America - no chance of ever uniting again, it is 100% over


ingrahmm

New member
The last time the American people coalesced to fight against government was the Civil War; the CSA. The cause, right or wrong, cannot be disputed to have been a demonstrable stand of 11 states against the USA. We need this dynamic again against a Marxist Manchurian Candidate-type despot, Obama, who has no plans of leaving office in 2016. Americans will never be able to stand against government again because (1) household debt- to-income ratio, i.e., drowning in debt due to cheap money and government-forced bank mortgage loans to minorities, otherwise unqualified to receive - Americans are slaves to banks and companies, can't leave the company or home for even a week to join anything (2) freedom-deception, i.e., Americans think "freedom" is free to be voracious consumers, free to glut at any fast food joint, free to escape reality through any of a hundred TV channels, and free to have 500 friends, all of them internet "virtual" friends. The 1860 household debt-to-income ratio was minuscule and most were not bound to a corporation - their interests were not "virtual" but real - they were politically and constitutionally savvy at an early age - freedom and liberty involved property-ownership and free enterprise, nearly regulation-free. Principal was more important than material things. They were real. We are "virtual." Obama and his aristocratic Marxist Party will prosper at the expense of a blind and substance-less culture, formerly known as America.
 

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Warbirds

New member
I don't see being able to agree with a group that associates themselves as fighting for the same things as the CSA. They fought for states rights, TO KEEP ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AS SLAVES. So you put Obama in the same side as Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, and yourself with the slave owners.

Can't you find a more noble issue to express your beliefs?

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gunnerbob

PEW Professional
I don't see being able to agree with a group that associates themselves as fighting for the same things as the CSA. They fought for states rights, TO KEEP ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AS SLAVES. So you put Obama in the same side as Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, and yourself with the slave owners.

Can't you find a more noble issue to express your beliefs?

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Sort of an aside here but, the only reason Abe freed the slaves was to preserve the Union... it was a stategic, military move... he personally couldn't really give a damn whether or not the CSA held slaves. There were other factors that are in the "States Rights" thing you mention, y'know... other than owning other People.
 

robjams

New member
Southern ports paid 75 percent of tariffs in 1859. Lincoln couldn't afford to let that money leave Washington, now could he? Makes me want to vomit every time I hear "the civil war was fought to end slavery". Give me a freaking break.
 

SR40c

Done told her once...
Personally, I wish people would quit implying that we need another Civil War when the circumstances today reflect the fact the we need another Revolutionary War.
 

K7lvo

New member
Personally, I wish people would quit implying that we need another Civil War when the circumstances today reflect the fact the we need another Revolutionary War.
I don't think that the Civil War would have been called the Ciivil War if the South had won. Maybe Revolutionary War II?
 

Warbirds

New member
Southern ports paid 75 percent of tariffs in 1859. Lincoln couldn't afford to let that money leave Washington, now could he? Makes me want to vomit every time I hear "the civil war was fought to end slavery". Give me a freaking break.

Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

I don't see any reference to your tariff, I did speed read it so I may have missed it. But I did find multiple references to slavery. The Mississippi and Texas declarations also refer to slavery or the owning of other human beings, other states refer to the federal government "taking property" which my assumption is also humans as property.

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp

So, the main cause when the states declared independence does seem to revolve around slavery. Hind sight is 20/20 but their own words are damming. And I see value in what was expressed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FLnhEHg0Fk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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ingrahmm

New member
No, I used the Civil War as the last national example of coalescence, i.e., unity on a mass scale against the [USA] established government. After all. it was a 'states' rights movement. One sentence related to a mass unification by the CSA - the only subject. I even went out of the way to clarify, the cause, right or wrong, depending upon each readers viewpoint - the rest had absolutely nothing to do with the Civil War. The subject points to two main reasons that we cannot possibly unite today, as unification was possible in 1860. (1) household debt- to-income ratio making the whole of society slaves to banks and their employers (2) freedom-deception, i.e., embracing the external and frivolous freedoms and missing the real elements of liberty and freedom. It's apparent to me that you're spouting to spout and probably didn't even read the entire brief - always suspicious of folks who feel the need to emotion-capitalize. I hope you feel better tomorrow.
I don't see being able to agree with a group that associates themselves as fighting for the same things as the CSA. They fought for states rights, TO KEEP ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AS SLAVES. So you put Obama in the same side as Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, and yourself with the slave owners.

Can't you find a more noble issue to express your beliefs?

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Johnny Dollar

New member
I don't see being able to agree with a group that associates themselves as fighting for the same things as the CSA. They fought for states rights, TO KEEP ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AS SLAVES. So you put Obama in the same side as Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, and yourself with the slave owners.

Can't you find a more noble issue to express your beliefs?

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I don't think the OP is supporting slavery I think he's saying that the civil war was the last time enough of the country agreed on one thing enough to take on the government over it.
 

ingrahmm

New member
Warbirds, your copy-pastes are worthless and so far removed from the subject content, it's laughable. Are you drunk?
Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

I don't see any reference to your tariff, I did speed read it so I may have missed it. But I did find multiple references to slavery. The Mississippi and Texas declarations also refer to slavery or the owning of other human beings, other states refer to the federal government "taking property" which my assumption is also humans as property.

Ordinances of Secession of the 13 Confederate States of America

So, the main cause when the states declared independence does seem to revolve around slavery. Hind sight is 20/20 but their own words are damming. And I see value in what was expressed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FLnhEHg0Fk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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ingrahmm

New member
Again, this piece is not about slavery nor even the Civil War - it's about the ability to unify or not - contrast using 1860 and the detachment from banks and employers which the South [CSA] enjoyed compared to the inability of today's citizens to unite, for or against a cause, in this case, an emerging tyranny the administration wages - inability attributed to dependence upon banks [debt] and employers - since few are self employed these days.
Sort of an aside here but, the only reason Abe freed the slaves was to preserve the Union... it was a stategic, military move... he personally couldn't really give a damn whether or not the CSA held slaves. There were other factors that are in the "States Rights" thing you mention, y'know... other than owning other People.
 

robjams

New member
I believe you're right. The likelihood of getting millions of government mooches to revolt against a government who pays them to sit at home is about as likely as it would have been to get hundreds of thousands of dirt poor southern white men to to risk leaving their kids fatherless, and their wives widowed, so that the rich plantation owner could keep his slaves. Ain't gonna happen!
 

Warbirds

New member
I don't think the OP is supporting slavery I think he's saying that the civil war was the last time enough of the country agreed on one thing enough to take on the government over it.

I don't think you can easily remove the taint of slavery from the civil war to be able to use it as an example. True, he used the statement saying he wasn't judging the reasons, wrong or right, and as I read that part the answer in my head was "wrong". When I read the comment from the other guy about taxation on the imports, mentally I filled in the blanks of "75% taxation of exports....... of cotton......... picked by slaves.........".

I think it is a tough sell to anyone that does not closely mirror your train of thought to use the civil war as a states rights issue so it is tough to use it in the context of it being applicable to today's issues. My thinking is much closer to what was expressed in Zonations YouTube video I linked to. I think references to the civil war are counterproductive to what a conservative should be.

I

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buckey01

New member
I agree that we probably will never be unified again as we once were. The divisions are simply too deep to find much agreement on anything. We can't even agree on the value of our founding documents or the brilliance of our founders. We can't agree on the benefits of capitalism and hard work. There have always been lazy people but a situation where fully half of our citizens feel that they are entitled to the support and money of others is something new. We have never been in a situation where the value of individual liberty and the Bill of Rights has been under such a serious attack. We have so little in common that there seems to be little value in remaining one nation.

Putin said a few years ago that the world would see the breakup of the U.S. I really hate to admit that he might be correct. At one time our melting pot status used to be our greatest strength along with common dreams and goals. Unfortunately, the multiculturalists have turned our differences into wedges to tear the country apart. This is a direct result of the terrible, malignant evil that is progressivism. They feel the destruction of our culture is necessary before it can be rebuilt into their Utopian dream.
 

Warbirds

New member
Warbirds, your copy-pastes are worthless and so far removed from the subject content, it's laughable. Are you drunk?

I don't have any hatred in my heart towards people of other races. And I reject your attempt to use the civil war as an example of the people standing up to the government. Trying to separate what people do and why they do it to try to prove your point just makes you a fool.

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wolf_fire

New member
Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

I don't see any reference to your tariff, I did speed read it so I may have missed it. But I did find multiple references to slavery. The Mississippi and Texas declarations also refer to slavery or the owning of other human beings, other states refer to the federal government "taking property" which my assumption is also humans as property.

Ordinances of Secession of the 13 Confederate States of America

So, the main cause when the states declared independence does seem to revolve around slavery. Hind sight is 20/20 but their own words are damming. And I see value in what was expressed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FLnhEHg0Fk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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Interesting you chose Yale for your information about the Civil War. Could you have picked a more Union institution?
 

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