Bohemian
New member
DOD, changed their position on this...
http://www.gunreports.com/news/ammo...e-Ammo-Case-Destruction-Withdrawn_1192-1.html
Ammo Shortage ?
- Thread starter Debray
- Start date
DOD, changed their position on this...
http://www.gunreports.com/news/ammo...e-Ammo-Case-Destruction-Withdrawn_1192-1.html
Debray
New member
I'm going to shoot black powder to save ammo
I'm going to Cabela's today and stock up on black powder and start shooting my Rugar BP Old Army revolver and sight in my black powder hunting and target rifles.
I have been molding and shooting my own bullets since 1971 and want to try some of the new power belt bullets that don't need lube anyhow.
If they have 22 and 22 mag. available I can shoot my Mark ll and my Marlin rifle also for a while also.
This will give me a some good target practice and slow down the amount of 9mm I shoot thru my XDm.
I have a shooting range in the woods below my house and I usually walk down fully loaded and with two extra mags and it is amazing how fast 58 rounds disapear.
I'll let you know if Cabela's has 9mm, 45, and 40 cal. available yet in Wheeling when I get back.
I'm going to Cabela's today and stock up on black powder and start shooting my Rugar BP Old Army revolver and sight in my black powder hunting and target rifles.
I have been molding and shooting my own bullets since 1971 and want to try some of the new power belt bullets that don't need lube anyhow.
If they have 22 and 22 mag. available I can shoot my Mark ll and my Marlin rifle also for a while also.
This will give me a some good target practice and slow down the amount of 9mm I shoot thru my XDm.
I have a shooting range in the woods below my house and I usually walk down fully loaded and with two extra mags and it is amazing how fast 58 rounds disapear.
I'll let you know if Cabela's has 9mm, 45, and 40 cal. available yet in Wheeling when I get back.
Debray
New member
Not shipping Ammo
I went to Cabela's yesterday still no 9mm, 40 cal. or 45 cal.
There also isn't any 22 or 22 mag., I was able to get two 500 round Cabela/Wincester presentation boxes of 22 long rifle.
The only ammo they had a surplus of was the .17 HMR, the shelves were loaded.
I told one of the salesman at the pistol counter, I am going to start shooting more black powder.
He told me I had better get my supplies now they arn't shipping anything includeing black powder.
He said as long as the "Anointed One" is in the White House don't expect any changes.
I bought some different Power belt 45 cal bullets also FFG and FFFG Shockey's Gold, now I can do a little comparison slow black powder shooting.
For you black powder shooters I will let you know what shoots the best.
I went to Cabela's yesterday still no 9mm, 40 cal. or 45 cal.
There also isn't any 22 or 22 mag., I was able to get two 500 round Cabela/Wincester presentation boxes of 22 long rifle.
The only ammo they had a surplus of was the .17 HMR, the shelves were loaded.
I told one of the salesman at the pistol counter, I am going to start shooting more black powder.
He told me I had better get my supplies now they arn't shipping anything includeing black powder.
He said as long as the "Anointed One" is in the White House don't expect any changes.
I bought some different Power belt 45 cal bullets also FFG and FFFG Shockey's Gold, now I can do a little comparison slow black powder shooting.
For you black powder shooters I will let you know what shoots the best.
LS-208
GUNFRK
Ammo Shortage & Decline Q&A
I'm aware that some of you may already get this e-mail from Tim @ USCCA. I thought I would copy it to here so it might help answer some other folks questions about the scarce ammo issues.
April 22nd, 2009
"To put it simply: Understanding the Ammo Shortage..."
Dear Robert,
I have been getting a TON of questions from USCCA members and Armed American Report readers on the subject of the ammo shortage.
There are all sorts of theories out there, but the two resources that I'm about to share with you, I believe, are a couple of the most accurate explanations available.
Here we go...
Some More Ruminations
on the Ammo Shortage...
by Tamara K.
of booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com
Die Time: In comments yesterday, Ed Foster mentioned "die time". This is exactly why you can't get, for example, .380 right now. At most manufacturers, the machinery they use to load .380 (which uses different "dies" to load different calibers) is only used for that purpose for a small portion of the year; the rest of the time it's used to load more high volume stuff, like 9mm. They churn out .380 for a couple of months, say, at the end of the year, and it's enough to hold the market over 'til the next winter.
Rumor has it that this past year's demand for 9mm FMJ was so great that Winchester didn't bother tooling up for .380 and kept the presses pumping out 9x19 ball. Even if the other two companies didn't do likewise, what percentage of the .380 market do you think that Winchester represents? Federal and Remington certainly don't load enough to take up the slack, and that causes the supply to crash to nothing.
Case Lots: Believe it or not, the kind of people that read gun blogs, post on internet gun forums, go to the range every weekend, and name their gun "Vera", are a small minority of gun owners. For fifteen years I tried to convince Joe and Jane Public to buy ammo by the case. I failed miserably. No matter how much you explain the price savings when buying a thousand rounds at a lick, or the fact that ammo doesn't go bad, most people would look at you and say "I don't know, $100 seems like a lot of money, and what am I going to do with a thousand rounds of 9mm?"
The ammunition manufacturing and supply pipeline is simply not set up for the average consumer to walk into Wal-Mart and buy two cases of ammunition. If your average shooter normally bought 100rds/month to take to the range and decided to buy two cases instead, "just in case", he has just bought more ammunition at one lick than he would normally buy in two years. Think about that for a second, and then multiply it out over several million shooters suddenly buying way outside their normal pattern.
Production Capacity: The manufacturers are running full tilt. The only way they could make more ammunition is to build more plant, and they are not going to do that for several reasons. The first is that this bubble will contract sooner or later. Joe and Jane Sofaspud are going to realize that they really don't need 10,000 rounds of Winchester .45 in the basement, and that minivan payment isn't getting any smaller. They'll sell it to Annie Appleseed and Ivan Ipsc and demand will cool down.
The second reason they won't build more plant is financial. Remember that economy thing? Yeah, well it's still bad. Business loans aren't really easy to get right now, especially for businesses that are square in the middle of the Media-Congressional Complex's crosshairs. When the stroke of a pen could cut your sales by 50%, you are not what lenders call a "good risk".
Supply & Demand: Right now prices are high not because of transport costs or raw materials costs, which drove the price spike of '05(really an honest adjustment, as ammo prices had stayed almost artificially flat for the better part of a decade,) but because of simple supply and demand. If I put my widgets out for $1, and the first guy that walks in the store buys them all, I'm obviously not charging enough for my widgets.
As demand stays high and supply stays small, prices keep going up. They will go up until they become high enough to cool demand. As demand cools, supply will build back up. In order to move the new supply, prices will come back down somewhat until they reignite demand. This is Econ 101, folks, and it's as predictable as 32 ft/sec² or π*r².
......................................
The second resource, is another write up on the matter from a slightly different perspective- written by a Revolver Smith named Grant Cunningham.
I've shared some of his work with you in the past- it's always great stuff, and I encourage you to have a look at the rest of his site after you've given this a read.
It's called "Supply Chain Management 101: on the ammunition shortage". Visit HERE to read this article.
I hope you find these articles enlightening!
Take care and stay safe,
Tim Schmidt
USCCA - Owner / Founder
New Member Info
Member Renewal Info
P.S. - Get prepared while you still can.
FROM: Patrick Kilchermann, USCCA
co author, Beat the Ban.
Friends- I am not an alarmist. On the contrary- I am an iconoclast. My personal policy is to never over-react- period.
That is why I can safely say that NOW is the time to get prepared. Seriously though, let me explain...
1) The biggest stimulus bill to ever burden the American Tax payer was dropped into the Obama-River, and swept away into law before anyone could object.
I don't know about you, but I just have this weird feeling that a trillion-dollar bill would be a LITTLE harder to pass than another gun ban. And, if "Oh Bummer!" could pass this bill in as little time as he did... well, *gulp*.
2) Obama is exactly this much more antigun than Bill Clinton was: ->____________<-.
Spooky.
3) Supplies are running low. It's even harder now to find ammo, magazines, and rifles than it was a month ago when I stocked up.
4) The U.S. Dollar is weakening. Every time our federal government prints off another batch of $100 bills, the amount of ammunition that bill will buy decreases a little bit more. And, if Obama and his stimulus bill has the effect on our economy and the U.S. Dollar that I'm afraid it will... well, your ability to buy supplies might be hindered even further, for lack of tradable currency!
THESE are just few of the reasons why a few of us saw fit to create "Beat the Ban". We wanted to give a launch pad to those of you who want to prepare but aren't sure where to start, what to buy, or how much to buy.
You can get your own copy for just $17 using the link below.
I REALLY hope that all the supplies we are buying go to waste in our basements as we live out our days in peace, happiness, and freedom.
But- isn't it better to be safe than sorry?
http://deltamediallc.com/products/be...eattheban.html
WHAT YOU'LL GET:
As soon as you purchase "Beat the Ban", you'll get an email with a special download link. Using that link, you will be taken to a web-page where you can instantly download you PDF copy of 'Beat the Ban', as well as links for every chapter's audio file on .mp3.
Why Digital? The information in so incredibly time sensitive in this report that by the time we shipped something to you, it might already be too late. We wanted to really go the extra mile to ensure that you receive "Beat the Ban" quickly enough to put the information into practice. Not only that- but since it's a digital product, we can afford to get it to you for MUCH less than if we had to ship it!
I'm aware that some of you may already get this e-mail from Tim @ USCCA. I thought I would copy it to here so it might help answer some other folks questions about the scarce ammo issues.
April 22nd, 2009
"To put it simply: Understanding the Ammo Shortage..."
Dear Robert,
I have been getting a TON of questions from USCCA members and Armed American Report readers on the subject of the ammo shortage.
There are all sorts of theories out there, but the two resources that I'm about to share with you, I believe, are a couple of the most accurate explanations available.
Here we go...
Some More Ruminations
on the Ammo Shortage...
by Tamara K.
of booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com
Die Time: In comments yesterday, Ed Foster mentioned "die time". This is exactly why you can't get, for example, .380 right now. At most manufacturers, the machinery they use to load .380 (which uses different "dies" to load different calibers) is only used for that purpose for a small portion of the year; the rest of the time it's used to load more high volume stuff, like 9mm. They churn out .380 for a couple of months, say, at the end of the year, and it's enough to hold the market over 'til the next winter.
Rumor has it that this past year's demand for 9mm FMJ was so great that Winchester didn't bother tooling up for .380 and kept the presses pumping out 9x19 ball. Even if the other two companies didn't do likewise, what percentage of the .380 market do you think that Winchester represents? Federal and Remington certainly don't load enough to take up the slack, and that causes the supply to crash to nothing.
Case Lots: Believe it or not, the kind of people that read gun blogs, post on internet gun forums, go to the range every weekend, and name their gun "Vera", are a small minority of gun owners. For fifteen years I tried to convince Joe and Jane Public to buy ammo by the case. I failed miserably. No matter how much you explain the price savings when buying a thousand rounds at a lick, or the fact that ammo doesn't go bad, most people would look at you and say "I don't know, $100 seems like a lot of money, and what am I going to do with a thousand rounds of 9mm?"
The ammunition manufacturing and supply pipeline is simply not set up for the average consumer to walk into Wal-Mart and buy two cases of ammunition. If your average shooter normally bought 100rds/month to take to the range and decided to buy two cases instead, "just in case", he has just bought more ammunition at one lick than he would normally buy in two years. Think about that for a second, and then multiply it out over several million shooters suddenly buying way outside their normal pattern.
Production Capacity: The manufacturers are running full tilt. The only way they could make more ammunition is to build more plant, and they are not going to do that for several reasons. The first is that this bubble will contract sooner or later. Joe and Jane Sofaspud are going to realize that they really don't need 10,000 rounds of Winchester .45 in the basement, and that minivan payment isn't getting any smaller. They'll sell it to Annie Appleseed and Ivan Ipsc and demand will cool down.
The second reason they won't build more plant is financial. Remember that economy thing? Yeah, well it's still bad. Business loans aren't really easy to get right now, especially for businesses that are square in the middle of the Media-Congressional Complex's crosshairs. When the stroke of a pen could cut your sales by 50%, you are not what lenders call a "good risk".
Supply & Demand: Right now prices are high not because of transport costs or raw materials costs, which drove the price spike of '05(really an honest adjustment, as ammo prices had stayed almost artificially flat for the better part of a decade,) but because of simple supply and demand. If I put my widgets out for $1, and the first guy that walks in the store buys them all, I'm obviously not charging enough for my widgets.
As demand stays high and supply stays small, prices keep going up. They will go up until they become high enough to cool demand. As demand cools, supply will build back up. In order to move the new supply, prices will come back down somewhat until they reignite demand. This is Econ 101, folks, and it's as predictable as 32 ft/sec² or π*r².
......................................
The second resource, is another write up on the matter from a slightly different perspective- written by a Revolver Smith named Grant Cunningham.
I've shared some of his work with you in the past- it's always great stuff, and I encourage you to have a look at the rest of his site after you've given this a read.
It's called "Supply Chain Management 101: on the ammunition shortage". Visit HERE to read this article.
I hope you find these articles enlightening!
Take care and stay safe,
Tim Schmidt
USCCA - Owner / Founder
New Member Info
Member Renewal Info
P.S. - Get prepared while you still can.
FROM: Patrick Kilchermann, USCCA
co author, Beat the Ban.
Friends- I am not an alarmist. On the contrary- I am an iconoclast. My personal policy is to never over-react- period.
That is why I can safely say that NOW is the time to get prepared. Seriously though, let me explain...
1) The biggest stimulus bill to ever burden the American Tax payer was dropped into the Obama-River, and swept away into law before anyone could object.
I don't know about you, but I just have this weird feeling that a trillion-dollar bill would be a LITTLE harder to pass than another gun ban. And, if "Oh Bummer!" could pass this bill in as little time as he did... well, *gulp*.
2) Obama is exactly this much more antigun than Bill Clinton was: ->____________<-.
Spooky.
3) Supplies are running low. It's even harder now to find ammo, magazines, and rifles than it was a month ago when I stocked up.
4) The U.S. Dollar is weakening. Every time our federal government prints off another batch of $100 bills, the amount of ammunition that bill will buy decreases a little bit more. And, if Obama and his stimulus bill has the effect on our economy and the U.S. Dollar that I'm afraid it will... well, your ability to buy supplies might be hindered even further, for lack of tradable currency!
THESE are just few of the reasons why a few of us saw fit to create "Beat the Ban". We wanted to give a launch pad to those of you who want to prepare but aren't sure where to start, what to buy, or how much to buy.
You can get your own copy for just $17 using the link below.
I REALLY hope that all the supplies we are buying go to waste in our basements as we live out our days in peace, happiness, and freedom.
But- isn't it better to be safe than sorry?
http://deltamediallc.com/products/be...eattheban.html
WHAT YOU'LL GET:
As soon as you purchase "Beat the Ban", you'll get an email with a special download link. Using that link, you will be taken to a web-page where you can instantly download you PDF copy of 'Beat the Ban', as well as links for every chapter's audio file on .mp3.
Why Digital? The information in so incredibly time sensitive in this report that by the time we shipped something to you, it might already be too late. We wanted to really go the extra mile to ensure that you receive "Beat the Ban" quickly enough to put the information into practice. Not only that- but since it's a digital product, we can afford to get it to you for MUCH less than if we had to ship it!
Rick O'Shay
New member
Ammo is starting to show up in stores in Memphis, except .380 and .45 colt.
Scarecrow
New member
is this on a regular basis? or just got lucky?
utimmer43
New member
This is what I don't understand. The price at Walmart hasn't gone up atleast since the beginning of the year when I first started pricing ammo. Like anyone else, I don't like to pay anymore than I have to. But when all the shelves are empty, Walmart obviously isn't charging enough for their "widgets".
Bohemian
New member
In the June 2009 issue of American Hunter magazine, (part of my NRA membership) that just came in my snail mail box; there is an article titled "THE AMMO SHORTAGE IS REAL"...
Interestingly enough, the same issue also contains two "Armed Citizen" accounts of attempted robberies in the parking lots of "WALMART"...
Link Removed
Interestingly enough, the same issue also contains two "Armed Citizen" accounts of attempted robberies in the parking lots of "WALMART"...
Link Removed
thewatchfuleye
New member
I just thought I'd give the inside scoop from Wal-Mart... We receive ammo every day. The biggest problem is people come in and buy it all up as soon as it gets there. The stuff is normally sent in based on rate of sale. The stuff was out at the warehouse so long that the rate of sale got messed up. This means even if it comes back in if it just is left to automatically order what little arrived is divided up between the stores and that means everyone gets one or two boxes. Normally this would be more than fine, however someone comes in and buys the stuff as soon as it arrives. Shelf sits empty until it gets reordered which is often too late. There is nothing preventing a store more aware of how the system operates from manually ordering and stacking manual orders for everything as soon as it is back in stock because the people working there are aware that the rate of sale is off because of the shortage. Assuming you have a store in tune with the situation and how it messes up the supply chain, they'll probably be stocked fairly well. The store just letting the system reorder because they aren't up on their stuff will have empty shelves. The department managers aware of the ammo shortage, with the knowledge of the ordering should be able to build up a supply if they know their stuff, and it is where the knowledgable sales staff and customer oriented management will provide good service and they'll have the shelves stocked pretty well even in this case. That said we've had no trouble getting 40 S&Ws, 9mm, 30-06, 22 mag, 380, 44 mag, 270, 25 auto, 32 auto, despite most other stores in the area being out of it. Getting to the point where we have sustainable supply based on the 6 box limit. Even 00 buck which was in such short supply they didn't have any at a gun show I was just at is literally jammed full on the shelf. The only problem ones we've had have been 7.62x39, 357 and 223, can't seem to build up supply of those, get a few boxes in but thats about it.
Are you serious? Most people who work at Walmart do so because they cant hold any other type of position. It sounds like thewatchfuleye is a much needed exception
I know the Guy who runs the Gun section at our local Walmart wears galoshes everyday with his pants tucked in with belt and suspenders, long sleeve flannel shirt and a hat that says "Bubba" ............everyday.
utimmer43
New member
Hence the "maybe a stupid question" disclaimer.
thewatchfuleye
New member
I am just a regular associate, but the people in our department are up on the situation and know what is going on, and we are familiar with the ins and outs of the ordering system. The stuff can show up at the warehouse from the manufacturer on any day and more than once it has been on a day when there is no department manager on duty. Every day we hand scan all the ammo, usually more than once on a given day, if something comes in at the warehouse and no longer shows out, we order it immediately. Assuming the order is approved before the system starts replenishing the other stores (by the screwed up rate of sale which usually gives something of a window) then the store that placed the order gets the greater quantity the warheouse may get 100, we might order 100, we might get 50 but that is more than anyone else got. This is a combination of persistant reorderding and scanning every day and a bit of luck. Sometimes you'll get the order through in time sometimes the system starts dividing up what stores it is going to go to. You won't get everything in quantity every time, but if you persist upon ordering it repeatedly you'll hit enough of them that you start to build an inventory. This is all a matter of luck as far as region too, say one warehouse gets 100 boxes of 9mm another might not. The stores with the more knowledgable staff will be able to get some stuff in. I'm sure we're not the only store doing this either, I'm sure there are at least a few stores up on things enough to be doing so. Our Winchester white box stuff is actually starting to look fairly full, though it took the better part of three months to do it. Herein lies the problem, if your store takes more than a passing interest, they will get some stuff in. If its just a fleeting interest they might get a few things.
For a hypothetical example. If 100 boxes of 9mm came in to the warehouse though and there are 10 stores in the area served by the warehouse and no one orders any and lets the system do everything everyone would get 10 boxes. With the imposed 6 box limit it only really takes two customers to clear that quantity. If you catch it at the right time they might send you 30 boxes instead. Everyone else though would get maybe 2 or 3 boxes less until the warehouse runs out.
The reason they're limiting to 6 boxes is because they're trying to get the warehouses backstocked with a decent quantity. Based on the current sales I'd think they'd have to limit it to more like 3 boxes, as we have people regularly buy all the 380s as soon as they come in even if we can get 20 boxes (which is probably 5 times what the other stores in our area are getting).
This goes beyond just the department manager needing to be on top of things, the other associates in the department need to be on top of it too. Even our assitants care enough to have given us free reign to attempt huge quantity orders when the stuff shows in stock because they know the stuff will sell if we can get it. The DM is only there 5 days a week, the stuff needs to be scanned morning and night 7 days a week, ordered as soon as it shows in stock at the warehouse. Figuring that the store will get lucky 1/3 of the time. I happened to scan some stuff last saturday and got an order placed, we got nearly everything I ordered including dozens of boxes of 45s.
Three of the five of us working at our store are gun nuts so to speak, we've taken pride in having the most fully stocked ammo case in all the local Walmarts. We even have started pre ordering shotgun ammo for hunting season just in case we start seeing shotgun ammo shortages. This here is where the problem lies, we know what our customers want and are doing our best to serve them, some of the stores just don't know, or simply don't care. If your associates care at your Walmart they can and will try and get you what you want. At our store we pride ourselves in our knowledge and have done everything to work through it. We know that our customers have suffered the burden less than in some areas and will be back many times over to purchase from our great selection of ammo.
For a hypothetical example. If 100 boxes of 9mm came in to the warehouse though and there are 10 stores in the area served by the warehouse and no one orders any and lets the system do everything everyone would get 10 boxes. With the imposed 6 box limit it only really takes two customers to clear that quantity. If you catch it at the right time they might send you 30 boxes instead. Everyone else though would get maybe 2 or 3 boxes less until the warehouse runs out.
The reason they're limiting to 6 boxes is because they're trying to get the warehouses backstocked with a decent quantity. Based on the current sales I'd think they'd have to limit it to more like 3 boxes, as we have people regularly buy all the 380s as soon as they come in even if we can get 20 boxes (which is probably 5 times what the other stores in our area are getting).
This goes beyond just the department manager needing to be on top of things, the other associates in the department need to be on top of it too. Even our assitants care enough to have given us free reign to attempt huge quantity orders when the stuff shows in stock because they know the stuff will sell if we can get it. The DM is only there 5 days a week, the stuff needs to be scanned morning and night 7 days a week, ordered as soon as it shows in stock at the warehouse. Figuring that the store will get lucky 1/3 of the time. I happened to scan some stuff last saturday and got an order placed, we got nearly everything I ordered including dozens of boxes of 45s.
Three of the five of us working at our store are gun nuts so to speak, we've taken pride in having the most fully stocked ammo case in all the local Walmarts. We even have started pre ordering shotgun ammo for hunting season just in case we start seeing shotgun ammo shortages. This here is where the problem lies, we know what our customers want and are doing our best to serve them, some of the stores just don't know, or simply don't care. If your associates care at your Walmart they can and will try and get you what you want. At our store we pride ourselves in our knowledge and have done everything to work through it. We know that our customers have suffered the burden less than in some areas and will be back many times over to purchase from our great selection of ammo.
Yes there is a ammo shortage across the country. Last word we had was imorted ammo my not be able to get in country. Reloading supplies have been a problem for a while. We have some ammo coming in and will be available to ship on the 29th of this month. All of the ammo is Made in U.S.A. from BVAC in Montana.
thewatchfuleye
New member
I'd rather not disclose my location as we'd rather the other local stores not get on to what we know as they might cut into the supply. I just received the word, 70 boxes of 223 today. Not one local store has any.
RedThunder94
Full Metal
yeah i miss the good old days, stop by wally world pick up a box or two of the plinking stuff for a couple of the guns that need a workout and have a fun afternoon, :frown: been a boring few months.
Debray
New member
Got Ammo
A co worker called me Sunday afternoon and said he was at a Sporting good store in Columbus, Ohio, and they have skids of ammo.
He sounded like a kid in a candy shop. He said, "what do you want me to bring you home, I just got myself 1000 rounds of 45 cal."
I told him to pick me up 500 round of 9mm.
We have been wanting to go to a combat shoot and now we can.
Debray
A co worker called me Sunday afternoon and said he was at a Sporting good store in Columbus, Ohio, and they have skids of ammo.
He sounded like a kid in a candy shop. He said, "what do you want me to bring you home, I just got myself 1000 rounds of 45 cal."
I told him to pick me up 500 round of 9mm.
We have been wanting to go to a combat shoot and now we can.
Debray
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