1st BAD Open Carry experience

Something you may not Know about Walmart. John Walton (son of the founder or Walmart)

John Walton was a billionaire. But he also followed his passions of building things - motorcycles, airplanes, etc. He built schools and spent millions and millions on educating children. He volunteered for Viet Nam. He could have been an Officer and probably gotten his choice of assignments, but, instead, he served as a Special Forces Medic taking care of his men - putting their lives ahead of his own.

The plane he died flying was an experimental ultralight aircraft with a small, gasoline-powered engine and wings wrapped in fabric similar to heavy-duty sail cloth, officials said.

John was a Green Beret, part of a unit code-named the Studies and Observations Group, or SOG (cover for "special operations group"), a secret, elite military unit whose operatives would be disavowed by the U.S. government if captured. SOG often conducted actions behind enemy lines and in Laos and Cambodia. John joined the unit in 1968, right after the Tet offensive. On almost every mission there was a firefight. A particularly horrifying battle occurred in the A Shau Valley in Laos while he was assigned to a unit named ST (strike team) Louisiana. John was the commando team's No. 2 as well as its medic. One morning ST Louisiana was dropped from helicopters onto a ridge near the DMZ and was attacked by North Vietnamese army soldiers. In a memoir titled Across the Fence: The Secret War in Vietnam, fellow Green Beret John Stryker Meyer gives an account of that day: "Four of the NVAs rounds struck the tail gunner, wounding him severely. As Walton swung his CAR-15 toward the enemy soldier ... [his] rounds hit the NVA soldier and drove him back in the jungle."

The account goes on to say that Walton's commanding officer, Wilbur "Pete" Boggs, called in a napalm strike that landed yards away from John. Soon the six-man team was surrounded. One was dead and three were wounded. John tended to casualties, including Boggs, who was knocked semiconscious by shrapnel, and Tom Cunningham, who was badly hurt. "The knee got blown out and started hemorrhaging very, very severely. John Walton applied a tourniquet to my leg to stop the severe hemorrhaging," recalls Cunningham today. John called in two choppers for extraction. As the first Kingbee dropped in and lifted off with some of the men, the NVA intensified its assault. A second chopper was needed to get all the men out, but the landing zone was too hot to make it in. Walton and his team thought they were doomed, but suddenly the first chopper came back down, even though their added weight might make it too heavy to take off again. With the enemy advancing into the clearing, firing at the helicopter, and Walton trying to keep Cunningham alive, the Kingbee took off and barely made it over the treetops……..

Long story short, he was more than most would know. RIP sir!

Great story and history. I appreciated it. However, his children are running the company now and making bottom line business decisions that have negative effects on american workers and our economy. Is it just me or does it seem strange that all those lives were lost in Nam; a communist country and United States does more business every day with another communist country in China? I'm just saying.
 
Bikenut. I see you point. But your using "normal man reasoning" that just does not apply to the vermin that stalk our streets. Yes could it stop a "would be" criminal...maybe, but will it stop a hardend bad guy?...NOPE

So in responce to your scenario, here is another. Bad guy sees you. He sees you get out of you new Mercedes, he notices your fine rolex watch, then he sees your highly customised 1911 on your hip.....you know what he thinks...

"Check that out, I'm gona git me a fat wallet, a fine watch and a pretty new gun"

Bad guy is not going to walk up to you and hold you up, he is a criminal not a moron. He is going to wait until you come back to your car, approuch you from the rear, shoot you in the back of the head, take your stuff and drive away with a new story to tell his buddy's. Your never going to have the chance to use your gun.

For ever possible benifit of open carry there is an negative, for every ying there is a yang.

I personally prefer NOT to telegraph my defensive systems. If I am going to punch you in the face, I am not going to tell you first and if I am going to shoot you.....you will find out when I draw, not befor....

To each his own.

Thank You very much for what you have said. I could not have said it any better. Yes you do have a right to OC and yes I have a surprise for the bad guy who thinks he has an easy target.
 
leadsender:309899 said:
Thank You very much for what you have said. I could not have said it any better. Yes you do have a right to OC and yes I have a surprise for the bad guy who thinks he has an easy target.

You want to look like an easy target? Why?

What surprise do you have for someone who is going to shoot you in the back of the head with no warning? Unless of course you actually believe these super hardened bad guys turn into little angels when you hide your firearm...hmmm, nope, doesn't work like that...you are as dead as anyone who drives a new Mercedes, flashes a Rolex, and then lacks awareness.
 
Standby, that is a great story about the son of Walmart's founder. It has no bearing on Walmart itself.

Within a couple of years of Walmart moving into my town, the K-Mart closed. Many of the Mom and Pop shops in the historic downtown closed. A nearby television manufacturer moved to China thanks to Walmart's aggressive tactics. There are now no TVs manufactured in the USA, thanks in large part to Walmart. Don't believe me? Do the research yourself. Many in my town moved and/or lost their homes. Some work in the Walmart store for a wage that will not support a family, with no health benefits. Others work in the Walmart distribution center in terrible conditions, at a non-living wage, with no health insurance. This same story has been repeated thousands of times throughout this nation and around the world. Walmart is the reason we have no manufacturing in this country. They are the reason that the recession has been so severe (it probably would have happened anyway with that spendthrift in the White House, but would not have been nearly as bad).

Walmart has broken just about every law a corporation can break: not paying for hours worked; gender discrimination; racial discrimination; bribing officials for building permits; pollution; bribing officials to get out of punishment for pollution; and on and on and on and on...

Would you spend your money to support an anti-gun company? Then why do you spend your money to support an anti-American company? Walmart has done more than any other corporation to destroy this country. Please do not help them by shopping there.
 
What seems so strange to me is how often this happens. Over and over, all over the country.
It shouldn't seem strange. 50+ years of experience tells me that:

  1. Idiots often equate their prejudices with "law".
  2. Idiots are invariably certain that their opinions are absolutely correct. The more idiotic those opinions, the more certain they are of their correctness.
 
I would think it would be a smart thing to get a copy of the Wal-Mart policy with the DMs (District Manager's) signature on it. That way, if you are approached again, show them the paper. That could shut some mouths pretty quick.
However, I agree that open carry is NOT a good idea. Many people have made the observation that if a bad guy comes into the store, he will shoot you first, before doing or saying anything else, even if he thinks you are a cop. I have actually done research on this. If you have a CCW/CHL/CWP (etc), keep it concealed very carefully. Don't attract unnecessary attention from anyone, especially the bad guys.
 
Everyone should have a 2A-friendly attorney ready, just in case he/she needs one. I use Prepaid Legal- with it, I can call an attorney anytime I want to ask a question. I've done it MANY times. The plan is something like $36.00/month. Also, look into CHLPP (Concealed Handgun License Protection Plan). You are then covered for pretty much any Murphy's Law Moment.
 
I would think it would be a smart thing to get a copy of the Wal-Mart policy with the DMs (District Manager's) signature on it. That way, if you are approached again, show them the paper. That could shut some mouths pretty quick.
However, I agree that open carry is NOT a good idea. Many people have made the observation that if a bad guy comes into the store, he will shoot you first, before doing or saying anything else, even if he thinks you are a cop. I have actually done research on this. If you have a CCW/CHL/CWP (etc), keep it concealed very carefully. Don't attract unnecessary attention from anyone, especially the bad guys.
Please provide your sources as to how many actual factual researchable incidents of ordinary people open carrying (not cops) getting "shot first". I am sincerely interested in the data your research has uncovered.
 
Bikenut:311157 said:
I would think it would be a smart thing to get a copy of the Wal-Mart policy with the DMs (District Manager's) signature on it. That way, if you are approached again, show them the paper. That could shut some mouths pretty quick.
However, I agree that open carry is NOT a good idea. Many people have made the observation that if a bad guy comes into the store, he will shoot you first before doing or saying anything else, even if he thinks you are a cop. I have actually done research on this. If you have a CCW/CHL/CWP (etc), keep it concealed very carefully. Don't attract unnecessary attention from anyone, especially the bad guys.
Please provide your sources as to how many actual factual researchable incidents of ordinary people open carrying (not cops) getting "shot first". I am sincerely interested in the data your research has uncovered.

Many people have made the observation that certain concealed carriers make observations about nothing and concluding unsubstantiated claims that resemble a pile of horse manure. I have researched it, and its actually just a person that is full of ****, and we have to deal with the overflow that comes out of their mouths.

does r2d2 think the OP says open carry is bad or that he had a bad experience while open carrying? Who is he "agreeing with?" Must be himself...he gives the others concealed carriers a bad image.

Bike...how many times have we asked for their research in the past 6 months? How many times have they answered the call?
 
However, I agree that open carry is NOT a good idea. Many people have made the observation that if a bad guy comes into the store, he will shoot you first, before doing or saying anything else, even if he thinks you are a cop. I have actually done research on this. If you have a CCW/CHL/CWP (etc), keep it concealed very carefully. Don't attract unnecessary attention from anyone, especially the bad guys.

AWESOME! Finally! Someone who has done RESEARCH and made OBSERVATIONS! So, like Bikenut, I too cannot wait to actually see examples of this happening in the real world that observations and research have uncovered.

Hold-Your-Breath.jpg
 
open carry just makes you a target of people

people who will call the police , scream, and people who want to see how bad ass you are....
 
Please provide your sources as to how many actual factual researchable incidents of ordinary people open carrying (not cops) getting "shot first". I am sincerely interested in the data your research has uncovered.

You're gonna be waiting a long time
 
Well since this has turned into a concealed carry vs. open carry discussion, I will put in my two cents.

I don't see anything wrong with open carry, but I do think it makes you more of a target with uneducated citizens prone to panic, and those who simply don't like it. As far as criminals are concerned, I knew a guy who was a black belt in Karate but never told anyone, as there was always some bad-ass that felt he had to challenge him. Personally, I've always thought that if I was in a convenience store or bank and had a gun on my belt, it would make me an instant target. It hasn't happened to me yet though, so I can't say for certain.

I would not want to see open carry outlawed, as that might imply that it is something sneaky and bad that we are doing that must be hidden. I think more open carry would get the average citizen more used to the idea, but unfortunately, today we have such a split mindset about things that I don't see it going over very well.
 
Well since this has turned into a concealed carry vs. open carry discussion, I will put in my two cents.

I don't see anything wrong with open carry, but I do think it makes you more of a target with uneducated citizens prone to panic, and those who simply don't like it. As far as criminals are concerned, I knew a guy who was a black belt in Karate but never told anyone, as there was always some bad-ass that felt he had to challenge him. Personally, I've always thought that if I was in a convenience store or bank and had a gun on my belt, it would make me an instant target. It hasn't happened to me yet though, so I can't say for certain.

I would not want to see open carry outlawed, as that might imply that it is something sneaky and bad that we are doing that must be hidden. I think more open carry would get the average citizen more used to the idea, but unfortunately, today we have such a split mindset about things that I don't see it going over very well.

The underlined part can be said for me as well...and everyone else I know that has open carried. In fact, it can be said about nearly every open carrier...since we have yet to find more than 2 credible incidences involving an open carrier. Huh...wait...so I haven't had it happen, Themyst hasn't, bikenut, navylcdr, blues, etc etc thousands and thousands of open carriers across decades of time haven't had it happen...yet "it must make you an instant target because I said so." Just saying...

open carry just makes you a target of people

people who will call the police , scream, and people who want to see how bad ass you are....

I must be a lousy target because I have had no police called on me, no screaming or panic, and no one has wanted to see how bad ass I am...so much for your theory.
 
I do think it makes you more of a target with uneducated citizens prone to panic, and those who simply don't like it.

90% of the uneducated citizens prone to panic and those who simply don't like it who have personally targeted me for open carrying by saying something to me have been people who also have told me that they have concealed carry permits and carry their guns concealed. Just stating a fact from my personal experiences. I have more personal negative encounters with the concealed carry only crowd than from any other group.
 
open carry just makes you a target of people

people who will call the police , scream, and people who want to see how bad ass you are....

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Please provide your sources as to how many actual factual researchable incidents of ordinary people open carrying (not cops) getting "shot first". I am sincerely interested in the data your research has uncovered.
You're gonna be waiting a long time
I have yet to see anyone who makes these claims provide any actual substantive proof that it actually happens in reality... and not just inside their fear ridden fantasies. So I keep asking for actual factual proof that the scary "ZOMG!!! Yer gonna get shot first!!!" .. "People are gonna run away from you screaming in terror!!!" .. "77 thousand cop cars are gonna descend on you!!!!" .. "Every bad guy for miles around will target you!!!" .. is more than their own irrational fears.

If there actually IS proof that all those scary things happen in numbers significant enough to be concerned about I'd love to see the data. And then I'd like to compare the actual incidents where open carriers were targeted and attacked... with the actual incidents where concealed carriers were targeted and attacked.

I don't have any data on either yet I suspect... just suspect (when expressed in a percentage to compensate for there being more concealed carriers than open carriers) that concealed carriers get attacked more often than open carriers.

And I suspect one of the major factors is that to a bad guy concealed carriers look exactly like all the other unarmed possible victims... easy prey. But to the bad guy the open carrier looks like someone who has a gun.

Sadly I don't have the resources to launch an in depth study of OC attacks vs CC attacks.... because I suspect the results would be eye opening to many a concealed carrier.

Soooo.... to all those concealed carriers who think open carry will get someone "shot first" or will "cause folks to scream in terror" or will cause bad guys to "see just how bad ass you are"....

Please provide cites and/or links to actual factual researchable incidents where that has happened... and...

Prove it!

I really want to see the data.
 
Like Treo said; "You're gonna be waiting a long time."

I've only seen one or two cases where a OC'er was attacked "strictly" because they were OC'ing. But, I hear a lot more stories about CC'ers having BG encounters where they have to use their firearm to scare off, or defend themselves from a BG. OC'ers having BG encounters seems to be a much, MUCH rarer occurrence. (a LOT!!!!)

I really would like for someone to explain this apparent statistical anomaly. It would seem that if we are to believe all the anti CC'ers in the world, we would see a much higher ratio of OCer-vs-BG than we do CC'er-vs-BG.

However, "statistically" speaking, it seems CC'ers find themselves in more BG encounters than OC'ers. (I just wonder why?)

-
 
AWESOME! Finally! Someone who has done RESEARCH and made OBSERVATIONS! So, like Bikenut, I too cannot wait to actually see examples of this happening in the real world that observations and research have uncovered.

Hold-Your-Breath.jpg

The cat is going to die of suffocation if someone doesn't come quick and give him what he wants...
 

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