after the United States?


jg1967

New member
My favorite author Robert E. Heinlein wrote a few things on that subject. He had a feeling both Democracy and the US would eventually falter. His main points were (very roughly) like this (with some additions of myself mixed in):

- Democracy has deteriorated to a game show, more about smiling and kissing babies than message. You need enormous wealth to get in. On the top, the people that run the show have nothing at all in common with ordinary working people of the middle class.
- Unpopular but necessary steps can never be taken because somebody worried about getting re-elected simply can not afford to
- A country will fall apart when people start feeling more like "Floridians", "Hispanics" or you name any other faction that Americans first and start making decisions based on this.

Specifically the latter can easily be observed ... am I too worried or is there something to it?
 

tuts40

New member
The vast Roman empire came to crumbling ruins due to the socialism of the day. People flocked to cities for the handouts and not enough agriculture/productivity existed to support the masses, along with a tax structure that further eroded desire to be productive.

Just as the "forever lasting" Roman empire came to an end so will ours one day. Yes, it's a negative view but it's been predicted my not only those who study history but by history itself.

So what will take our place? I dunno, maybe one big happy koom-bah-ya world with no borders and a sea of happy and contented people? ...yeah, right.
 

agrippakc

New member
Love your state.

I fly my home state flag and have given up on the union surviving. I love the USA with all of my heart, bur sometimes we lose the ones we love.
 

fuhr52

New member
The founding fathers created a representative government not a democracy because they knew from history a democracy would not last. Unfortunately when the Constituiton is not followed or redefined to fit your agenda, the end game is the same.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
As Winston Churchill once said: "Democracy is the worst form of government.......except for all the rest."

What Heinlein described has been happening since day 1 of this country's existence. 235 yrs and it still hasn't collapsed. Doomsayers have been spouting as much for 235 yrs. Nothing is permanent except change, and the USA will one day come to an end. It may be in 100 yrs or maybe in 10,000 yrs, but it will happen eventually. That's when the doomsayers will say "See! I told you!" and all that will be proven is that even a broken clock is correct 2 times a day.
 

Tucker's Mom

New member
As Winston Churchill once said: "Democracy is the worst form of government.......except for all the rest."

<snipped> Nothing is permanent except change, and the USA will one day come to an end.<snipped again...sorry..>
I can't help but ask -- how is change working for those that voted the occupant of the WH now? Your vote carried us all with your momentary stupidity. Excuse my French!
 

MarkX

New member
Well put

agrippakc:231677 said:
I fly my home state flag and have given up on the union surviving. I love the USA with all of my heart, bur sometimes we lose the ones we love.

It is like my grandmother who , thanks to senility, in her last days went from being the sweetest most gentle, yet strong, woman on the face of the Earth to a bitter old woman.

I can say I love this country, but she is no longer who I fell in love with. I will continue to stand by her in memory of who she was, and look for the good that is still in her. I will hope and pray until the end that she will recover, but I fully expect and am planning for her death.
 
I love this country!! The good bad and the ugly!!! Love hurts sometimes people let's try to pull OUR country together and stop pulling it apart!!
 

wooddoctor

New member
I can't help but ask -- how is change working for those that voted the occupant of the WH now? Your vote carried us all with your momentary stupidity. Excuse my French!

It working out great! Like teats on a Bull, like a Leach on it's Host. Like a hemmoroid on a sphincter mussel. We need to start seeing demonstrations here like they do in Greece, where the youth, the communist indoctrinated punks, hang manicans from a rope of business owners.

If only they paid their fair share. Dirty rotten, scum bag business owners, just don't get it, need to pay there fair share.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
I can't help but ask -- how is change working for those that voted the occupant of the WH now? Your vote carried us all with your momentary stupidity. Excuse my French!

I don't think you'll find many people on this site who voted for Obama, and even fewer who'll admit to it.
 

Providence Ranch

New member
The vast Roman empire came to crumbling ruins due to the socialism of the day. People flocked to cities for the handouts and not enough agriculture/productivity existed to support the masses, along with a tax structure that further eroded desire to be productive.

Just as the "forever lasting" Roman empire came to an end so will ours one day. Yes, it's a negative view but it's been predicted my not only those who study history but by history itself.

So what will take our place? I dunno, maybe one big happy koom-bah-ya world with no borders and a sea of happy and contented people? ...yeah, right.

I'll tell you what comes after this whole thing stops circling the drain and finally falls out the bottom. For a while, there will be anarchy. We all know that. But that will be temporary. Just like a field after a fire passes, it appears that all is gone and nothing is left, but we all know that in the following spring there will be healthy grasses. So after anarchy has it's brief fiery reign, people will need to start figuring out how to survive. Hey, I've got a bunch of chickens, and they lay lots of eggs. More than my family needs. But what I really need is some grain to make some bread for my kids. Hey, neighbor, how about trading me a couple pounds of grain for a dozen eggs? And if he doesn't like that arrangement, we can work something else out, or I can go down the road and try my luck with the next neighbor. What's that called?

Capitalism. Not the "corporate greed" that liberal wack jobs associate with it, but pure, essential free market capitalism. That's where it all starts. When economies fail, it's because we veer from this ideal. And once they DO fail, capitalism is where economy naturally returns to. Think about it. It's like a big, giant, scary but happy reset button.
 

6shootercarry

New member
I'll tell you what comes after this whole thing stops circling the drain and finally falls out the bottom. For a while, there will be anarchy. We all know that. But that will be temporary. Just like a field after a fire passes, it appears that all is gone and nothing is left, but we all know that in the following spring there will be healthy grasses. So after anarchy has it's brief fiery reign, people will need to start figuring out how to survive. Hey, I've got a bunch of chickens, and they lay lots of eggs. More than my family needs. But what I really need is some grain to make some bread for my kids. Hey, neighbor, how about trading me a couple pounds of grain for a dozen eggs? And if he doesn't like that arrangement, we can work something else out, or I can go down the road and try my luck with the next neighbor. What's that called?

Capitalism. Not the "corporate greed" that liberal wack jobs associate with it, but pure, essential free market capitalism. That's where it all starts. When economies fail, it's because we veer from this ideal. And once they DO fail, capitalism is where economy naturally returns to. Think about it. It's like a big, giant, scary but happy reset button.

That was one of the many fundamental reasons this country was founded, along with the desire to spread Christianity and live freely, the desire to create free market economy was a driving factor. Many a person came here to make it big based on that idea...

As far as America coming to an end is concerned, Only if it's brought about by the action of God or the inaction of her citizens. Approximately 3% of the population in a then not yet America, actively took part in The American Revolution... What would that number be now?
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[a] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
 

Cotillion

New member
Does it make me nuts to "wish and daydream" that everything will come crumbling down? That anarchy takes over for god knows how long to end the day in day out boredom that we as Americans sludge through and call it our daily lives? I think Americans are just bored. We have it so easy that we complain about everything!
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[a] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
Because I'm a Christian I believe that the 70th Week Of Daniel/7 years of Tribulation, will begin before the end of 2012. I'm not talking about the Rapture, so no one has to bring up the "Day or the Hour" rant. Because I know that Christ is not a liar or a lunatic, I know that there will not be another generation, no college for the kids and no monster tax burden for any grandchildren. Most people, even Christians, will refuse to believe or accept Mark 13:30 where Jesus Himself says.."I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL of these things have happened". What things? The Rapture, the One World Government, the anti-christ, Armageddon, and His Second Coming. Christ is speaking of the rebirth of Israel in 1948, meaning the final/last generation was born in 1948. God said that a man's years (generation) will be "Three score & ten" (70 years). Add 70 yrs.to 1948, you get 2018. Subtract 7 yr. of Tribulation, you get 2011. Any way you do the math, there will not be another generation if you believe our Lord. Everything is perfectly in place,to include Jerusalem now being "A burdensome stone/cup of trembling" to the world this week at the United Nations. I didn't present this for arguing, just something to seriously think about. You believe it or you don't, it's that simple.
 

TekGreg

New member
From the time the Founding Fathers stepped off their ships, they were glad to have left the oppression of England behind them and happy to have the chance to start over again, no matter where it was or how hard a struggle it would be to do so. The settlers established farms or businesses, fished and hunted, traded and travelled, boated and forrested, and knew that their meals, their shelter and their livelihood came from no one but their own hard work and the sweat of their brow. For a long time there was not even printed money or coin but just a barter system that kept trading of goods and services to keep everyone surviving. Only when citizens became old and feeble did the family take care of them in the family home even though they didn't produce, but that was an honor of the family for what those older folks had done for the family in the previous decades.

The central unit of survival was the family. Some families lived completely alone with neighbors miles away. Others gathered closer for mutual support and sharing of natural resources such as timber and rivers and often formed into towns when enough families came together. As a matter of course, government officials were elected from VOLUNTEERS who would then serve WITHOUT PAY and they did it as an honor to repay the town for all of the blessings the town had bestowed upon them. Serving as Mayor or councilman or Ombudsman was not done for power or pay but as a service to the community for the betterment of the town and all of the citizens. Many of the original Continental Congressmen almost lost their farms and went bankrupt because they were not there to attend them and they lost their crops. They stayed in the congress to get the country started because it was important to them almost to the point of their own financial ruin because they LOVED THE COUNTRY.

The cities and states were supposed to be the major government to serve the citizens with the federal government only coming into play if their were issues that could not be decided between the states or there was something that concerned the entire country that should be managed as such. The federal government was never meant to hold the wealth of power it does now and the congressional and senate seats were never meant to be power and money pillars as they are now that create rich and powerful men. The entire structure of government is completely reversed from what it was meant to be and many people have lost the concept of "Family," using the government as a surrogate father and losing all concept of a work ethic where they start working for the family as soon as they can and support those that they can as well as they can. Too many expect the government to supply money, food, benefits, job leads, medical treatment and other things that the government was never designed to support the citizenry with. We have allowed politicians to bastardize the system to the point that it is completely backwards and people now use it like it is a drug worse than heroin.

It would be nice if we could fix this, even if we could get it half way back to what it used to be, but the sad truth is that the politicians are never going to fix this because they don't want it fixed. If they wanted it fixed, they would've voted for tax reform or welfare reform or any number of things that have come up a number of times than they should've but didn't. No matter what the people want, the politicians will never give up their money and power, and the only way to reform the government will be to watch it collapse and start from the bottom and build it back up. I just hope that we will learn from our past and choose not to repeat it.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
Because I'm a Christian I believe that the 70th Week Of Daniel/7 years of Tribulation, will begin before the end of 2012. I'm not talking about the Rapture, so no one has to bring up the "Day or the Hour" rant. Because I know that Christ is not a liar or a lunatic, I know that there will not be another generation, no college for the kids and no monster tax burden for any grandchildren. Most people, even Christians, will refuse to believe or accept Mark 13:30 where Jesus Himself says.."I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL of these things have happened". What things? The Rapture, the One World Government, the anti-christ, Armageddon, and His Second Coming. Christ is speaking of the rebirth of Israel in 1948, meaning the final/last generation was born in 1948. God said that a man's years (generation) will be "Three score & ten" (70 years). Add 70 yrs.to 1948, you get 2018. Subtract 7 yr. of Tribulation, you get 2011. Any way you do the math, there will not be another generation if you believe our Lord. Everything is perfectly in place,to include Jerusalem now being "A burdensome stone/cup of trembling" to the world this week at the United Nations. I didn't present this for arguing, just something to seriously think about. You believe it or you don't, it's that simple.

I don't agree w/ some of your details but yeah, we're living in the end times.

Bottom line, I believe that in the near future (say my natural life span) America will cede its national sovereignty to a one world government under the headship of the anti Christ. If you look around you can see the foundation being laid right now
 

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