Air travel.


lilguy

New member
I have been carrying since implemented in Illinois. I have licenses to cover where I travel for vacation. We have not flown as a family since 911 because of my wife fears. We have driven to our vacation spot In Florida since then. We drove this time in a rental and now my wife maybe wants to fly back. The only fly in the ointment is my Ruger 380. I have not flown with a firearm since 1974, long before you had to jump through hoops to bring one on board.
Please advise what the procedure is for bringing a handgun on board in baggage now. Can it cause a major issue at check in. Obviously it can't be loaded, what about the loose ammo. Thanks all.
 

corneileous

Member
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I would think the best bet would be to just mail it back. I would think airport security would have kittens if they saw a gun even in a checked bag.


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corneileous

Member
I know Gun Vault advertises their locking metal gun boxes are FAA approved.

Not tying to argue and although this is not the same ballpark, rather the same concept but I once put a luggage lock on my bag that was supposedly TSA approved and when I got it from luggage claim the lock was gone. Opened the bag up and they had put a note in there claiming the lock was not approved and had to be cut. Whether or not the lock was approved or the TSA employee just decided to lazy, we'll never know. Yes, I know, im just talking about a two dollar padlock but the moral of the story is just because a manufacturer says their product is FAA approved, it don't make it so. The TSA will approve whatever they want. I don't think I'd wanna take that chance.


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bofh

Banned
There is a dedicated Web page by the TSA regarding traveling with firearms, called Link Removed. May be you should search for your answer there?

Each airline has its own rules posted on the Web, such as Link Removed. May be you should read your airline's rules?

The NRA-ILA has a number of articles on this topic too, such as Airline Transportation of Firearms. May be you should read those.

There is an entire subforum in this forum, titled Traveling With Handguns. May be you should search it for firsthand reports from members about air travel with firearms?

On the other hand, you can ask random strangers on the Internet and get utterly false information. Good luck.

Understand the complexities involved and protect yourself from unintentional consequences. Understand that you can not take possession of a handgun in a state that requires a license for possession, such as NY. This means, if you have a connection at JFK, for example, and miss your flight and are forced to stay overnight, you can not pick up your checked luggage with the firearm. You will get arrested on the next morning while trying to check in your firearm. You will be charged with a felony and spend 3.5 years (mandatory minimum) in jail. Avoid traveling through states with such gun laws.

PS: This has been the first OP worth commenting on in this forum since my temporary ban was lifted a week ago. This forum still sucks.
 

bofh

Banned
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I would think the best bet would be to just mail it back. I would think airport security would have kittens if they saw a gun even in a checked bag.

May be you should only comment on topics you have actually experience with and not make stuff up as you go. Here is a hint, "mailing" (the quotes are here on purpose) your firearm across states is significantly more complex than checking it in at the airline counter. The particular topic of shipping a firearm to yourself has been discussed in this forum ad nauseam.

Also, in addition to those wanting to carry their firearms while at a remote destination, hunters regularly check in their firearms. Firearms check-ins are a common procedure at most airports. I have yet to encounter any problems.
 

corneileous

Member
May be you should only comment on topics you have actually experience with and not make stuff up as you go.
Maybe you should just refrain from quoting posts if you're gonna split hairs about what someone says that you don't approve of. How bout that? You don't like what I say, leave it alone.





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bofh

Banned
Not tying to argue and although this is not the same ballpark, rather the same concept but I once put a luggage lock on my bag that was supposedly TSA approved and when I got it from luggage claim the lock was gone. Opened the bag up and they had put a note in there claiming the lock was not approved and had to be cut. Whether or not the lock was approved or the TSA employee just decided to lazy, we'll never know. Yes, I know, im just talking about a two dollar padlock but the moral of the story is just because a manufacturer says their product is FAA approved, it don't make it so. The TSA will approve whatever they want. I don't think I'd wanna take that chance.

As I said in my prior post, don't comment on stuff you don't understand. May be you should read up on the TSA regulations do understand what happened to you?

Here is the deal. TSA-compliant locks for luggage are required to be opened if needed by the TSA. If the TSA employee inspecting your luggage can't open it with his master key in a few seconds, he/she will be using the bolt cutter. I don't see much value in TSA-compliant locks, other than to prevent accidental opening of luggage.

For firearms, the TSA is not allowed to open the box containing the firearm. No-one is, other than you. You are not allowed to give the key or combination to a TSA employee. A box with a TSA-compliant lock, i.e., one that can be opened by the TSA with a master key, is not permitted for checking in a firearm. Instead, when a manufacturer claims that their box meets the TSA guidelines for firearms transport, they mean that it provides enough resistance against someone trying to open the box without the key.

You see, a TSA-compliant lock for luggage is something completely different than a TSA-compliant box for firearms.
 

corneileous

Member
Did not mean to set this conflict off. Thanks for all the input, bye.

You didn't, atleast in my opinion. Some people just like to have an attitude and like to come off on the wrong approch expecting people to have 110% of credibility and validity to being allowed to post. If that gun vault works and doesn't cause you problems, by all means, use it. It's relatively cheap.


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bofh

Banned
Maybe you should just refrain from quoting posts if you're gonna split hairs about what someone says that you don't approve of. How bout that? You don't like what I say, leave it alone.

This isn't about splitting hairs. Your post contained outright false information, which is why I replied to it and quoted it. If you can't handle criticism, may be you shouldn't be posting nonsense.

Here is a hint, you can't mail a firearm to yourself, as in mailing with the USPS. Shipping a firearm to yourself across state lines with a commercial carrier always involves at least one FFL, transfer fees and a background check. Note that you need to be a resident of the state you are shipping the handgun to.

Gun laws are designed to trip up otherwise law abiding citizens and to charge them with crimes. If you do not know the laws, then do not give advice to others on what you think the laws are. You just help sending unsuspecting gun owners to jail with your own ignorance.
 

corneileous

Member
As I said in my prior post, don't comment on stuff you don't understand.
And as I said in my prior post, how bout not tellin' people what to do? Kudos to you for having information for the OP but don't belittle others in the process.

May be you should read up on the TSA regulations do understand what happened to you?

Here is the deal. TSA-compliant locks for luggage are required to be opened if needed by the TSA. If the TSA employee inspecting your luggage can't open it with his master key in a few seconds, he/she will be using the bolt cutter. I don't see much value in TSA-compliant locks, other than to prevent accidental opening of luggage.
I get it, he/she was either lazy or didn't wanna fiddle with it. In case it wasn't implied, I could have cared less about losing a couple dollar padlock. I think I even said that...lol. And yes, that was the only reason I put that lock on there was just to prevent accidental opening and losin all my crap.

It was just all matter of principle that I might as well not even put a lock on there or just put any old lock on there just to have it cut off.

For firearms, the TSA is not allowed to open the box containing the firearm. No-one is, other than you. You are not allowed to give the key or combination to a TSA employee. A box with a TSA-compliant lock, i.e., one that can be opened by the TSA with a master key, is not permitted for checking in a firearm. Instead, when a manufacturer claims that their box meets the TSA guidelines for firearms transport, they mean that it provides enough resistance against someone trying to open the box without the key.
I didn't know this. I figured everything that goes on an airplane post 9/11 was subject to inspection.

You see, a TSA-compliant lock for luggage is something completely different than a TSA-compliant box for firearms.

I know it is. I even said that...lol. My only point was just that something a lock box manufacturer says doesn't make it so. Manufacturers of stuff like this don't make the rules for the TSA to follow.

I guess firearms are treated differently.


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bofh

Banned
Did not mean to set this conflict off. Thanks for all the input, bye.

Just read the entire thread and learn from the discussion as much as you can. This is the internet. There will always be a difference in opinion. There will also always be people posting nonsense as they post their opinion as facts without knowing the facts. Follow the links I have posted. These links provide facts based on credible sources.
 

corneileous

Member
This isn't about splitting hairs. Your post contained outright false information, which is why I replied to it and quoted it. If you can't handle criticism, may be you shouldn't be posting nonsense.

So what if it did. You make it sound like I posted like I felt I knew exactly what I was talking about!...lol. Did my words saying "I dunno and that I may be wrong" mislead you? If I was wrong, I was wrong. No big deal. I handle criticism just fine, I just don't tolerate being told I have to clear something up with someone before I am allowed to post. Big difference.

Here is a hint, you can't mail a firearm to yourself, as in mailing with the USPS. Shipping a firearm to yourself across state lines with a commercial carrier always involves at least one FFL, transfer fees and a background check. Note that you need to be a resident of the state you are shipping the handgun to.

Gun laws are designed to trip up otherwise law abiding citizens and to charge them with crimes. If you do not know the laws, then do not give advice to others on what you think the laws are. You just help sending unsuspecting gun owners to jail with your own ignorance.
Who says one would have to mail a firearm to themselves the way a gun dealer would if you bought a gun in another state? Unless the post office opens up people's packages, how would anyone know? Does the post office use X-ray on packages? I know they do on airplanes.



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bofh

Banned
And as I said in my prior post, how bout not tellin' people what to do? Kudos to you for having information for the OP but don't belittle others in the process.

I belittle others only if they post incorrect information that is based on their personal opinion and can be easily refuted with proper sources and experience.

I get it, he/she was either lazy or didn't wanna fiddle with it. In case it wasn't implied, I could have cared less about losing a couple dollar padlock. I think I even said that...lol. And yes, that was the only reason I put that lock on there was just to prevent accidental opening and losin all my crap.

It was just all matter of principle that I might as well not even put a lock on there or just put any old lock on there just to have it cut off.

On most of my luggage, I resorted to using short wires, sticking them through the lock holes and twisting their ends, to prevent accidental opening. If a wire gets lost, because a TSA employee opened the luggage but did not put the wire back on, I have several replacement wires in my luggage.

I didn't know this. I figured everything that goes on an airplane post 9/11 was subject to inspection.

As I said, if you don't know the laws, just don't assume you do. A firearm gets inspected upon check in. No-one is allowed to open the box, other than you. That's why there is a tag (see below), which goes on the outside of the box when the box is inside your luggage and inside the box when it is not.

I always tie the steel cable of the GunVault NanoVault to the inside of a bag that I check in. This means that the GunVault NanoVault is tied with the steel cable to the bag and the tag is on the outside of the box.

I know it is. I even said that...lol. My only point was just that something a lock box manufacturer says doesn't make it so. Manufacturers of stuff like this don't make the rules for the TSA to follow.

I guess firearms are treated differently.

You did not clearly state that a TSA-compliant lock for luggage is something completely different than a TSA-compliant box for firearms, which is why I had to make this statement to make sure the OP gets it. You clearly were also not aware of the TSA firearm handling rules, which leads me to believe that you never traveled with a checked in firearm.

Your posts should be based facts from your experience and not based on your opinion of what you think the facts are. Unfortunately, many gun forums are filled with people that have little experience but post tons of opinions.

The Delta firearms tag from TTAG | Flying With Your Guns Revisited:

Link Removed
 

lilguy

New member
Just for clarity, do I start by calling the airline we want to fly to get their procedure? When I go to check in does the airline employee then bring in the TSA once I declare I have a locked up and unloaded hand gun?
 

bofh

Banned
So what if it did. You make it sound like I posted like I felt I knew exactly what I was talking about!...lol. Did my words saying "I dunno and that I may be wrong" mislead you? If I was wrong, I was wrong. No big deal. I handle criticism just fine, I just don't tolerate being told I have to clear something up with someone before I am allowed to post. Big difference.

Who says one would have to mail a firearm to themselves the way a gun dealer would if you bought a gun in another state? Unless the post office opens up people's packages, how would anyone know? Does the post office use X-ray on packages? I know they do on airplanes.

Since you don't tolerate being told, you are clearly lost. Note that it is against the forum rules to encourage illegal activity. Mailing a handgun as a nonlicensee with the USPS is a federal felony. Shipping a handgun with a contract carrier without declaring it is a federal felony as well.

From ATF | May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? (note that a common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun):

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]

From ATF | May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? (note that the firearm needs to be declared when shipping with a common or contract carrier):

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

From UPS | Shipping Firearms or Ammunition (note the lack of "from an individual to an individual"):

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

From FedEx | FXF 100 Rules Tariff (note the lack of "from an individual to an individual"):

2. Firearms

Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

Tell me again how "mailing" a handgun to yourself across state lines is supposed to be easier than flying with it as checked luggage. How about stop posting nonsense and at least read up on stuff before posting. As I said before, interstate shipping of firearms in general and of handguns in specific to yourself is complex and has been discussed ad nauseam in this forum. If you want to know the details, just look at the Traveling With Handguns subforum.
 

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