light weight and significant lethality. It is fun to practice with because of less recoil and it has all the other advantages you mention, as long as you leave cost out of the equation for the firearm and its cartridges. I purchased at $870 and, with friends, purchased a considerable amount of ammo at a time when I paid only $16 per 50. I do not practice with hundreds of rounds with the current price of ammo although it is now down considerably from its real hey day at around $50-70 when the firearm was offered for sale for prices over $1500. All in all a great firearm that I feel fortunate to have. I keep the firearm loaded with a boutique 57 ammo offered by Elite ammo-look them up for several variants on the standard 57 197 ammo.

I know it is upsetting but the Ft Hood shooter demonstrated it's effectiveness. Should we take a look
at it?

I have had one for about 2 years and so do 2 of my friends. Everything you say is true and more. I purchased it for lo recoil, high capacity, comparative light weight and significant lethality-- particularly with the lo recoil, I can feel sure that I will hit what I aim at. It is fun to practice with because of less recoil and it has all the other advantages you mention, as long as you leave cost out of the equation for the firearm and its cartridges. I purchased at $870 and, with friends, purchased a considerable amount of ammo at a time when I paid only $16 per 50. I do not practice with hundreds of rounds with the current price of ammo although it is now down considerably from its real hey day at around $50-70 when the firearm was offered for sale for prices over $1500. All in all a great firearm that I feel fortunate to have. I keep the firearm loaded with a boutique 57 ammo offered by Elite ammo-look them up for several variants on the standard 57 197 ammo. I use a more frangible ammo since my main use of firearm is in the home. I do not practice much with this ammo--I think I ended up spending about a $1 a bullet. Go to a shop where rentals are available and try it out. It is, as you say, "something to look at".

 

[bofh]

FYI: FNH USA Five-Seven ? PS90 and the 5.7X28 Cartridge - USA Carry and Gun Review: FN Five-SeveN - The Truth About Guns

 

[Firefighterchen]

Just to clarify, it has the potential to fire a specific cartridge that is armor piercing...unfortunately the government restricts that's ammo.

"Civilian allowed" ammo is not armor penetrating.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[apvbguy]

while some rounds made in that caliber can pierce kevlar vests the legal available rounds will not pierce kevlar when fired from a pistol

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

Just to be sure everyone's up to date with definitions; "Armor Piercing" isn't rated by a bullet's ability to pierce armor but by it's construction. A bullet may slice through Kevlar like a hot lightsaber through a Tauntan and not be defined as armor piercing because it doesn't meet the definition of what an armor piercing bullet is. Similarly, a bullet could exactly meet the definition and yet be so weak as to barely break the skin.
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.​

One will notice that nowhere in the definition is the actual performance of the bullet mentioned.

 

[BigSlick]

Armor piercing is a term that gets misused all the time. Almost any high velocity rifle round will defeat soft body armor and if it doesn't penetrate it can still deliver lethal trauma depending on where the round strikes.

 

[preventec47]

As much as I appreciate the new knowledge regarding the definition of armor piercing, I hoped we could discuss
the merits of a pistol that supposedly was adopted by NATO and has been chosen for use by 40 countries.

I would expect the arguments for it compared to the 9mm to be similar to the arguments comparing 9mm to 45 ACP.

I read on another forum where a guy was hunting and shooting hogs at relatively close ranges which seems foolhardy
but it it worked ,,, it worked. ( seems too much like a 22rimfire magnum to me from a technical standpoint )

On the other hand, two guys at Ft Hood charged the shooter and were cut down though I dont know their specific
level of motivation. The PS90 rifle was released in 1990 and the pistol about ten years later according to wikipedia,
I imagine these little bullets being sprayed at 16 rounds per second could be a little intimidating.

 

[bofh]

Switching the service caliber generally comes at a cost. Think about the amount of guns, replacement parts, and ammo currently stockpiled in the old caliber that needs to be rotated out and the corresponding components that in the new caliber need to be rotated in. The bigger the agency, the bigger the cost.

Switching a service gun requires retraining, as different guns have different controls. This is another cost factor.

The handgun is the backup in the military. The rifle is the primary weapon. Just switching out the handgun caliber to 5.7x28mm is a waste of money. Switching both, handgun and rifle caliber, to 5.7x28mm to only deal with one service caliber is quite an adventure.

As already pointed out, the military and LE agencies have access to different ammo. For everyone else, 5.7x28mm in a handgun is not penetrating body armor. 5.7x28mm in a rifle is penetrating body armor, but so are other rifle calibers.

The P90 has the fun switch (900 RPM full auto) and is restricted, while the PS90 is the semi-auto variant you can actually buy personally. The Five-Seven is generally semi-auto.

5.7x28mm ballistics: Link Removed and 5.7x28mm "Cop Killer" Cartridge Myth.

The price of ammo and the low number of guns chambered in this caliber (2) is a severe concern.

Note that personal defense, military use and hunting are entirely different use cases.

 

[rjfleming]

I had a chance to fire both a PS90 and the FN 57 two years ago and liked the PS 90 (but not enough for the price) but the ergonomics and safety location on the pistol were not for me. The pistol was certainly flat shooting and reasonable recoil.

 

[mooosie]

I love my 5.7 pistol light accurate mag extensions and it holds 30 rounds ammo is coming down in price now about 60 cents a round certainly not cheap but available as i collect brass I will start reloading which also opens up booolits I can use fun fun fun



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kelcarry]

I love my 5.7 pistol light accurate mag extensions and it holds 30 rounds ammo is coming down in price now about 60 cents a round certainly not cheap but available as i collect brass I will start reloading which also opens up booolits I can use fun fun fun



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure where you live but you can purchase FN57 for under $60 and it you really keep looking--around $45 and you can buy the AE equivalent for target shooting for around $40 all day. Still not cheap, including the firearm itself, but "to each his own".

 

[mooosie]

That was 60 cents a round not 60 dollars a box I buy them for about 30 dollars for a box of 50 I think that figures out to 60 cents each


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[preventec47]

I saw the link to the guy who compared the FN 5.7 to the 22 rimfire magnum and given the similarities in ballistics, I realize now
more than ever the importance of bullet placement ( and firepower in terms of capacity ) as opposed to bullet power considering the
devastation created at at Fort Hood by the TERRORIST
I may need to rethink my hand cannons.

 

[mooosie]

Other than the fact they are both 22 s I see very little in common


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[preventec47]

Other than the fact they are both 22 s I see very little in common

I assume you noticed very similar bullet weights, velocity and the resulting foot pounds of energy.....
What else is there.... ? besides bullet construction. There is a large variety of 22 rimfire magnum bullets to choose from
to the effect that you should be able to duplicate the civilian available FN 57 ammo.

 

[BigSlick]

I assume you noticed very similar bullet weights, velocity and the resulting foot pounds of energy.....
What else is there.... ? besides bullet construction. There is a large variety of 22 rimfire magnum bullets to choose from
to the effect that you should be able to duplicate the civilian available FN 57 ammo.

Agreed! I don't really see the need for the 5.7 cartridge which the .22 magnum is very close to in power and velocity, plus it's a lot cheaper too. It would have been nice in the video if the guy had a .22 mag rifle for testing. The P90 is an interesting rifle by design and looks like it would be fun as hell to shoot. To bad one is not available for the .22 magnum. I think I read an article where you can buy a P90 stock that fits the Ruger 1022 but I can't recall if the magazine still attached from the bottom or the top. It's a neat looking gun though. Would like to have one in a .223.

 

[mooosie]

Well the 57 is a center fire and is reloadable reloads easily outperform factory ammo both rim fire 22 mag and 57 and all you can do with 22 mag brass is scrap it there are many many 223 bullits available which drastically change the balistics is the 57 more expensive to shoot than 22 mag sure so is 9 mm if 22 mag was equal or just as good nato squads, European police, the cia and others would be shooting it so I have no problem with 22 mag I have two of them but they can't compare to the 57 you can enjoy both or either one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bofh]

The PS90 (don't confuse it with the full-auto P90) would be certainly fun to shoot and may be very well a good home defense weapon. There are Link Removed and it does have a size and loaded weight advantage over other rifles. Note that the video, I posted, tested the PS90 in a SBR configuration with a 10.5" barrel. A standard 16" barrel will give you higher velocities and better performance.

Now, MAC (Military Arms Channel) has recently become a fan of the IWI Tavor. As a battle-proven bullpup rifle chambered in 5.56/.223 with a 16.5" or 18" barrel, it is ideal as a home defense rifle. It is also similar in size and weight to the PS90. Unfortunately, the Tavor is even more expensive ($2,000).

Tavor - IWI US
Gun Review: IWI TAVOR SAR | The Truth About Guns
T-REx rail for the IWI Tavor | The Bang Switch
Geissele Super Sabra Trigger Pack for the IWI Tavor | The Bang Switch

 

[kelcarry]

Other than the fact they are both 22 s I see very little in common


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recently reviewed a video from the Firearm Blog that showed the gel ballistics results from the 57 that the public can buy vs the 22mag that the public can buy and they were very similar if not better for the 22 mag. It is the non-public 57 where the REAL difference lies. I have a 57 and love it. It is not a rimfire like the 22mag, which, in my book makes a big difference. I have a 22 LR firearm and it is not as reliable as the 57 and that is a big difference if I am thinking of relying on the 22mag platform vs the 57.