Another shooting....
- Thread starter gunnerbob
- Start date
captain384
New member
NEW YORK (AP) - New York City officials say several people have been shot outside the Empire State Building and that the gunman is dead.
City police say three or four civilians have been wounded in the Friday morning shooting and that the shooter is dead.
A fire department spokesman says it received a call about the shooting just after at 9 a.m. Friday and that emergency units were on the scene within minutes.
The spokesman had no information about how many people were wounded or their conditions.
The shooting occurred at 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.
City police say three or four civilians have been wounded in the Friday morning shooting and that the shooter is dead.
A fire department spokesman says it received a call about the shooting just after at 9 a.m. Friday and that emergency units were on the scene within minutes.
The spokesman had no information about how many people were wounded or their conditions.
The shooting occurred at 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
This entire story is just not possible......
Everybody knows that firearms are just not permitted within New York City!
SR40c
Done told her once...
Based on the anti-gun lobby's logic, security guards should no longer be allowed to carry firearms.
BC1
,
For those that don't know NYC:
Bloomberg abstained from talking gun-control but concluded his press conference this morning with the statement, "remember there's an awful lot of guns out there."
Should NYC allow CCW permits? I don't have the answer to that. I can't even venture an opinion as it's like no place else in America. But that's a matter for the people of that city to decide, not us. And they don't seem to want this. So the result of their actions is that the illegal gun and the lunatic will always be a presence. Enter at your own risk.
- Witnesses didn't know what they heard. Never heard a gun shot before.
- Australian tourists commenting this is precisley why they've outlawed guns.
- English tourist says she's going back home. Too violent here.
- Look at the people in the area around the incident. Oriental, middle-eastern, Hassidic, Jamaican (rasta), spanish. NYC is a huge mix of foreign-born people. This may explain the position of city residents. Most residents agree with Bloomberg that guns are the problem.
- For anyone who's spent time in Manhattan, rush hour is not car traffic, it's foot traffic. Millions of people are walking. Each intersection is many hundreds of people waiting to cross. Pedestrian traffic is so dense you really can't drive a car. It's a very small island-city with 8 million residents and many more commuting in by train and bus for work. My point? There is no safe direction to point a gun. The rules of personal protection require one have a "clean" shot and "clear" background before firing, even in defense. This is not my opinion, this is as per the course syllabus for PPOTH provided by the NRA. The NRA requires all certified instructors teach this. Given the uneducated, Rambo-like responses of many people on forums it is clear that many people can't wait to jump-in when Denny's is getting robbed. While that may work out OK, NYC has no safe direction to point a gun. Years of teaching PP courses and I still find the average person doesn't understand this key element. When I consider the number of wacked people I've met and seen on the streets of NYC, I shudder.
- According to Michael Bloomberg some of the shooting victims may have been shot by police. There's just no safe direction so this is will happen in such a crowded place.
Bloomberg abstained from talking gun-control but concluded his press conference this morning with the statement, "remember there's an awful lot of guns out there."
Should NYC allow CCW permits? I don't have the answer to that. I can't even venture an opinion as it's like no place else in America. But that's a matter for the people of that city to decide, not us. And they don't seem to want this. So the result of their actions is that the illegal gun and the lunatic will always be a presence. Enter at your own risk.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Good points bc1, i hadn't given enough thought about those circumstances as i do not visit cities that get that crowded (ie parts of Seattle and Portland) very much....though I don't entirely agree with calling people Rambo's...none the less that's not what the thread is about. You bring up valid points about guns in a city such as NYC. I actually don't care if NYC doesn't change its laws anymore, but I do wish he would keep his laws confined to his own city because as you said, it's a city like no where else in this country, and such should not try and push for laws for everywhere else because of that difference.
Everyone email your Congressmen and tell them we need more people to conceal carry in EVERY state. Including NY, Calif, and Illinois. If there had been someone with a CCW maybe more of these idiots would be down before they hurt to many people. People who conceal carry are a way of helping our society be safer. Time to realize there are too many bad guys with guns and not enough CCW's. The more the Government does to stop CCW the better criminals like it.
:victory:
:victory:
MamaLiberty
New member
First, letters to congresscritters are pointless. You are not going to change their minds anyway.
An ambush, as this shooting appears to be, could happen to anyone pretty much anywhere - armed or not. This was not a random shooting, but an execution. There is NOTHING anyone could do to actually prevent this. The man who was shot first probably never knew it happened. When people are so close to each other, 99% total strangers, any sort of attack is possible... he could have killed the guy with a knife, an ice pick or a lot of other things. The chances anyone would see it about to happen, with time to do anything... practically zero. Get over the idea that being armed is the answer to every kind of attack. It never will be.
As for there being "no safe direction" - sure there is. Center body mass of the attacker. Whether or not it would be wise to shoot in that situation would be an individual's call on the spot. Nobody could make that decision for anyone else. The cops, of course, could really use some good training and range time. It's just so much harder to shoot at bad guys instead of old ladies and drunk young men.
My answer is never to subject myself to large crowds, especially crowds of strangers. I'm never going to be there. So yes, if the people of New York City like what they have, they are most welcome to it.
Just keep old "Bloomie" to yourself and don't try pushing your victim disarmament in my town...
BC1
,
Chen I have to agree. But instructing for years shows me the Rambo's are out there. Just as there are good and bad dentists, doctors, accountants and carpenters, there are also bad gun owners anxious to fight. A good samaritan in mid-town Manhattan could cause more injury, just as the police did. It's just so crowded. The good mayor may cater to his base as long as they want to re-elect him. But he should keep his hands off other states and even upstate NY. We don't want his politics either.
Unfortunately I have to go to NYC regularly. There's a lot of bizarre stuff happening on the streets but very little violent crime per capita considering the mass of population in Manhattan. Mostly it's bizarre behavior you see... I've seen people peeing while talking at a phone booth, crapping in the gutter, chaining themselves to a pole shouting insane things, hitting everyone in the ass with a pushbroom because they're walking where he's sweeping, leashed poodles wearing $500 booties and raincoats. And the general masses seem oblivious to it all. To them it's all so normal. Very detached and uncaring, faces buried in their iPhones with no concern or knowledge of the world around them. For the most part people seem wound a little tight. You can get told to go screw yourself a half-dozen times a day. But most hard crime is in places like Brooklyn, New Lots, Bedford Stuy, Queens, Bronx, etc. This is usually perp-on-perp crime.
Reminds me of a funny story. I had an elderly aunt who lived in mid-town Manhattan. Her Yorkie Terrier of 12 years died. The vet told her to bring in the dog and she could have him cremated. She put the little guy in an old, small suitcase and went downstairs to the bus stop. While waiting some kid grabbed the suitcase and ran. She was so upset. End of story... until you realize then later when "Flaco" opened that suitcase to claim his booty he got a dead dog. THAT is typical NYC. Nutso!
And it's even worse.
Eleven People Shot Outside Empire State Building - The New York Times:
That's right. Police officers - guaranteed - were responsible for at least seven of the bystanders... (I'm going to even go out on a limb and assume that the shooter's one bullet magically hit two people.)
Therefore, this is a "mass shooting" where police officers, in doing their duty, shot more innocents than the shooter did. In fact, best case, one officer shot one person more and one officer shot the same number of people as the shooter. (*NOT* counting the shooter himself.)
Eleven People Shot Outside Empire State Building - The New York Times:
That's right. Police officers - guaranteed - were responsible for at least seven of the bystanders... (I'm going to even go out on a limb and assume that the shooter's one bullet magically hit two people.)
Therefore, this is a "mass shooting" where police officers, in doing their duty, shot more innocents than the shooter did. In fact, best case, one officer shot one person more and one officer shot the same number of people as the shooter. (*NOT* counting the shooter himself.)
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Are we talking about the same mayor that wanted his police to go on strike over gun laws, crazy but they are reporting that other than the perp and his intended victim the others were wounded by, guess what, police gunfire the evil guns must have made the police miss, bad gun evil gun and once again with many police around the protection was lacking every American should begin carrying under the 2nd Amendment and protect themselves NY is so anti gun the police must not train.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Actually, I think it's because we know without a doubt that NYC cops do train that we should take a lesson from the fact that at least as many innocents were hurt by them as by Postal Dude. It puts things into perspective.
In our training in the armored car business, we're taught that every single bullet that leaves the muzzle must be thought of as a law suit. Doesn't even matter if it hits its intended target, there's going to be an individual suit for every bullet that leaves the muzzle. Whether 100% true or not, the company has a rather obvious interest in promulgating the meme, because for the most part, it's true.
Unless there's a bullet-proof (no pun intended) immunity law for all those cops' bullets, they're going to find out just how true the meme is too. No one will assert that they intended to hurt anybody, but they will most assuredly assert that even cops can't deal with the excitement and flowing adrenaline in full-on combat, losing much of their ability to follow the shooting fundamentals they train in mostly sterile, calm exercises for. It won't surprise me at all to see serious consideration given to disarming NYC cops because of this incident. It's a perfect time to highlight Euro-weenie laws, like those of Great Britain, and push the globalist, UN-backed unquenchable thirst to disarm everyone except those who swear allegiance to the despots doing the disarming. Bloomin'Idiot fits right into that template like a hand in a glove.
I seriously doubt that LEO disarming would ever spread down here in the Deep South, or in mountain states like Montana, the Dakotas or Alaska, but anywhere that there's a major metropolitan city, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that such a movement could spread.
I will be very surprised if the general attitude of New Yorkers, or even Bloomin'Idiot and his staff themselves, is one of, "Well, of course we're very sorry that errant police bullets injured any innocent bystanders, but just think of how many more might have been killed if they weren't there to stop the shooter."
Anyway, I think their training should be taken as a warning to CC'ers - You can never train too much or too often, and even when you've trained as much as you can conceive of ever needing, it's time to train some more. This incident proves that even with expert training, innocents stand the chance of getting hurt by your deployed weapon even if/when you're 100% justified in pulling the trigger. Be careful out there folks.
Blues
In our training in the armored car business, we're taught that every single bullet that leaves the muzzle must be thought of as a law suit. Doesn't even matter if it hits its intended target, there's going to be an individual suit for every bullet that leaves the muzzle. Whether 100% true or not, the company has a rather obvious interest in promulgating the meme, because for the most part, it's true.
Unless there's a bullet-proof (no pun intended) immunity law for all those cops' bullets, they're going to find out just how true the meme is too. No one will assert that they intended to hurt anybody, but they will most assuredly assert that even cops can't deal with the excitement and flowing adrenaline in full-on combat, losing much of their ability to follow the shooting fundamentals they train in mostly sterile, calm exercises for. It won't surprise me at all to see serious consideration given to disarming NYC cops because of this incident. It's a perfect time to highlight Euro-weenie laws, like those of Great Britain, and push the globalist, UN-backed unquenchable thirst to disarm everyone except those who swear allegiance to the despots doing the disarming. Bloomin'Idiot fits right into that template like a hand in a glove.
I seriously doubt that LEO disarming would ever spread down here in the Deep South, or in mountain states like Montana, the Dakotas or Alaska, but anywhere that there's a major metropolitan city, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that such a movement could spread.
I will be very surprised if the general attitude of New Yorkers, or even Bloomin'Idiot and his staff themselves, is one of, "Well, of course we're very sorry that errant police bullets injured any innocent bystanders, but just think of how many more might have been killed if they weren't there to stop the shooter."
Anyway, I think their training should be taken as a warning to CC'ers - You can never train too much or too often, and even when you've trained as much as you can conceive of ever needing, it's time to train some more. This incident proves that even with expert training, innocents stand the chance of getting hurt by your deployed weapon even if/when you're 100% justified in pulling the trigger. Be careful out there folks.
Blues
