A chilling story of "illegal" inter-State concealed gun carry

M

Merlin III

New member
3 1/2 years for permitted Tenn women carrying in NYC by mistake

Three and a half years in jail for Ignorance? Give me a break! A nursing student from Tenn goes to the Big Apple to apply for a nursing job and mistakenly brings her concealed weapon. Upon going to the 911 Memorial, which is a no gun zone, she asks a cop if there is a place she can "check" her gun so that she can enter the memorial without violating the law.

So the poor naive lady goes to NY for a job interview and ends up getting a temporary position for 3 1/2 years at Riker's Island Correctional facility (not good). The same is true in Massachusetts. You read about people from out of State going to jail for a mandatory one year term all the time for the crime of ignorance.
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Stupid is as stupid does! When will folks learn to keep their big mouth SHUT! No sympathy for stupid.

That being said, since we live in a government "permission" world ya got to play the game and its a damn shame law abiding citizens are the disadvantaged ones.
 
Interesting enough, an awful lot of States accept Tenn's CWP and I can see how that can lead one into complacency when traveling around the country. And the lady violated the a major rule IMHO for CW carrying, never voluntarily tell anyone that you are carrying unless it is absolutely necessary.
 
I hesitate to call her stupid but ignorant is well within her description. Stories like this are why I advocate some kind of training on laws (If common sense training existed I would add that) be part of CWP requirements. I expect that she has a good knowledge of how to handle the gun and use it but to blissfully walk around NY with it not even thinking about the laws there shows that she lacks a very important part of owning and carrying a gun. Someone that ignorant of the law should not be carrying just like those who can't tell you which end of the barrel the bullet comes out of.
 
I agree FN1910, but we all have lapses in judgment and train of thought from time to time-I know I do. It is just that her's was a major one at the wrong time and in the wrong place. A "Perfect Storm" so to speak. :(
 
Chilling? Really? Come on...

She broke the law. She will either do the time, or (more than likely) plead down to a lesser charge.

Yes, we all can agree that NYC's laws stink. But ignorance of the law is no excuse. She screwed up by carrying in a jurisdiction where her license wasn't recognized. IT IS HER OWN FAULT. Nothing chilling about that, just sad.

However - if we REALLY want to see some change, so that this kind of crap can't happen, WE NEED TO GET ON OUR SENATORS TO PASS HR 822.

HR 822 may not be a perfect bill, but wtf is? Just about everything that's passed these days is some sort of compromise. I know that, ideally, all the federal, state, and local firearms laws should be deemed unconstitutional, pre-empted by the 2nd Amendment, but that's NOT going to happen any time soon. HR 822 is a step in the right direction.
 
Then there is a legal principle called Jury Nullification-the principle they don't tell you about when you get called for jury duty. From Wikipedia and other sites: Jury nullification is a constitutional doctrine that allows juries to acquit defendants who are technically guilty, but who don’t deserve punishment. When a jury disregards the evidence and acquits an otherwise guilty defendant, it has practiced jury nullification. The jury is saying that the law is unfair, either generally or in this particular case.

Jury Nullification is perfectly legal and has a long history- indeed the framers of the Constitution intended jurors to serve as a check on bad prosecutions and ineffective laws. Northern jurors helped abolish slavery by refusing to convict people "guilty" of helping slaves escape. Nullification was also a factor in ending Prohibition, which locked up people for selling and consuming liquor.

If I was on that jury, I would not convict.
 
Well, NY is the home of the mandatory minimum sentence. It started with the Rockefeller Drug Laws and is now for firearms. Possession of an illegal narcotic will get you a ticket and a fine but a handgun will get you 3 years in exotic Club Rikers by the Sea. For this person, there is no plea to a lesser charge. I have a NY carry permit and it would be the same for me if I was caught in NYC since losing my NYC endorsement. (Can no longer prove the "need" they require for renewal. They check every 2 years for renewal) No state preemption in the Sullivan Law. NYC has fewer than 8000 CCW permits issued to Non LEO out of 8MM residents. (Yes, you can get a non LEOSA Permit still if you do not wish to qualify). Pretty poor considering of those 8,000 most will be professional licenses for security, armored car or PI.

NYPD arrests other Non-Police LEO (Marshals, Constables, Correction Officers) with weapons and makes them prove eligibility under LEOSA in court. There is a famous case of a Penn. Constable who was arrested while on duty, with other NYPD officers, serving a warrant as they felt he did not qualify for LEOSA protection.

NY State does not honor the FOPA. They will force you to use it as affirmative defense at trial after arrest and detention. This too has been proven throughout the courts.

The teachings in the police academy are very simple. If a law has been broken, an arrest must be made. Extenuating circumstances or exceptions are to be made by the court of DAs office. Example: if you are robbed and threatened at gunpoint and fire back at your assailant with a legal firearm, expect arrest anyway. Why? Discharge of a firearm is illegal except is authorized areas. The police are instructed not to interpret. That is for the DA and court. You fired, it is against the law, you take a ride. You can explain to the DA why and if he/she declines to prosecute, then you can go free. You still get the pleasure of having to explain an arrest on your record and post bail or sit in jail until they get around to deciding on your case. Everyone goes through the system.

A few rules for traveling with a firearm:

1. Check the laws for where you are traveling.
2. Check the laws for where you are traveling.
3. Check the laws for where you are traveling.

After that, check the laws for where you are traveling.

Some rules for out of towners coming to NYC:

1. Don't bring a gun to NYC.
2. Don't bring a gun to NYC.
3. Don't bring a gun to NYC.

It is a communist police state populated by gun grabbing libertards. NYC is trying hard to unseat California as the home of Western Socialism. It is, however, somewhat better in the Northern and Western counties away from the major cities.

NO, I can't move, but thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of it before. Then again, maybe it is good that the gun laws are so tough here. When the tax bill comes for the privilege of living in this state, it may make some people want to shoot themselves....
 
Phillip Gain said:
She broke the law. She will either do the time, or (more than likely) plead down to a lesser charge.

Yes, we all can agree that NYC's laws stink. But ignorance of the law is no excuse. She screwed up by carrying in a jurisdiction where her license wasn't recognized. IT IS HER OWN FAULT. Nothing chilling about that, just sad.
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I have to strongly disagree with you. Read Big John's post on NYC. There is no plea bargaining. I know you law and order types only see it one way, but I don't. In reality nothing is black and white except the law and that is F...up.

The lady had absolutely no INTENT of violating the law. She is an outstanding citizen who happens to carry. Now because of an oversight on her part and stupid laws with NO flexibility she will probably do the minimum sentence of 3.5 years and be unable to be licensed as a Registered Nurse for life. This is not justice!
 
I am really astounded by SOME of the opinions expressed in this and the other threads referenced. There are plenty of resources on the internet, this one included, that provide information for all of us with CCP to reference before we travel. None of us should be so accustomed to carrying that we "forget" we have it or "assume" our permit is good everywhere. There is no excuse for this young lady. That be said, 3.5 mandatory years is over the top and is symptomatic of the problems existing in the laws. She certainly doesn't deserve that but then, there are a lot of what if's.
 
This is just another example why we need to pass HR822. IF 822 is passed and New York City chooses to ignore it AND arrests someone I hope that whoever it is sues NYC for everthing possible. The FEDERAL Constution says that FEDERAL law is the supreme law of the land.
 
I have a very simple solution to this problem.....
"STAY THE HELL OUT OF NEW YORK!" (if you can)
I wouldn't go there if they offered me a million dollars.
I'll stay in Texas (clinging to my Bible & my guns).
 
The_Outlaw said:
I have a very simple solution to this problem.....
"STAY THE HELL OUT OF NEW YORK!" (if you can)
I wouldn't go there if they offered me a million dollars.
I'll stay in Texas (clinging to my Bible & my guns).
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Outlaw...

If we come to texas without a non-res permit or recognized state reciprocity we'll be arrested. Same as this lady. This is true in nearly every state.
 
santa said:
This is just another example why we need to pass HR822. IF 822 is passed and New York City chooses to ignore it AND arrests someone I hope that whoever it is sues NYC for everthing possible. The FEDERAL Constution says that FEDERAL law is the supreme law of the land.
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A recent federal court decision ruled that refusing to allow someone to carry a firearm is not a violation of the second amendment as the term "bear arms" is not defined as "carry arms." Next stop for this ruling is the SCOTUS.
 
Merlin III said:
The lady had absolutely no INTENT of violating the law. She is an outstanding citizen who happens to carry. Now because of an oversight on her part and stupid laws with NO flexibility she will probably do the minimum sentence of 3.5 years and be unable to be licensed as a Registered Nurse for life. This is not justice!
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In addidtion to the comments of MerlinIII, having a felony arrest on her record may cost her the privilege (not RIGHT) to maintain her handgun permit in Tennessee. The U.S. needs HR822, or other legislation to strengthen our rights nationwide. Shouldn't be necessary, but unfortunately it is.

"Re-elect NOONE" - Gary Nelson, 1976
 
Don't forget that NYC put their star wide receiver Plexico Burress in jail for two years on possession of a handgun. Bloomberg personally wanted nothing less than 3 1/2 yrs. She will not catch a break and will definitely be convicted if she takes it to trial. If she is lucky, she'll get a plea for 2 yrs and she will serve time in prison. Bloomberg is rancid when it comes to gun owners. Unfortunately, her life is devastated and will in the long run become a convicted felon. Sorry!
 
Unfortunately, I agree. She F'd up. I just traveled through four states and before I left for the trip I printed out and carried with me the necessary parts of each states gun laws. It's ludicrous we should have to do that but if you want to carry, I believe it comes with the territory.
 
Merlin III said:
I agree FN1910, but we all have lapses in judgment and train of thought from time to time-I know I do. It is just that her's was a major one at the wrong time and in the wrong place. A "Perfect Storm" so to speak. :(
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A agree that 3.5 years is wrong and over the top but I can't go along with a lapse of judgment or train of thought. She was carrying a gun and when you do that you are not allowed a lapse of judgment. If you regularly have a lapse of judgment while carrying then you need to leave your gun at home. Same way with losing your train-of-thought over this. If she was not aware of the laws in NYC about guns then how many other serious laws is she not also aware of.

As for jury nullification I would not even consider it in this case and even if she somehow gets out of this I don't know if I want her carrying a gun afterwards. It is people like this who wind up causing problems for those who are responsible and follow the rules of gun safety and laws.

There are a lot of laws that I do not agree with but until they are changed I plan on trying to obey them. Just like the office rules: 1. The boss is always right. 2. If the boss is wrong then see rule number 1.
 
Or just do not go to states with anti firearm laws and spend you money in states that do not restrict your freedom.
 
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