A little confused

[GunMetal21]

So I am a resident of AZ, currently serving active duty in the Army in Kansas. I will be getting my AZ CCL soon. I'm a little confused about the Kansas law and how it applies to me. Am I considered a resident of Kansas which would mean I have to apply for a Kansas permit in order to CC? Or does my Active duty status mean I'm not a Kansas resident and I can still carry Conceal with just my AZ license?

 

[Rhino]

So I am a resident of AZ, currently serving active duty in the Army in Kansas. I will be getting my AZ CCL soon. I'm a little confused about the Kansas law and how it applies to me. Am I considered a resident of Kansas which would mean I have to apply for a Kansas permit in order to CC? Or does my Active duty status mean I'm not a Kansas resident and I can still carry Conceal with just my AZ license?

Kansas resident. It goes by where you live. Your Arizona residence is designed for tax purposes only, and you get to keep it that way due to your military status. Kansas might recognize your AZ license even though you no longer live in AZ, but somebody from Kansas would have to answer that question.

 

[Axeanda45]

You do not "lose" your state of residence when you join the service unless/until you register to vote or get a drivers license in the new state... and those are up to you whether to do them or not.... You can vote absentee, and wait till you get back to your home state to renew your drivers license. When I was ative duty (may have changed since then) your expired drivers license was still honored by every state if you were active duty stationed somewhere else, (show military ID with DL) they just very much preferred you renew it as soon as you got back to your home state...(and they (cops) usually suggested going home for a visit to do just that)

All that being said, you could probably qualify, by being military, as a temporary resident of the state you are in and as such get a CCW from that state. Like the other poster said, it all depends on the state.

So, I have babbled on and not told you anything for sure... My bill is in the mail.

Did a little research.... your AZ permit is good in KS... and you would NOT be considered a KS resident if you dont change your legal state of residence like I stated above...

Now, a 2nd bill will be coming but dont worry, you can pay them both with one check, I'm not too particular about that...

 

[Rhino]

You do not "lose" your state of residence when you join the service unless/until you register to vote or get a drivers license in the new state....

Slight correction. A drivers license won't change your state of residence while you're in the military. Registering to vote will, however. I was a legal resident of Texas for my entire military career (tax-wise), but never had a Texas drivers license after the original license I enlisted with expired.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Slight correction. A drivers license won't change your state of residence while you're in the military. Registering to vote will, however. I was a legal resident of Texas for my entire military career (tax-wise), but never had a Texas drivers license after the original license I enlisted with expired.

And your slight correction was erroneous.

There are two different terms being confused, as always, in this entire thread.

1. Home of Record: that is the state that is listed on the service member's pay statement for tax purposes. This determines where state taxes are or are not paid to. My home of record is Wyoming. Generally, enlisted service members can only change their home of record when they re-enlist. Not sure about officers, because I never had to change mine as Wyoming has no state income tax. That is generally the sole reason a person would change their home of record. Also, this determines moving entitlements when the service member leaves the service. Home of record has absolutely NOTHING to do with state of residence.

2. State of residence is generally where the service member lives and/or has orders to. In my case, I once had two states of residence simultaneously because I had orders to CT and lived in MA.

3. There is no automatic extension of driver's license expiration dates. That is entirely a matter of the state law that issued the driver's license. Some states extend the expiration date while the member is on active duty - some do not. I currently have a Wyoming Driver's License with an expiration date of 7/17/2013 and a Washington address on it. There is a note on the back of my driver's license that says it is valid as long as I possess an Active Duty Military ID Card. It has a Washington address on it because I renewed it by mail while stationed in WA and even the state of WY acknowledged what I was a WA state resident because of my orders to WA.

4. Registering to vote has little to do with it. I kept my voter registration in Wyoming for all but the last 6 years or so. Now I am registered in WA state. For tax purposes my home of record is still Wyoming.

To the OP:
You need the Kansas CCW permit/license in order to be exempt from the 1000' Federal School Zone prohibition in Kansas. See 18 USC 922 (q)(2).

 

[NavyLCDR]

Also, this is Kansas law:

Statute | Kansas State Legislature

75-7c03. License to carry concealed handgun; issuance; form; display on demand of law enforcement officer; reciprocity.

(c) A valid license, issued by any other state or the District of Columbia, to carry a firearm shall be recognized as valid in this state, but only while the holder is not a resident of Kansas, if the attorney general determines that standards for issuance of such license or permit by such state or district are reasonably similar to or greater than the standards imposed by this act. The attorney general shall maintain and publish a list of such other jurisdictions which the attorney general determines have standards reasonably similar to or greater than the standards imposed by this act.

Once you execute your orders to Kansas and move there - you need to get the Kansas permit/license.

 

[Axeanda45]

Also, this is Kansas law:

Statute | Kansas State Legislature


Once you execute your orders to Kansas and move there - you need to get the Kansas permit/license.

Sorry to disagree, but I do..... You do NOT need to get a Kansas resident permit UNLESS you actually go down to a Kansas state official office and CHANGE your state of residence TO KANSAS... UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY DO THAT, you are NOT a resident of that state while you are there serving in the military... Navy, I have done this twice in the last 27 years with the military yet I have LIVED in 4 different states.... If what you say is right, then when I lived overseas, I was a RESIDENT of that country and no longer an American... or, when I was stationed in Arkansas I was NOT still a resident of OHIO, yet the military AND Ohio both recognized that I was a legal resident of OHIO stationed in Arkansas........

 

[kscharlie]

Here is the link to the Kansas Attorney General's website regarding conceal carry. Concealed Carry - Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt The FAQ section specifically answers your question. Kansas allows non-resident military personnel stationed in Kansas to obtain a "resident" conceal carry license. Kansas also recognizes a conceal carry permit from Arizona. Your Arizona permit will work fine while you are stationed in Kansas.

Thanks for your service.

A better explanation from the Kansas AG: Active Duty Military Personnel

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sorry to disagree, but I do..... You do NOT need to get a Kansas resident permit UNLESS you actually go down to a Kansas state official office and CHANGE your state of residence TO KANSAS... UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY DO THAT, you are NOT a resident of that state while you are there serving in the military...

Ok.. Then;

1. Face to face transactions with firearms with Kansas residents would be illegal, because according to you he is not a Kansas resident.

2. Handgun purchases from an FFL in Kansas would be illegal, because according to you he is not a Kansas resident.

3. Without the Kansas permit, it is illegal for him to carry a loaded firearm within 1000' of a school in Kansas.

Yeah, the advantages to your theory are astounding.

I have been in the military for 32 years and stationed or lived in 8 different states.

 

[Axeanda45]

Ok.. Then;

1. Face to face transactions with firearms with Kansas residents would be illegal, because according to you he is not a Kansas resident. NOT ACCORDING TO KANSAS LAWS....


2. Handgun purchases from an FFL in Kansas would be illegal, because according to you he is not a Kansas resident. NOT ACCORDING TO KANSAS LAWS....


3. Without the Kansas permit, it is illegal for him to carry a loaded firearm within 1000' of a school in Kansas. He DOES qualify for a KANSAS permit according to the LAWS there... AND the same goes for the STATES I was stationed in...
Yeah, the advantages to your theory are astounding. Why thank you for admitting I was right navy....

I have been in the military for 32 years and stationed or lived in 8 different states. Yet you didnt know these things??? WOW

My goodness, I always knew officers were *******

 

[Rhino]

And your slight correction was erroneous.

You're playing semantics by just restating what I said in different terms. My correction was that a driver's license won't change your state of residence, and it won't, not in the context the OP mentioned and not in the context of the post I was replying to. I mentioned that Texas was my legal residence tax-wise. Rephrasing it to home of record doesn't make it wrong. And home of record is where you lived at the time you enlisted. It isn't your state of residence for tax purposes. You can change your legal state of residence for tax purposes during your time on active duty to any location where you have established a physical residence, but your home of record doesn't change except in very rare instances, so your home of record is not necessarily the state that is listed on your pay statement for tax purposes. Many service members I knew did exactly that while stationed in Alaska, because Alaska had no state tax and actually paid residents money from oil revenues every year. Their home of record remained the address where they lived when they enlisted, but their state of residence for tax purposes, the state listed on their pay statements, and their voting changed to Alaska. One reason why home of record rarely changes is because the service was on the hook for shipping your stuff home when you separated, and where you enlisted, your home of record, would always be one of those options.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/homeofrecord.htm

 

[NavyLCDR]

Still doesn't change this requirement in Federal law, if the OP desires to comply with it:

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

(q)(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Again - if the OP chooses to comply - or ignore the silly law like most people do.

 

[GunMetal21]

I think everyone here understands my confusion and why I started this thread. It's really unclear even in the actual statute. I think I will just go to the local precinct and ask what they say. The big reason I asked is because with Arizona, their CC laws are very lax especially in getting a license. Being military I don't have to take a class there. With Kansas, I do have to take a class and their license fee is over double that of Arizona so I was hoping that by obtaining my AZ license I wouldn't have to pay again and pay for a class on top of what I paid for to get my AZ license. I am not a legal Kansas resident (not registered to vote here, I vote absentee for AZ, and I do not pay Kansas State income taxes. I filled out plenty of paperwork when I registered my vehicles here so I wouldn't have to. I also file all my state taxes with AZ but thankfully Active Duty doesn't pay AZ state income taxes either.)

 

[Axeanda45]

The only benefit of getting the Kansas CCW that I see is the one Navy pointed out in his last post....... Well, there is one other I just thought of.. the police (if you ever get into a situation where they ask for your permit) would probably recognize the Kansas permit more readily than the AZ one....even though KS recognizes it.... not many cops know all the States they have reciprocity with.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am not a legal Kansas resident

What if you want to buy/sell a firearm face to face with another Kansas resident or buy a firearm other than a rifle/shotgun from a Kansas FFL? What if you wanted to get the cheaper resident hunting/fishing license? Would you be a Kansas resident then because that would only be legal to do if you were a resident of Kansas. Personally, I don't see why some military members have such an issue with just saying "I am a resident of whatever state I have orders to, and if I sleep somewhere different at night, I am also a resident there." It's like admitting to a crime to some people.

I had just the opposite issue. I walked into the WA Department of Licensing, put my military ID card and orders on the counter and said, "I would like a Washington State ID card please." The counter guy asked if I had a driver's license from another state, and I said, "Yes, Wyoming." He said, "You have to get a WA Driver's License then." I said, "No, state law says I am not required to get a WA state driver's license, and state law also says that persons who do not require a driver's license may obtain a state ID card. So that is what I want." He said, "Youe Wyoming driver's license will become invalid when you get a WA ID Card." I rolled my eyes and said, "That isn't any concern of yours, regardless of what you think will happen to my Wyoming driver's license, there is nothing keeping you from issuing me a WA State ID Card." He said, "It's up to you...".

So, after I got my Washington ID Card, I emailed the Department of Licensing HQ in Olympia and they replied that I was exactly correct. I was a WA resident due to being ordered to WA and living in WA, that I was not required to obtain a WA driver's license because state law exempted me from having to get one, that I was entitled to a WA state ID card, and obtaining the WA State ID Card would in no way invalidate my Wyoming driver's license, and that they would inform the local DOL office of the correct answers.

 

[GunMetal21]

What if you want to buy/sell a firearm face to face with another Kansas resident or buy a firearm other than a rifle/shotgun from a Kansas FFL? What if you wanted to get the cheaper resident hunting/fishing license? Would you be a Kansas resident then because that would only be legal to do if you were a resident of Kansas. Personally, I don't see why some military members have such an issue with just saying "I am a resident of whatever state I have orders to, and if I sleep somewhere different at night, I am also a resident there." It's like admitting to a crime to some people.

Wow, calm down LCDR. As a matter of fact, I did buy my Springfield XDM from a Kansas FFL dealer. However, because of my Active Duty status here, I only have to show orders to my post to be able to buy the weapon. Maybe I don't wan't to be a Kansas resident because of the additional state taxes I will incur or losing my ability to vote in the AZ elections because frankly I could care less about the Kansas elections. I will only be here a few years, so just because I don't want to be a "resident of Kansas" doesn't equate in any way to it feeling like I am admitting to a crime.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Wow, calm down LCDR. As a matter of fact, I did buy my Springfield XDM from a Kansas FFL dealer. However, because of my Active Duty status here, I only have to show orders to my post to be able to buy the weapon.

And do you know the legal basis behind that?

18 USC 921:
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

and 27 CFR 478.11:
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations

18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions
(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located.

Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Subpart B—Definitions
§478.11 Meaning of terms.
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b).

Hmmmm.......

 

[Axeanda45]

And do you know the legal basis behind that?

18 USC 921:
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

and 27 CFR 478.11:
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations



Hmmmm.......

You are COMPLETELY IGNORING the part where it says "for the purposes of this chapter" which sets up the rest of it..... That part (which you ignored) MAKES IT LEGAL FOR AN ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY TO BUY WEAPONS IN THE STATE HE IS STATIONED IN, JUST AS IF HE WAS A RESIDENT THERE..... IT ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT CHANGE HIS STATE OF RESIDENCE TO THAT STATE.....

The ONLY person who can legally change someones state of residence is that person himself......

If YOU were correct in this navy (which you most certainly are NOT) then every GI at the local base/post would be eligible to vote in the local and state elections the MINUTE they step foot onto their new station/base/post....... yet you know for a fact that this is not so..... You remain a resident of the state you were last a resident of UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY MAKE THE CHANGE YOURSELF......... and then it is only if you want to do it, it is not required in the least.......

 

[kwc]

Don't confuse state laws, as they relate to CCW licensing, with the federal law governing firearm transactions.

Active military members are considered residents of the state to which they are assigned for the purpose of firearms transactions, as defined by BATFE.

States may choose to offer resident concealed carry licenses to military members assigned on orders, but that is up to the specific state. I'm a PA resident with a PA driver's license and a resident PA license to carry. I'm stationed in IL and they refuse to issue a CCL to me since I don't have an IL driver's license.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If YOU were correct in this navy (which you most certainly are NOT) then every GI at the local base/post would be eligible to vote in the local and state elections the MINUTE they step foot onto their new station/base/post....... yet you know for a fact that this is not so.....

Wow. I just sent in my form for changing my address voting where I live. The form required a WA state driver's license or ID card number. Since my WA ID card expired when I was on deployment at sea, I had to use the second option on the form which was to check "active duty military" and fill in last 4 of my social security number. Ain't that funny how I can register to vote in WA after having lived here for 30 days without having to have anything other than my military orders here....I still maintain my Wyoming Driver's License and (don't) pay taxes in Wyoming.

Link Removed

http://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/VRF_English_Fillable_WEB.pdf

Sections 3 and 4 of the form.

Federal Voting Assistance Website:
Link Removed

Uniformed Service personnel and their family members may not arbitrarily choose which State to declare as their legal voting residence without meeting the State's residency requirement. The following are basic guidelines to follow in determining voting residency:

• In most States the legal voting residence is defined as where the citizen has, or has had, physical presence at the location and where there is the intent to remain or return.
• You may only have one legal residence at a time, but may change residency each time you are transferred to a new location. You must make a conscious decision to change residency e.g., registering to vote, registering a car, qualifying for in-State tuition, etc.
• Once residence is changed, you may not revert to the previous residence without re-establishing new physical presence and intent to remain or return.
• Family members of active duty military personnel may have a different legal residence. A spouse does not automatically assume the legal residence of the active duty member upon marriage. Minors typically assume the legal residence of either parent, and when they become 18, they also have the option of establishing their own legal residence which can be different from either parent, assuming they have met the guidelines of physical presence and intent to remain or return.
• "Home of Record" is the address of a military member at the time of joining a particular Service. Your "Home of Record" may or may not be the same as your legal voting residence. You can choose to maintain your legal voting residence at your "Home of Record" throughout your military career or you may establish a legal voting residence in a State other than your "Home of Record".
• Voting in an election for Federal offices only may not be used as the sole basis to determine residency for the purposes of imposing State and local taxes. If you claim a particular State as your residence and have other ties with that State in addition to voting, then you may be liable for State and local taxation, depending upon that particular State law. Consult your legal counsel for specific questions or situations.