Amended


Sheldon

New member
Well thanks to the Derailment of "Just say No" by those that are more interested in infighting, I have started a new thread on the issue, here is the latest update on the Mosque at the 911 site....

Lets see of we can all be Adults; KEEP IT CIVIL PEOPLE LEAVE YOUR INSULTS HOME THIS TIME!

"The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end"

So now they show their colors and blame the Christian which in their book is everyone not a Muslum...
Patriotic American,

The time for the so called "religious tolerance" double standard is OVER! And that's why I am sending you this most important email today on behalf of ReAL Action – The citizen activist arm of Renewing American Leadership. We must act now before it is too late.

It appears that the man leading this initiative blames us for the attack on the World Trade Center.
Even though there are more than 100 mosques in the New York City area, there are no churches and synagogues in the entire country of Saudi Arabia.

"The United States and the West must acknowledge
the harm they have done to Muslims before
terrorism can end."

The time to end this religious double standard is now.

The very name "Cordoba House" tells us the true meaning behind the effort to build a mosque overlooking the site where thousands of Americans lost their lives. The name refers to Cordoba, Spain where Muslim conquerors symbolized their victory over Christianity by transforming a church into one of the biggest mosques in the world. To learn more about this, listen to a more detailed explanation from my good friend Dr. Jim Garlow, the President of Renewing American Leadership.
I believe that peaceful Muslims can have a place of worship – but my mind cannot even comprehend the audacity of trying to build a $100 Million mosque at Ground Zero. America is experiencing an Islamist cultural-political offensive designed to undermine and destroy our civilization. Sadly, too many of our elites are the willing apologists for those who would destroy them if they could. It is not only a slap in the face to the families of the nearly 3,000 9/11 victims, but to every patriotic American, like you.

This is a genuine, insensitive injustice.

I cannot understand why city officials are bowing to the demands of the American Society for Muslim Advancement to open this 13-story shrine to Islam on . . . of all days---September 11, 2011!
 

Thanks for the post Sheldon. Islam is much more than just a religion. It is very much political. Their goal is to see the entire world under Sharia Law.
 
Just to be fair post both sides of an issue? How about a right wing article, a left wing article, and a moderate article to allow proper perspective?
 
Great post with more info. We need to stop this from happening. People should research the muslim leaders behind the building of this mosque and their background.
 
Going back to what I said in the Say NO thread:

"I look at it like this. When another country invades and takes over another countries base, ship, government office, capital, ect what do they do to declare victory...... They raise thier countries flag. So by building this on ground zero it's in affect raising the flag for Muslims bent on doing as much harm to America as they can. They will try and mask it as freedom of religion or a show of unity between the muslim faith and the western world. But lets call it for what it truely is...... Them raising a flag of victory."

Combined with what was said in this latest thread:

"The name refers to Cordoba, Spain where Muslim conquerors symbolized their victory over Christianity by transforming a church into one of the biggest mosques in the world."

People, this has nothing to do with freedom of religion, unity between east and west, or religious tolerance. It's about planting a flag of victory for what was done on 9/11.
 
Islam

Below are selected excerpts from Brigitte Gabriel's speech delivered at the Intelligence Summit in Washington DC

We gather here today to share information and knowledge. Intelligence is not merely cold hard data about numerical strength or armament or disposition of military forces. The most important element of intelligence has to be understanding the mindset and intention of the enemy. The West has been wallowing in a state of ignorance and denial for thirty years as Muslim extremist perpetrated evil against innocent victims in the name of Allah.

I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted, 'Allah Akbar!' My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word 'infidel.'

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13, dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York , or Britons in London . We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon .

As a victim of Islamic terror, I was amazed when I saw Americans waking up on September 12, 2001, and asking themselves 'Why do they hate us?' The psychoanalyst experts were coming up with all sort of excuses as to what did we do to offend the Muslim World. But if America and the West were paying attention to the Middle East they would not have had to ask the question. Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word: 'infidels.'

Under the banner of Islam 'la, ilaha illa Allah, muhammad rasoulu Allah,' (None is god except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah) they murdered Jewish children in Israel, massacred Christians in Lebanon, killed Copts in Egypt, Assyrians in Syria, Hindus in India, and expelled almost 900,000 Jews from Muslim lands. We Middle Eastern infidels paid the price then. Now infidels worldwide are paying the price for indifference and shortsightedness.

Tolerating evil is a crime. Appeasing murderers doesn't buy protection. It earns one disrespect and loathing in the enemy's eyes. Yet apathy is the weapon by which the West is committing suicide. Political correctness forms the shackles around our ankles, by which Islamist's are leading us to our demise.

America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You hear about Cahaba and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy.

News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam. An Islam that is awakening from centuries of slumber to re-ignite its wrath against the infidel and dominate the world. An Islam which has declared 'Intifada' on the West.

America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon. If you want to understand the nature of the enemy we face, visualize a tapestry of snakes. They slither and they hiss, and they would eat each other alive, but they will unite in a hideous mass to achieve their common goal of imposing Islam on the world.

This is the ugly face of the enemy we are fighting. We are fighting a powerful ideology that is capable of altering basic human instincts. An ideology that can turn a mother into a launching pad of death. A perfect example is a recently elected Hamas official in the Palestinian territories who raves in heavenly joy about sending her three sons to death and offering the ones who are still alive for the cause. It is an ideology that is capable of offering highly educated individuals such as doctors and lawyers far more joy in attaining death than any respect and stature life in society is ever capable of giving them.

The United States has been a prime target for radical Islamic hatred and terror. Every Friday, mosques in the Middle East ring with shrill prayers and monotonous chants calling death, destruction and damnation down on America and its people. The radical Islamist deeds have been as vile as their words. Since the Iran hostage crisis, more than three thousand Americans have died in a terror campaign almost unprecedented in its calculated cruelty along with thousands of other citizens worldwide. Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. This intentional, indiscriminate and wholesale murder of innocent American citizens is justified and glorified in the name of Islam.

America cannot effectively defend itself in this war unless and until the American people understand the nature of the enemy that we face. Even after 9/11 there are those who say that we must engage our terrorist enemies, that we must address their grievances.

Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children towards all religions. It is the equality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an apology for who or what we are.

Our mediocre attitude of not confronting Islamic forces of bigotry and hatred wherever they raised their ugly head in the last 30 years, has empowered and strengthened our enemy to launch a full scale attack on the very freedoms we cherish in their effort to impose their values and way of life on our civilization.

If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America 's learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.

Brigitte Gabriel is an expert on the Middle East conflict and lectures nationally and internationally on the subject. She's the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television and the founder ofAmericanCongressforTruth.com
 
More FUD from a Christian ultra-conservative infotainment site. REAL research proves this fact.

FACTS talk, FUD walks. :pleasantry:
The Muslims still talk about when the Christians invaded the holy land centuries ago. It really bothers them. Perhaps some dialog directed a peace might be a good idea?

I am sure there is at least one Muslim reading these postings. I wonder what he/she is saying about them conservative, Christian gun owners?

Oh yeah, a group of Saudi's planned, and hijacked some airplanes and killed over 3,000 Americans. IMO, we find the guilty, hunt them down, and settle matters.

The saudi's supply the world with oil. The government is great friends with the Bush, and Chaney families. Bill Clinton is wetting his beak over there also.

Other then that, IMO, we should not contribute to hate.
 
I am against any form of religious extremism. If you look at any religious faith, with very few exceptions, conquering and converting heathens or infidels was a basic foundation. It is one of the main reasons the Spanish Conquistadors and others traveled to many lands. Of course the riches didn't hurt either. It is not the average Muslim we need to worry about but the extremist that is causing the faith a bad reputation. If the Aztecs or Mayans were still around my bet is they would speak very negatively about Christianity. Again I say it is not the faith but the follower of the faith that corrupts into something it isn't.
 
I for one would love to be enlightened. Would you care to point out the FUD and replace it with the FACTS????
OK.

Brigitte Gabriel was born in the Marjayoun District in Lebanon to a Christian family. She frequently speaks at American conservative-leaning organizations such as The Heritage Foundation, Christians United for Israel, Evangelicals and Jewish groups, and says she gives voice to "what many in America are thinking but afraid to say out loud, for fear of being labeled a racist, bigot, Islamophobic, or intolerant." Stephen Lee, the publicist at St. Martins Press for Gabriel’s latest book, called her views "extreme".

Brigitte Gabriel said:
If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it...
This would be akin to asking the members of USA Carry to take action against the trolls or trollees (pick your perspective). They've demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt it just doesn't work that way. If it was so simple why has it not been done? Why has the middle east been war torn for centuries?

Anyone care to take a stab at it? I'm not going to spell it out for you. Again.

Just to reiterate, that whole piece pasted in there by Glockster is a textbook piece of FUD, targeted at those of you inclined to believe her idiocy.
 
OK.

Brigitte Gabriel was born in the Marjayoun District in Lebanon to a Christian family. She frequently speaks at American conservative-leaning organizations such as The Heritage Foundation, Christians United for Israel, Evangelicals and Jewish groups, and says she gives voice to "what many in America are thinking but afraid to say out loud, for fear of being labeled a racist, bigot, Islamophobic, or intolerant." Stephen Lee, the publicist at St. Martins Press for Gabriel’s latest book, called her views "extreme".

And by the same logic when you voice your opinion we who read it could construe it as or call it extreme. That is opinion not fact... Hummm, FUD...

This would be akin to asking the members of USA Carry to take action against the trolls or trollees (pick your perspective). They've demonstated beyond any shadow of a doubt it just doesn't work that way. If it was so simple why has it not been done? Why has the middle east been war torn for centuries?

We have as members of USACarry taken measures within the confines of the site rules to attempt to take action against trolls. I noted that Pewbs AKA Armedfetus was banned. That I'm sure, was a collective action by members of the site to deal with the issue. Hummm Fact...

Anyone care to take a stab at it? I'm not going to spell it out for you. Again.

Oh please do... We love when the FUD is dispelled and the facts (according to you) are provided to enlighten us... The true reason... The human condition. Individuals who think freely will never get along with individuals who think freely... We discuss, perhaps at some point we disagree then we argue and
at some point we stick our flag in the ground and stand by our opinion. Some times a compromise is reached between the feuding parties. Perhaps it lasts a long time sometimes not so long, but it is a compromise and both parties see it as such. The resentment lingers and any attempt to encroach further will bring the fight back to a head. I know, I know real grim... I'm an opinionated realist...:biggrin:

Just to reiterate, that whole piece pasted in there by Glockster is a textbook piece of FUD, targeted at those of you inclined to believe her idiocy.

No, it is nothing more than the opinion of an individual with whom you find fault and disagree with. So it's called FUD... Hummm... Opinion...

As Sheldon has asked, lets keep the topic at the forefront of the discussion.

Mosque or no mosque at Ground Zero in NY? Perhaps a simple poll to reduce the semantics and keep the asking for opinions to simply that?

Peace...
 
What in the world is the matter with people? I have posted some pretty long posts on here before and tried to keep them factual and about what was being discussed.

And then... I log on today. My word. Like a bunch of little kids with "My Dad/Mom can beat up YOUR Dad/Mom" envy. My question is: WHY?

Most of the 'Just say NO' thread wasn't even about the subject of the thread from what I read. It was just a bunch of people screaming back and forth at each other. Again: WHY?

I saw things like:

I am also not an athiest. I simply don't know if their is a god or not.
Atheist/atheism sort of means you do NOT believe in a God or Gods. You are probably Agnostic, believing in agnosticism which means you don't know one way or the other and really don't care.

Sort of like "I am atheist, there is NO God." vs "I am agnostic, I don't know if there is a God or not (and really don't care)."

Many of us older gents (I am 45) did not study typing in school. But in person, we can be very well spoken.
Well, first off, you aren't an 'older' gent. You have 15 or 20 years before you have to start saying that. LOL
AND, probably no one cares if you took typing in High School or not. It doesn't enter into the picture. You WILL be judged on how well you type and how well you do spelling and grammar. No excuses. This is a new age, even for young guys like me. No one really cares what schooling we had or didn't have, they judge us by what they 'see' on the screen/page in front of them. I took two years of typing a generation ahead of you, so it was probably available at your school and people on these forums will judge your typing (along with everything else). Just part of life these days.

You just wasted a solid amount of time on a post that I really didn't bother to read, AT ALL.
Why in the world would this person even be in the thread if they weren't reading the posts?

Post Script:Help me out, I always get their & there mixed up. What is the rule again???
Ah, it does mean different things, that is where the fun comes in. Don't forget "they're" also. Hummm, one sentence would be: "Their car should be over there but it appears they're late." And they all sound the same. LOL

You will never learn anything as you are already convinced you know the answer.
I remember 20-25 years ago when I would print up posters there was one I hung in my shop about that very thing. Something like:

Teenagers! NOW is the time. Quick, leave home while you still know it ALL.

I just copied some of that off the last page, not caring who it was posted by. Although, I did see something that made me think. Someone posted something like "This is just a gun forum, who cares if the spelling or grammar is correct?"

If I stop to think about that, I would think "Isn't what I am posting worth doing a spell and grammar check on? Maybe reading my post twice to see if it looks okay?"

If it ISN'T, then I have to ask myself "WHY am I posting it then?"

Do we REALLY think of what we are doing? Do we REALLY tell ourselves "This IS so IMPORTANT that I HAVE to post it, whether I do a spell or grammar check on it or not."

I can't ever remember me posting info that was so important that I couldn't take the time to do a spell/grammar check on it, maybe read it twice.

That is a question I ask myself before every post I make. I always try to make sure things are spelled correctly because I know I don't type real well.

The question to be asked is:"Do I have enough pride and respect for MYSELF to run a quick spell/grammar check while I read through this a second time before I post it."

Did I see someone state "But I speak well." Yes, that is true.

BUT... you ARE speaking with your keyboard NOW, in front of maybe THOUSANDS of people... with your keyboard. It is good to speak well with it also. Maybe more so, because those people can go back and LOOK at "how" you "spoke" in your post.

These are just some of what I have seen.

Oops. From looking at that thread, members on here have NOT been acting very adult.

Would YOU want to have someone you are trying to make an impression on for example for a job bid or an advancement to read THAT thread and have them ask YOU "What is this all about? WHO are those people?"

Would you be PROUD to tell that person (Boss or whomever) in a LOUD voice; "Oh, yeah, that is ummmm, me and my ummmmm, FRIENDS discussing those Muslims. We sure showed those SOB's."

Ummm, probably NOT, right?

We ARE on 'display' in these forums 24/7 people, out there in the electronic world for everyone to see how YOU display yourself to others through your posts.

These are just some of my thoughts, it has been a while since I have been on here.
Please, no one take what I have posted personal. I never even looked to see what names were with the comments. They were just used as examples.

Enjoy... I DO, except sometimes when it looks like a bunch of smart-ass teenagers screaming and hollering at each other.

Ken Chevy

073010 1401
 
Just put half cocked and lock on ignore and do just that. You can not reason with him so don't try.
 
Perhaps a simple poll...
That would only prove the foregone conclusion that the majority of people who participate in this type thread here are religious bigots.

And I suppose, preempt the similarly forgone conclusion that presented with facts and logic, the religious zealot crowd wishing to advance these infalmmatory hate-filled diatribes, are exposed for what they are.
 

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