AD/ND No hands on

[titaniumman]

I know that this topic has been beat to death, and I am sorry to add to this....But on the same note, I am tired of defending my choice of EDC whitch is a G19. I carry one in the chamber when I CC, and when on the night stand. It is only unloaded in the safe. And I practice everyday to make my draw pure reflex. I remove the mag and the chambered round at least once every day while I practice. And I reincert mag and rechamber when finished. Finger ALWAYS off trigger and have yet to have any problems.
That being said...is there any stats on ND or AD involving a loaded and chambered Glock pistol that was not being HANDLED at the time? Either holstered or lying on a surface BUT not being touched that has discharged by itself?

 

[BC1]

I too keep my G26 chambered. I've not seen or heard of any AD/ND to date that did not involve handling issues or a crappy drawstroke. Have you read the Glock torture test? Seems that gun will take an enormous amount of abuse and still function flawlessly.

Just Google "glock torture test" for some results.

 

[titaniumman]

YES I have seen it dragged for miles down a dirt road and it still did not fire the chambered round, until the test was over and the tirgger was pulled. And then it still worked as it should. That was what sold me! I hate that it has such a bad rep. with people that don't know any better.

 

[jtg452]

The same question could be asked about any modern firearm. You can load a 1911 and leave it on a table with no safeties engaged and it would most likely rust away before firing. Guns don't go off on their own except for the rarest of circumstances like some essential internal part breaking. That doesn't happen very often (I've only seen it happen once in over 30 years of shooting).

That's why most supposedly 'accidental' discharges are really from some human's negligence. Accidents are the act of God, like a tree limb falling on your car during a storm. My backing into your car in a parking lot is an act of negligence on my part.

I'm not worried about a Glock or any other gun going off on their own. Firearms are inanimate mechanical objects. They don't have a will of their own. Worrying about a gun going off 'on its' own' makes as much sense to me as worrying about my truck cranking up and driving off without me.

My personal beef with the Glock is the combination of the trigger pull (5lb standard), relatively short trigger stroke and no safety. That combination concerns me because when you combine all three, it becomes very easy to have a negligent discharge. A DA revolver or semi auto with a 8 to 12 pound trigger pull is safer because of the heavier weight of the trigger pull (and, in the revolver's case, a longer trigger stroke). A 1911 with a 5 lb trigger pull is safer to my way of thinking because it has at bare minimum, it has 2 manual safeties that can be (and should be) engaged unless the gun is about to be fired and many designs include a third firing pin safety that is disengaged only when the trigger is pulled.

 

[disneyr]

Got my first Glock (a Gen 2 19) in 1988 and one of the reasons was that they are designed not to go off unless the trigger is pulled. I alone control whether the trigger is pulled when the weapon is under my control (which it always is). They even tested drops from tall buildings. You could literally drop a loaded Glock from the Empire State Building with one in the chamber and it wouldn't go off. There is a physical block between the striker and the bullet and the striker is always only half cocked...until the trigger is pulled that is.

Anyone who knows me knows I love Glocks. That being said, I don't and won't open carry Glocks. I will repeat again an experience my friend had while a cop in the Dallas, TX area. He carried a Browning Hi-Power with manual safety. During a domestic dispute my friend had to grapple with the husband. While doing so, the wife pulled his weapon from its holster, aimed it and squeezed the trigger. If it weren't for the manual safety and the woman's lack of training or knowledge on how to deactivate the safety, my friend would be dead or horribly injured.

I have nothing against people open carrying, in fact I really like it and encourage it. I rarely if ever open carry because in the words of my friend referenced above, I do not enjoy being a "walking gun rack". When I do rarely open carry (just in support of open carry meet ups), I carry a Smith and Wesson 645 with safety engaged, hammer down with no bullet in the chamber. Then if something bad happens or someone snatches the smith I can quickly draw my Glock.

 

[bob16066]

The only hard data I've ever seen was that the NYC Police had 6,000 Accidental discharges the 1st year they switched to the Glock vice 0 the previous year with .38 revolvers. But the data wasn't broken down as to hands off/on. .

They "solved" the problem by going to a
10.5 pound trigger pull which doesn't make it clear whether it was a hands on or off problem.

 

[tattedupboy]

Gun manufacturers, just like companies that manufacture just about any other product we can think of, are in the business of making money. Any time they make a defective product, odds are that one or both of two things will happen: either people stop buying it or a person harmed by one of the defective products sues them. Both scenarios cost the manufacturers lots of money, so it's always in their best interest to make products that work as advertised.

The overly lawsuit-happy society in which we now live should be and often is enough of a deterrent against making crappy products. But no, many manufacturers still get sued when people misuse their products. The fact that Glocks are the preferred duty weapons of police departments everywhere doesn't seem to convince many that they are no more dangerous than any othher brand of firearm when they are used properly. That means not touching the trigger until the sights are lined up and you're ready to fire, using the right kind of holsters (and only if they're in good condition; a worn out holster that either leaves the trigger exposed or presses against it is a negligent discharge waiting to happen, in my opinion), and using the right kind of ammo (and using your own reloads only if you know what you're doing). Too many times people don't follow these rules and want to blame the firearm manufacturers when things go wrong. So unless the fiream works in a manner other than how it's intended to work, (like pressing its own trigger :smile: ) then any mishaps are strictly the fault of the person handling the gun, plain and simple.

 

[titaniumman]

Thanks for the replies....I am glad that I have a resource like this site available to me, so I can talk to people who don't have preconceived notions on the subject.
I am about to make another purchase, maybe a 1911 of some sort, just for the reason disneyr stated, I still don't know. I really like the unholster and shoot concept of my glock, and I can't open carry here in communist NY.
That being said, is there much difference in stopping power between a .40 and a .45. Sorry to go off on a tangent

 

[FN1910]

The trigger on any firearm serves only one purpose, that's to make the weapon go BANG! It's not there so you can rest your finger on the trigger and look gangsta and pose durring videos. If you don't pull the trigger, Glocks are not going to go BANG! It realy is that simple.

Exactly. I am not sure that I understand the OP's question as I know of no gun that will go off by itself under normal conditions. This includes Glocks and any other modern firearm. The difference between guns is when they are handled, plain and simple. Unless something pulls the trigger iw won't fire so we come down to how easy is it for the trigger to be pulled. You can carry a S/A revolver cocked with no problem as long as you don't pull the trigger. You can carry a D/A revolver cocked and it will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. The difference is that the D/A revolver will fire if the trigger is pulled whether or not it is cocked. The S/A won't. As long as you keep things such as your finger away from the trigger a Glock is no different than any other gun and I don't know where all these myths about Glocks going off automatically get started. Just like the D/A revolver the only way to prevent a Glock from firing when the trigger is pulled is to keep it unloaded. The solution is not to pull the trigger. For some that seems to be a problem.

 

[BC1]

The only hard data I've ever seen was that the NYC Police had 6,000 Accidental discharges the 1st year they switched to the Glock vice 0 the previous year with .38 revolvers. But the data wasn't broken down as to hands off/on. .

They "solved" the problem by going to a
10.5 pound trigger pull which doesn't make it clear whether it was a hands on or off problem.

Some of the oficers that were accustomed to revolvers opted to change to the "NY Trigger." I believe it is 12 pounds, same as a DA revolver. It takes five minutes to change the trigger pull.

 

[BC1]

Thanks for the replies....I am glad that I have a resource like this site available to me, so I can talk to people who don't have preconceived notions on the subject.
I am about to make another purchase, maybe a 1911 of some sort, just for the reason disneyr stated, I still don't know. I really like the unholster and shoot concept of my glock, and I can't open carry here in communist NY.
That being said, is there much difference in stopping power between a .40 and a .45. Sorry to go off on a tangent

One Shot Stop Ratios (OSSR) are 78%-85% with a .40, depending on the load. OSSR on a .45 is roughly 87%-95%. This all assumes the average size of the goblin is 170 pounds and the shot is a hollowpoint fired through a single cotton garment within 15 feet at COM. Bigger goblins have a lower OSSR, smaller goblins have a higher OSSR. Rounds differ in muzzle velocity, bullet weight (grams) and expansion in ballistic testing so there are variances and an OSSR should not be used as a guide as to how effective a shot may or may not be. But it provides a rough idea.

 

[Treo]

In just a few minutes, a Glock fanboy will come by and post a link to a test where a Glock was put in a blender filled with Drano, sulfuric acid, Coca-Cola, piranha, and 2 pounds of industrial diamonds. A CAT D8 bulldozer was then dropped on it from 1000 feet. The owner picked up the Glock, chambered a 155mm HE round, hit a post-it note at 917 miles, and then proceeded to run 726,761 rounds of Wolf ammo coated with Gorilla Glue with no failures. "

 

[Glockdude]

In just a few minutes, a Glock fanboy will come by and post a link to a test where a Glock was put in a blender filled with Drano, sulfuric acid, Coca-Cola, piranha, and 2 pounds of industrial diamonds. A CAT D8 bulldozer was then dropped on it from 1000 feet. The owner picked up the Glock, chambered a 155mm HE round, hit a post-it note at 917 miles, and then proceeded to run 726,761 rounds of Wolf ammo coated with Gorilla Glue with no failures. "

lmao i wont post the link then

 

[titaniumman]

Well I guess i'll buy another GLOCK if it will withstand all that! Thanks TREO

 

[Treo]

Well I guess i'll buy another GLOCK if it will withstand all that! Thanks TREO

4th generation GLOCKS shoot RAP rounds

 

[FN1910]

In just a few minutes, a Glock fanboy will come by and post a link to a test where a Glock was put in a blender filled with Drano, sulfuric acid, Coca-Cola, piranha, and 2 pounds of industrial diamonds. A CAT D8 bulldozer was then dropped on it from 1000 feet. The owner picked up the Glock, chambered a 155mm HE round, hit a post-it note at 917 miles, and then proceeded to run 726,761 rounds of Wolf ammo coated with Gorilla Glue with no failures. "

You forgot about it was also submerged 9,000' in the ocean in one of the sulfuric acid spewing vents for 9 days between the blender and Cat 8 dropping.

 

[Iteach4U]

Glocks simply don't go off on their own without some sort of parts modification, extreme wear, or user input. I've yet to see any stats on the matter and it would be important to note that it's a mechanical device which can and eventually will fail as will ANY firearm at some point.

One of the things that most people take for granted is chambering the same round over and over. I've had personal experience with this and a couple of problems it can create. A constant scratching of the primer surface occurs, what that causes is unknown. The bullet can actually be forced deeper into the casing, by lessening the "combustion chamber" size in that casing you're essentially making a +P round. And I've also noted certain ammunition brands can have soft enough casings that constant chambering can result in pieces of brass being scraped off the casing.

Something important to note is for the folks who like to hand-load into the chamber. This isn't a smart idea at all folks. Your extractor is meant to have a round slide up the bolt face into position, not to have it slammed onto the casing and forced around the lip. It also presents the potential for a true slam-fire if the firing pin isn't retracted into the bolt face or if it doesn't have a spring-return firing pin (known as a free floating pin like in the M16).

 

[SC Tiger]

The only hard data I've ever seen was that the NYC Police had 6,000 Accidental discharges the 1st year they switched to the Glock vice 0 the previous year with .38 revolvers. But the data wasn't broken down as to hands off/on. .

They "solved" the problem by going to a
10.5 pound trigger pull which doesn't make it clear whether it was a hands on or off problem.

My understanding of that was that these officers had gotten into the habit of pulling the trigger as they drew their revolvers. With the shorter/lighter trigger of the Glock, this didn't end well.

By design a Glock cannot fire if the trigger is not pulled to the rear by something. It is closer to a DAO system than a single action actually. The Kahr and the Ruger LCP are the same way.

 

[50SR9]

Had and have several friends of law enforcement, from local cop to U.S. marshal. They all are satisfied glock users. So I guess as stated before, what does that tell you?

 

[Deputy Dave]

Other than an incident I read about involving a Jennings J9, I've never heard of an AD / ND with a firearm that is not being handled. As others have said, if the trigger is not activated, the gun will not go off. Simple. Of course, a manual safety will add to the security when handled, but really isn't needed when the firearm is at proper rest.

As for the awesomeness of Glocks, (and I know I'll get flamed for this, but....),in a nutshell....kb!!! (That's short for kaboom, for those not in the know). And yes, I have had it happen. Once, but that is enough to make you leary. (It's tough to finish firearms qualifications ducking behind your support hand every time you press the trigger). Before the attacks and assumptions come roaring along, understand that this particular Glock Model 22 had been inspected by one of our department Glock armorers exactly 7 rounds before the catastrophic case failure. And, no, the round count was not exceedingly high, especially for such a vaunted weapon self-proclaimed as the epitome of perfection. I carry a Glock as a duty weapon, but the only reason I do is the state bought it and they pay me to carry it.

Anyone still interested can check out this link: The Gun Zone's Glock Pages

And, just in case this hasn't been posted already, check out this article on a worn holster / firearm design combination gone bad:

Gun Accidentally Discharges (8 pics) That's not a knock on Glocks, just a reminder to buy quality equipment, and watch for wear issues.

Well, gotta go for now. I see flames and arrows on the horizon. Stay safe.