After the shooting is over..


robbhamic

Instructor,NRA LEAD,more.
What happens next? Have a plan. Link Removed for blog post/ article.
 

Agreed. Mentally preparing yourself for "after the engagement" is of vital importance!

... being able to compose yourself following the adrenaline dump that results from a firefight will be crucial to your ability to gather the details needed to provide emergency responders an accurate picture of what transpired. LEO’s will be using your statements and the information you provide as a basis for determining whether your actions were justified… as well as any others who witnessed the action. So, you'll need to be able to communicate the perceived threat, and that your ONLY desire was to STOP the threat with clarity!

Good and thorough training will give you the advantage. Training is KEY!
 
Don't Talk to the Police

YouTube - Don't Talk to the Police 1

Here's one of several links to Professor James Duane's now-famous presentation on the 5th amendment. The whole presentation is almost 30 mins long, so it's been broken down into 6 or 7 segments.

I highly encourage my CCW students to not only take the time to watch the entire presentation, but also to heed the advice this attorney (as well as the attorney for AZ who compiled the CCW material) offers.

Don't talk to the police.

In training, I use LEO training to support WHY this should be very much a part of one's plan. I use a LEO-involved shooting as an example. Unlike the police, you as a citizen will not have an entire agency coming to your rescue to ensure you DON'T talk to anyone before they collect all relevant evidence and statements. The agency KNOWS that immediately after a shooting your ability to clearly and accurately "replay" what really happened has been greatly compromised due to the adreneline dump and stress of a deadly force encounter. However, they will expect YOU - acting alone as a private citizen - to do so. You're likely going to be at the police station for hours either way, you may as well have a capable and competent pro-2A attorney en route. Professor Duane offers several examples and scenarios explaining over and over WHY it's a very good idea to NOT talk to the police first.

Simple example: "how many shots did you fire?" After an adreneline dump, you may or may not be able to answer this accurately. (Probably not, unless you're a SOCOM operative who is so used to being shot at that killing someone is just another day in the office... which would paint an ugly picture if this is YOU and you just shot a BG and then are very cool and collected.)

As soon as you begin to contradict yourself, OR as soon as witnesses begin to contradict your statement to the police, the investigation can take some seriously unexpected turns. Remember, like the 2nd amendment, the 5th amendment is a RIGHT to now screw yourself over by getting diarrhea of the mouth at the most inopportune time in your gun-carrying life. Just MHO.

Oh, and from experience - the "presumption of innocence," while nice and colorful in black and white law, is a wonderful thing - but I won't ever hang my hat on it. Black and white law doesn't stay that way when it's rolling around in a dirty, gray world.
 
... Professor James Duane's now-famous presentation on the 5th amendment. Don't talk to the police.

Wow, just watched the whole lecture. Good stuff from both Prof. Duane as well as Officer Bruch. Thanks for sharing AZSATT!

... After an adrenaline dump, you may or may not be able to answer. Probably not, unless you're a SOCOM operative used to being shot at and killing someone is just another day in the office.

The major difference is experience. An experienced operator has debriefed following a firefight many times. That doesn't make the experience any less difficult to process, just means you’ve learned how to organize important details into useful data so that you can document the situation and communicate your actions more effectively. But, if this is your first time to fire a weapon at another living soul—somebody’s son, brother, husband, father—and especially if you took a life, you’re likely going to find yourself overwhelmed by the experience!

It’s definitely a similar analogy to the one that Officer Bruch used in the lecture. The investigator is an expert at his job. Likely has done thousands of interviews and knows every trick in the book on how to gather details. It’s like climbing into the ring as a first time boxer to take on a gold medal, trained and experienced boxer!
 
I totally agree with you. I tell my students to give a basic description of the event, identify weapons used, witnesses, tell the cops that they felt 'imminent jeopardy' and 'lawyer up.' Great info. I may use it in my teachings. Thanks again.
 
another good thing to consider

"I just wanted to stop the threat"
"I was afraid for my life"
"I want an attorney"

any thing else can and will be used against you
 
Great information..

Say in a home invasion, and you shoot and kill the armed intruder. After the cops are there and so, do they the assume possession of your precious weapon as evidence for however long?? Do they take all the weapons that you own? Are you left unprotected at home until trial/case over?? Hate to be left without my defense weapon
 
OK, here's what we were taught in our TX CHL class:
When the police arrive and you are standing over a dead perp with your firearm in your hand you will look like the bad guy. You need to look like the victim that you were/are. Here are some things you can do that were suggested - actually many of these may come naturally:
1. Assuming the threat is over unload and holster your firearm and call 911 on your cell phone or have someone call.
2. If possible wet your pants.
3. Sit down on the curb and shake violently, cry if possible.
(Now when the LEO arrives you will look like the victim you were and the agressor he will look like the perp who got what he deserved.)
4. Tell the LEO you are too upset to talk and if he insists tell him you are having chest pains and ask for an ambulance - you need to get away from the LEO.
5. In the ambulance call your lawyer - if you don't have one lined up already find one soon and always have their number in your wallet. You need to get lawyered up by the time you get to the hospiltal.
6. From that point on you DO NOT talk to anyone - except through you lawyer's mouth.
The End
 
OK, here's what we were taught in our TX CHL class:
When the police arrive and you are standing over a dead perp with your firearm in your hand you will look like the bad guy. You need to look like the victim that you were/are. Here are some things you can do that were suggested - actually many of these may come naturally:
1. Assuming the threat is over unload and holster your firearm and call 911 on your cell phone or have someone call.
2. If possible wet your pants.
3. Sit down on the curb and shake violently, cry if possible.
(Now when the LEO arrives you will look like the victim you were and the agressor he will look like the perp who got what he deserved.)
4. Tell the LEO you are too upset to talk and if he insists tell him you are having chest pains and ask for an ambulance - you need to get away from the LEO.
5. In the ambulance call your lawyer - if you don't have one lined up already find one soon and always have their number in your wallet. You need to get lawyered up by the time you get to the hospiltal.
6. From that point on you DO NOT talk to anyone - except through you lawyer's mouth.
The End

Can't believe that the CHL instructor would coach students to do this. :eek: I advise my students that they need to do some planning ahead of time, but never coach them to do things like "sit down on the curb and shake violently, cry if possible" or "wet your pants". Things like this may actually hurt your cases in the eyes of LE. My advice is simple. If you don't already have one, find a Criminal Defense Attorney WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH FIREARMS LAWS. A "pro-gun" defense attorney would be even better. When the police arrive, be cooperative, but DO NOT MAKE A STATEMENT WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY. You will most likely feel pretty messed up and will probably have numerous things going through your mind. It's in your best interest to get checked out by medical personnel. Request medical treatment AND an attorney before speaking to law enforcement about what happened.

In most cases you will probably be arrested after you are released from the hospital. At minimum, you will be detained and will probably lose the firearm in question for an unspecified period of time. For this reason, it's a good idea to own more than one SD firearm. Most jurisdictions will only take the firearm used in the incident (they will do testing on the firearm and preserve it as evidence should the local authorities find the need to pursue criminal charges).

If you haven't already done so, check out the online presentation by professor James Duane Link Removed

Keep in mind that I AM NOT A LAWYER. I am not giving you legal advice, simply my opinion as a firearms instructor.



gf
 
I don't know if AVIDSHOOTERTX was serious or not. I was too busy laughing my ass off to figure it out.

:sarcastic:

“There are three types of men. Some learn by reading, a few learn by observation, and the rest have to piss on the electric fence to find out for themselves.” --- Will Rogers
 
This is a Great Post. Thanks For starting a Great Conversation.
Some Experience here: I am a Security Contractor in Philippines. Member and Team Captain of a Five Man Extraction Squad.
I Must Fill out reports if someone in my Squad uses his weapon. The Team Member that used the weapon Must fill out a report and any other Team members who were there must write their perspectives... ALL Independently of each other.
We Must do this with-in 24 Hours of the Shooting. I ALWAYS Recommend my team member takes as much time as he needs before he writes anything.... I always give them a rewrite or edit once...if he should think of something else. I also ask the shooter to refrain from any bravado in his writing...It's Not the time to write a hero account of a shooting..even if it was justified and heroic... States the Facts and THATS IT!
A Private CW Carrier Does not have this grace period...he will be grilled from the start by one or many LEO.
The people That Posted to SHUT UP and Ask for your Lawyer are 100% correct. I would also ask for an ambulance as Post Shooting Trama is clinically diagnosed medically.... See a Hospital...AND Like was posted, That Does Give you time for a Lawyer to show up at The Hospital. You should have a "Family Lawyer" anyway ...They Can recommend a Criminal Lawyer or better, find a Lawyer and keep their card in your wallet next to your Permit to Carry. DO NOT Go to the Police Station without a Lawyer... So Just Demand to get Admitted to the Hospital for the night for Observation. Then Just Like ALL the Movie Stars and Politicians... Turn Yourself In to the Police WITH your Lawyer!! They can investigate ALL they want then.

On a Side Note.... For Permit Carriers... Have a Second Handgun Stored Off your Premises.. Bank Security Box, Friends House, Family Member House...Whatever... BUT, I have Heard and seen Police in Their Investigation Seizing Other Firearms in the House.. Especially if they are Seen by the Police... Also if you live alone, and the You go away in an Ambulance or God Forbid with the Police...They MUST Secure your property. That Could Mean they Didnt want to leave Firearms Unsecured..and Take Them ALL with them... it is an excuse. Try to Get them back in a timely manner..it could take weeks or longer.... Better to have a 2nd carry Gun somewhere else off Site....
I do not Know about USA, But the Police Will Take ALL your Guns on Your Property here in Philippines if you are a Private Gun owner. They Take them until the investigation is over...
My Experiences and Observations when These things Happen...

Stay Safe and God Bless.. Captain
 
I'll add one to festus' post...

I wanted the threat to stop.

I was afraid for my life/my family's lives.

I want him/her/them arrested.

I want to speak to my attorney.


I like the ambulance idea, and the offsite gun storage. Crying on the curb with wet pants... not so much, unless that's where I'm at mentally at the time.
 

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