Accosted in Wal*Mart; what would you do?

[Avail]

Don't know about the state of NV, but as a UT CFP instructor, we are advised by UT BCI to instruct students to call the police whenever they draw their firearm for SD purposes. This would be regardless of shots being fired or not. There have been cases in the past where a BG encounters a CC citizen, then goes on to report the "crime" to the police. The citizen is arrested and charged with terroristic threatening and encounters numerous legal challenges (both civil and criminal). In most cases, the LEO will take down some information, verify the citizen is carrying legally, write a report and be on their way. Reporting the BG will not only protect the citizen from false accusations, but may also help LEO track down and apprehend suspects.

Bottom line, gun drawn for SD, you should report it to the police.



gf

You sound like my NV instructor :biggrin:

I agree and I think you should have called the cops; by letting them know YOU were the ones that were harrassed and had to pull the weapon negates any report filed by the scared BG. He may try to sue you over new pants since his are certainly soiled!

 

[2beararms]

Although I agree that you calling the police would have been a good idea, I am quite surprised that store management did not insist on it.

Years ago when I worked as a retail manager if there was an asault on or property and I knew about it, my first call was to the police and the second to my district supervisor, if I did not make those two calls I would not have been the manager in the morning. Generally the liabilty aspect of both an assualt taking place on property and the fact that a weapon was displayed would raise red flags that say "official report".

When you show your gun in their "house" you now must play by their rules, you really are no longer in control. I am just most surprised by the rules they decided to play by.

 

[Ektarr]

In retrospect, I see where calling the Po-lice...even if only to be proactive and be the one to report first, just in case...would be a good idea. In fact, I did that myself some years ago when I had to go outside to confront a lurker. Turned out to be innocent enough, but it could have been a Bastid, if not a Zombie. However, I called the local constabulary to be the first one out with my side of the story.

I stand by my position, though, that apprehension is not in my job description.

 

[TnRebel]

Here in Florida we have brandishing law's , so to CYOB , report so later the BG can't say you where brandishing him .

Just my

 

[JJFlash]

I stand by my position, though, that apprehension is not in my job description.

I second that. If I've stopped the threat, I'm good to go.

I'm not sure about all this "be the first to call" stuff. Yeah, it's sounds good and I suppose it MIGHT save some legal hassle, but why is the onus on us, as law-abiding citizens, to prove our innocence? We have undergone background checks, hold down jobs, raise families, support our church, whatever. Anytime they want to put my personal record up against some dipshit who's tried to hijack my wallet in a restroom, feel free.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I'm not gonna overreact to it, personally. Must be the stubborn Irish in me.

 

[AvidshooterTX]

It sounded to me from the original post that the management actually escorted the guy out. That would have been the time to hold him and call the police. Not really your responsibility, or the store's, but you might have been able to save his next victim. After a couple of days have gone by I wouldn't bother reporting it. I wasn't there but it seems to me you shouldn't have to pull your gun if you're not going to shoot. And if you feared you were in imminent danger of physical vioence then you should have shot him.

 

[6shootercarry]

What would you do?

Scenario: Dh (dear husband) is still recovering from an automobile accident, he moves quite slowly, walks with a cane, etc. Shopping in Wal*Mart recently, he needed a pit stop. A fellow followed him into the restroom and never entered a stall, he just stood by the sinks waiting for dh to emerge from his stall. First clue to dh that something was amis! Dh emerged from his stall with his hand on the handle of his pistol. The fellow asked, stated, "I bet you have money in that pouch?! I could hurt you," showing his hand and the weapon he had concealed in it. It was some kind of bar the fellow had palmed, but not brass knuckles. Dh said there was more in his pouch than money and if someone was going to be hurt well it wouldn't be him (dh)! He began pulling out the pistol. The fellow backed off immediately and left the restroom. He was later escorted from the store after dh alerted the front manager!

I tried talking dh into alerting the police but he wouldn't, saying the problem was taken care of. I disagree. The fellow is still freely walking the streets.

What are you thoughts, ideas? What would you do?

I would have insisted that the police be called and the A$$H*%E be charged with attempted assault and attempted robbery. I would have been on my way after the bag of S%!T was cuffed, in the back of the cruiser, and on his way to the station. That way you will prevent it from happening to another person who may not be able to defend themselves.
Sorry to hear that happened to hubby. Have a good holiday and be safe…

 

[6shootercarry]

Here's a big "WHAT IF". What if the guy had left the store and called 911 and reported a crotchety old man that pulled a gun and threatened him in the restroom?:fie: Guess who would have went to jail.:angry:

Yup... The call goes in and the cops find DH and he has a gun... Then it's words vs. words and he may loose the right to carry...
I was told if it breaks the top of the leather (or Kydex) it gets reported. Gotta keep it on the up and up.

Just my 2 cents...
Peace.

 

[BearTaylor]

A jerk BG might have reported DH for threatening him to gain the legal upperhand. Our CCW instructor (a police chief) made it very clear the first caller gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JJFlash]

A jerk BG might have reported DH for threatening him to gain the legal upperhand. Our CCW instructor (a police chief) made it very clear the first caller gets the benefit of the doubt.

See, this is what I don't understand. So, here I am in a public restroom where some low-life threatens me with personal violence; I open my jacket to show a firearm and BG breaks off the engagement. Threat stopped. Now, BG makes a call to LEO and gets the "benefit of the doubt"? BS. It's what...who draws their cell phone faster?

Anybody who is lurking in a public restroom to threaten private citizens is an obvious low-life and it's probably not their first criminal escapade. So, we look at their record (lowlife scumbag) and we look at mine (father, husband, professional position, no criminal record) and LEO doesn't recognize the reality of the situation?

My response: "Yeah, I displayed a weapon and it saved this idiot's life."

I was trained to STOP THE THREAT. Maybe we should change that to stop the threat PERMANENTLY. No worries then about who makes the faster phone call.

 

[SteveB]

since bg was escorted out by Wal~mart employees, they should have notified police, and held him until they arrived.

 

[Ga9mm]

I was trained to STOP THE THREAT. Maybe we should change that to stop the threat PERMANENTLY. No worries then about who makes the faster phone call.

Yep - sometimes one story is better than two...

 

[billwot]

.... it seems to me you shouldn't have to pull your gun if you're not going to shoot. And if you feared you were in imminent danger of physical vioence then you should have shot him.

If presenting the weapon stopped the threat and/or prevented the robbery, mission accomplished!

Armed citizens protect themselves and prevent crimes by simply making the BG aware that they are armed far more often then they do actually firing the weapon.

 

[JJFlash]

If presenting the weapon stopped the threat and/or prevented the robbery, mission accomplished!

Armed citizens protect themselves and prevent crimes by simply making the BG aware that they are armed far more often then they do actually firing the weapon.

Yes! Nowhere in my training was I told that if the gun cleared the holster, I HAD to shoot somebody. Matter of fact, more than one instructor advised backing up to gain some distance while yanking the weapon and screaming STOP at the BG in the hopes of stopping the threat WITHOUT having to shoot someone.

 

[marionandjohn]

I think we all missed an important point in the story. DH never acctually displayed his weapon did he? He only claimed to have more then money in his pouch and began removing his hand (with pistol in it) however we were never told DH displayed his weapon. I agree completely with Stopping the threat with out shooting however one thing we must remember is were not allowed to draw unless shooting is warranted and therefore if you draw be prepared to shoot UNLESS the threat is stopped. Weather or not DH should have called the police might be dependant on if the weapon was acctually displayed or not. I personally think the store should have called the police, and DH should have given a report but who knows how or what I would have done, I can only think that I would handle the situation as well as DH did. GOOD JOB!! and thanks for showing the BG there are armed GOOD citizens in this country.

 

[billwot]

I think we all missed an important point in the story. DH never acctually displayed his weapon did he? He only claimed to have more then money in his pouch and began removing his hand (with pistol in it) however we were never told DH displayed his weapon. I agree completely with Stopping the threat with out shooting however one thing we must remember is were not allowed to draw unless shooting is warranted and therefore if you draw be prepared to shoot UNLESS the threat is stopped. Weather or not DH should have called the police might be dependant on if the weapon was acctually displayed or not. I personally think the store should have called the police, and DH should have given a report but who knows how or what I would have done, I can only think that I would handle the situation as well as DH did. GOOD JOB!! and thanks for showing the BG there are armed GOOD citizens in this country.

"He began pulling out the pistol. The fellow backed off immediately and left the restroom."

Well, I guess the info is open to interpretation. Again, I feel the important fact is that he made it apparent to the BG that he was armed, whether he displayed it or not, and that was a sufficient response to end the confrontation.

bill

 

[Glock Fan]

"He began pulling out the pistol. The fellow backed off immediately and left the restroom."

Well, I guess the info is open to interpretation. Again, I feel the important fact is that he made it apparent to the BG that he was armed, whether he displayed it or not, and that was a sufficient response to end the confrontation.

bill

We don't know what the BG saw. From his reaction, it's likely that he saw the gun or at least a part of it. It wouldn't make sense for the BG to back off if he believed that the victim was complying with his demands.



gf

 

[6shootercarry]

See, this is what I don't understand. So, here I am in a public restroom where some low-life threatens me with personal violence; I open my jacket to show a firearm and BG breaks off the engagement. Threat stopped. Now, BG makes a call to LEO and gets the "benefit of the doubt"? BS. It's what...who draws their cell phone faster?

Anybody who is lurking in a public restroom to threaten private citizens is an obvious low-life and it's probably not their first criminal escapade. So, we look at their record (lowlife scumbag) and we look at mine (father, husband, professional position, no criminal record) and LEO doesn't recognize the reality of the situation?

My response: "Yeah, I displayed a weapon and it saved this idiot's life."

I was trained to STOP THE THREAT. Maybe we should change that to stop the threat PERMANENTLY. No worries then about who makes the faster phone call.

That's what I like about your posts; to the point.

In this case I offer a "what if"... You show the scum bag who has threatened you another option (CCW). He changes his game plan and leaves the crapper and all is well. Now perhaps he has a "scum bag posse" (they do tend to attract their own types) waiting in a car in the lot. On the way out he makes you and manages to get the jump on ya.. He knows you have the CCW and knows it's location.

I gotta go with my gut on this one and call the cops and force the issue with an arrest. Now if he does have a history of (being a scum bag) criminal activity, at least now he'll have it documented to prove to all his scum bag friends that he alone reigns supreme as "The Wal-Mart Bathroom Bandit" :sarcastic:... Thoughts?

How was Thanksgiving in your neck of the woods?

 

[JJFlash]

That's what I like about your posts; to the point.

In this case I offer a "what if"... You show the scum bag who has threatened you another option (CCW). He changes his game plan and leaves the crapper and all is well. Now perhaps he has a "scum bag posse" (they do tend to attract their own types) waiting in a car in the lot. On the way out he makes you and manages to get the jump on ya.. He knows you have the CCW and knows it's location.

I gotta go with my gut on this one and call the cops and force the issue with an arrest. Now if he does have a history of (being a scum bag) criminal activity, at least now he'll have it documented to prove to all his scum bag friends that he alone reigns supreme as "The Wal-Mart Bathroom Bandit" :sarcastic:... Thoughts?

How was Thanksgiving in your neck of the woods?

Hey, 6SC...Thanksgiving was great. Both sons around and their friends made for a lively household. Loved it. Trust that your was good, too.

Little grumpy today, thus my terse posts. I don't disagree that LE should have been called on this guy; surprised that store management didn't do that, as has been noted. But, if I had stopped the threat, as DH did and notified management, as DH did, I consider my duty done. Stopping this guy so he doesn't "impact" someone else down the line is LE's job.

On your "what if" above (Gawd, I love "what ifs"...) The scenario you raise is one that I would automatically be fearful of and so would have to deal with. I don't know...I'm trailing off here as I think about this...Do I want to walk outside and meet a carload of these critters? I'm thinking not. But what's to stop these lunatics from targetting you, anyway, even if this BG was arrested? Am I calling LE cause I'm scared to walk to my car?

Gotta think about this...

This is a good "what if".

 

[JJFlash]

Ok, 6SC, I'll concede. There are two many factors in play, here, so best to contact LE. (Hey, I'm old and stubborn, but I can be swayed by good argument.) Hats off to ya on this "what if". I still don't care for this "call LEO before the BG does" stuff, tho. Yeah, I guess if I display my weapon, it'd probably be a reason to contact LE, but I hate to think they get the benefit of the doubt if they call first. But I get the logic.