Airport body scanners violate Islamic law, Muslims say

dvnfly said:
Let me say that I don't think that the airport security is doing an illegal search of your person. Up until a few years ago they were civilian security guards trying to protect us from the terrist. The only reason they were switched to gov employees is to force better training and personnal who, A. aren't criminials themselves and B. could be payed better so they attract more qualified people ( although I don't see the qualification process being to difficult).
Now if you were walking around in the non secure area and they walked up to you and said spread um they would be violating the 4th. I just hope those who dissagree aren't the same ones who say they use our legal system against us when we put them throught civil court(totally disagree with)
Now I do like the court idea, I'm exempt from jury duty for a few more years but I will be using that one if its a inconvenient for me the time they selected.
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You lost your Constitutional rights when Bush signed the Patriot Act. I was born and raised in the United States. I'm a WASP. I don't fit any idea of a terrorist. So why should I take off my shoes and my belt, empty my pockets, let them go through my carry-on baggage, confiscate my bottle of shampoo or toothpaste, wand me and now make me go through a full-body scanner? I'll tell you why - because no one has the balls to profile these murderers. The TSA wants to frisk someone? Maybe,

IF - they're:
  • On a no-fly or other security risk list;
  • Look suspicious (figgity, nervous, sweating, etc.);
  • Have no baggage;
  • Have a one-way ticket, paid with cash;
THEN - pull them to one side, and go over them with a fine-tooth comb.
ELSE - keep your freakin' hands off and leave me alone. I'm sick of these Nazis in our airports, and only when they're gone will I consider flying commercial again.
 
Simple soloution. Anyone of any religion refuses to go through the scanner for religous reasons can turn around and find a boat headed to the continent in which they want to fly too. should they be traveling within the borders of this country they need to drive themselves there. Not willing to go through security checks, then you loose you privledges of mass transit. End of racial discrimination
 
stumpjumper101 said:
Simple soloution. Anyone of any religion refuses to go through the scanner for religous reasons can turn around and find a boat headed to the continent in which they want to fly too. should they be traveling within the borders of this country they need to drive themselves there. Not willing to go through security checks, then you loose you privledges of mass transit. End of racial discrimination
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Works for me - I refuse to go through any more security checks, and if that means I can't fly, so be it. But you won't catch me setting fire to my Jockeys in seat 39A on Christmas Day, either. I can't fly due to loss of my Constitutional rights, and a raghead with C-4 in his crotch can fly from Africa to Detroit with nary a peep.

There's something wrong with this picture, folks. Really, really wrong!
 
I don't fly either. I am like Mr T and John Madden rolled into one. I have made it 60 years without having to fly and I do not intend to start now.:biggrin:
 
If a radical Muslim has a plan to do something deviant on a plane, bottom line is, he will not care about an x-ray scan, he will comply and go through it if he thinks he can get his stuff through it.
 
This is somewhat difficult to respond to. I do not have the need/opportunity to fly that often. However, when I do, I usually enjoy flying. It is a rare enough experience that I still find it pretty neat, and convenient.

After taking some time to think about it, I don't mind taking the time for security to check my crap. If I need to take my firearms with me, I read the rules, and follow them (usually this means packing them in locked checked luggage). If this deters or at least helps keep BG's from doing crazy sh!t on the flight then good.

Also, I kinda think that its probably a good idea not to allow firearms on your person while flying. I consider myself well trained, and I believe I can place well aimed shots on target. But,it only takes one mistake then there is a hole in the side of the plane at 30,000 feet. Now in the same instance if any of the general public can get on the plane, with a firearm, and NO training then the chances of mistakes increase dramastically. I dont know about real life, but in the movies a hole in an airplane is usually a bad thing.:blink:

Perhaps a good solution to the problem might be this:
If you want to carry a weapon (not projectile based, that could damage the integrity of the aircraft) on board an airplane then you must meet certain criteria.
You must have an extensive background check, to proove you are not a threat.
You must have had (and can proove to have had) propper training in the handling of the weapon, weapon retention.
It wouldnt hurt to also have training in psychology (negotiation/hostage rescue skills)
Maybe some first aid training.
Then when you pass all the criteria you get a cool little card you can show security and then tada, now we have volunteers that have been trained, and can help prevent any future issues with terrorists.

Of course I dont think that the major issue of security problems is from flights originating in the United States. Its the flights from other countries comming to ours. Where the originating countries dont care about security at all.

Now getting back to the OP, if it is against their religion to go through security (of course I would like to see where it is written in the Koran, or whatever other book they are using, that believers in xxx faith may not pass through the futuristic xray machines that detect contraband. Please post that page and paragraph number, for reference.), then I must enforce my religious beliefs that I have the right to keep and bare arms (Right as set forth in the US constitution, see 2nd Admendment).
 
Onlinedad said:
This is somewhat difficult to respond to. I do not have the need/opportunity to fly that often. However, when I do, I usually enjoy flying. It is a rare enough experience that I still find it pretty neat, and convenient.

After taking some time to think about it, I don't mind taking the time for security to check my crap. If I need to take my firearms with me, I read the rules, and follow them (usually this means packing them in locked checked luggage). If this deters or at least helps keep BG's from doing crazy sh!t on the flight then good.

Also, I kinda think that its probably a good idea not to allow firearms on your person while flying. I consider myself well trained, and I believe I can place well aimed shots on target. But,it only takes one mistake then there is a hole in the side of the plane at 30,000 feet. Now in the same instance if any of the general public can get on the plane, with a firearm, and NO training then the chances of mistakes increase dramastically. I dont know about real life, but in the movies a hole in an airplane is usually a bad thing.:blink:

Perhaps a good solution to the problem might be this:
If you want to carry a weapon (not projectile based, that could damage the integrity of the aircraft) on board an airplane then you must meet certain criteria.
You must have an extensive background check, to proove you are not a threat.
You must have had (and can proove to have had) propper training in the handling of the weapon, weapon retention.
It wouldnt hurt to also have training in psychology (negotiation/hostage rescue skills)
Maybe some first aid training.
Then when you pass all the criteria you get a cool little card you can show security and then tada, now we have volunteers that have been trained, and can help prevent any future issues with terrorists.

Of course I dont think that the major issue of security problems is from flights originating in the United States. Its the flights from other countries comming to ours. Where the originating countries dont care about security at all.

Now getting back to the OP, if it is against their religion to go through security (of course I would like to see where it is written in the Koran, or whatever other book they are using, that believers in xxx faith may not pass through the futuristic xray machines that detect contraband. Please post that page and paragraph number, for reference.), then I must enforce my religious beliefs that I have the right to keep and bare arms (Right as set forth in the US constitution, see 2nd Admendment).
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Good post! I fly all the time for business. Sucurity is a hassle but it is part of the deal these days and once the Gov. gets involvelved
 
They ought to make them fly naked. And then be sure to check all cavities, preferably with a broom stick.
 
Onlinedad said:
After taking some time to think about it, I don't mind taking the time for security to check my crap. If I need to take my firearms with me, I read the rules, and follow them (usually this means packing them in locked checked luggage). If this deters or at least helps keep BG's from doing crazy sh!t on the flight then good.

Also, I kinda think that its probably a good idea not to allow firearms on your person while flying. I consider myself well trained, and I believe I can place well aimed shots on target. But,it only takes one mistake then there is a hole in the side of the plane at 30,000 feet. Now in the same instance if any of the general public can get on the plane, with a firearm, and NO training then the chances of mistakes increase dramastically. I dont know about real life, but in the movies a hole in an airplane is usually a bad thing.:blink:

Perhaps a good solution to the problem might be this:
If you want to carry a weapon (not projectile based, that could damage the integrity of the aircraft) on board an airplane then you must meet certain criteria.
You must have an extensive background check, to proove you are not a threat.
You must have had (and can proove to have had) propper training in the handling of the weapon, weapon retention.
Click to expand...
Where did it ever enter the thread that we want to be able to carry on board an airline? Geez! I don't have any problems with not being to carry concealed on a plane. I don't even want to take a course that would give me that right. I can handle packing my piece in a locked box in my checked baggage. I might want to carry my Gerber multi-tool onboard, but that's about it. And how does stopping you from carrying onboard prevent a BG from blowing up the plane using Semtex as a jockstrap?

Get this right - I have a problem with being searched like a criminal before getting on a plane, period. I have a problem with having to empty my pockets, take off my belt and buckle, park all of my belongings, including my freakin' SHOES, in a box that goes through a scanner. I have a problem with TSA goons going through my carry-on, telling me that my bottle of shampoo is an oz. over the limit, confiscating my nail clippers, and making me turn on my laptop to prove it actually works. I have a problem with being told to stand with my arms outstretched while some moron wands me and decides that I also have to remove my wedding band because it might be setting off the alarm.

Now, if I was sweating bullets, chewing my nails to the quick, pacing like a lab rat in a cage...if I looked like a dark-skinned Middle Eastern guy...if I paid cash for my one-way ticket and had no baggage...if my flight had originated in Syria...THEN maybe TSA would like to take a closer look at me.

Screw the airlines and screw the TSA...and screw the federal government for using 9/11 to take away our Constitutional rights with the Patriot Act.
 
The great thing about flying with my handgun in my checked bag is that it is always the first one down the carousel and my bags have never been "lost".

On that subject just where do "lost" bags go? Do they fall down in some dark passageways in the baggage handling machine? Do they go to the same place that mismatched socks go? Does the airline sometimes find them later and get them back to their rightful owner? Or is "lost luggage" just a nice euphemism for stolen luggage?
 
Piece Corps said:
Where did it ever enter the thread that we want to be able to carry on board an airline? Geez! I don't have any problems with not being to carry concealed on a plane. I don't even want to take a course that would give me that right. I can handle packing my piece in a locked box in my checked baggage. I might want to carry my Gerber multi-tool onboard, but that's about it. And how does stopping you from carrying onboard prevent a BG from blowing up the plane using Semtex as a jockstrap?

Get this right - I have a problem with being searched like a criminal before getting on a plane, period. I have a problem with having to empty my pockets, take off my belt and buckle, park all of my belongings, including my freakin' SHOES, in a box that goes through a scanner. I have a problem with TSA goons going through my carry-on, telling me that my bottle of shampoo is an oz. over the limit, confiscating my nail clippers, and making me turn on my laptop to prove it actually works. I have a problem with being told to stand with my arms outstretched while some moron wands me and decides that I also have to remove my wedding band because it might be setting off the alarm.

Now, if I was sweating bullets, chewing my nails to the quick, pacing like a lab rat in a cage...if I looked like a dark-skinned Middle Eastern guy...if I paid cash for my one-way ticket and had no baggage...if my flight had originated in Syria...THEN maybe TSA would like to take a closer look at me.

Screw the airlines and screw the TSA...and screw the federal government for using 9/11 to take away our Constitutional rights with the Patriot Act.
Click to expand...

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you dont mind putting your piece in checked luggage, and not being able to carry concealed on board a plane. But, you dont like being checked at the gate to ensure that you and your fellow passengers are not tying to sneak a weapon on board.

Might be time for a realility check. Not everyone is as honest as you or I, or as we percieve ourself to be. We have to suffer through these checks because there have been less than honest people that have smuggled illegal weapons on board planes, and in a few cases those trips turned out bad. And because as a majority or nation has turned into a bunch of pussies (generally speaking). The terrorists were able to take over two different planes, on 9/11, using box cutters. Maybe if there were a few more people in our once great land that werent so worried about PC, and getting a little scratch from a blade, the terrorists would have never made it to the cockpit.

My idea of being able to take classes and background checks to be able to carry a weapon on board an aircraft was just an idea on how to make the situation better. Once you have taken and passed the checks then you get some form of identification that you can show to the TSA people at the gate then you can pass through freely without being searched (because you can carry a weapon), and let me reiterate that the weapon you carry would have to be a nonprojectile type that would not effect the integrity of the hull of the aircraft (so you dont inadvertantly blast a hole in the side causing bad stuff to happen). I believe that just like carrying a concealed firearm on the streets, that by having some form of weapon while flying will help give you the upper hand against a would be terrorist trying to hijack the plane. Also, if the terrorists knew that there were people on board with weapons it would also be a psychological deterant.

Should I also bring up how effective gun free zones are, like schools? No weapons allowed there either, and that seems to be working fine :rolleyes: IF we can train people who volunteer not to stand idle while some guy tries to take over a plane with a razorblade, then why not? Wouldn't you rather be surrounded by able bodied individuals ready to react to a threat, than a bunch of scared people unwilling to make a move?
 
I don't really care what they like or object to. I would just like a religous scholar to point out exactly where in the Quran the words 'body scan" appear.
 
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