another dumb activist. his 15mins


-snip-having a right to do something (anything, not just OC) doesn't necessarily mean you should.
Ok... and here is the point of contention I have with that statement.

If you, as an individual, tell yourself "Just because I have the right doesn't mean I should" that is a valid statement because you are only talking about what YOU yourself should, or shouldn't, do according to your own personal standards.

But when the cop in the video said "Just because YOU can (YOU have the right) doesn't mean YOU should."

Then we have a cop, an authority figure, telling someone else what they should, and shouldn't do, according to the cops personal opinion. And when that happens we are getting into U.S. Code Title 18 (color of law) violations.

But, when a private individual says the same thing to someone else.. "Just because YOU have the right (YOU can) doesn't mean YOU should." then we are getting into the area where one person is trying tell someone else what they should/shouldn't do according to their own personal standards (opinion) of behavior.

No individual has the right to tell me that "Just because YOU have the right doesn't mean YOU should" since if I have the right it is up to ME if I should. And whether the other guy thinks I should or shouldn't doesn't deserve the attention paid to a fart in a windstorm.

But, if I buy into the idea that "Just because YOU have the right doesn't mean YOU should." then I am allowing someone else to dictate what I should.. and what I shouldn't ... do with my rights.

Not gonna happen since I always bristle when someone says to me... "YOU should......." especially when it comes to rights.
 

Optically? I wasn't doing anything "optically" so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I wasn't comparing anything to OC either. I was stating a principle. Actually I didn't state it at all. Someone else did. I just said it was valid in logic, and it is. Do you really think you should do everything you have a right to do? Should you go out and beat your car with a sledgehammer? You certainly have the right to, but that doesn't mean you should. Please tell me where that logic is faulty. There was no extra context added to the statement. No hidden agenda. Nothing implied. No added baggage. It wasn't in reference to OC, CC or chimpanzees. It was merely a statement of principle, or an axiom if you will.

You all might want to go back and see what I was replying to when I made that comment. What I said was a retort to post #96. Otis was claiming that a comment about the responsibility not to scare the sheeple being the main concerrn was the most sound and logical reason in the video that the guy shouldn't have been carrying. I was turning that around by saying the only logic was in the sentence prior to that, i.e. that having a right to do something (anything, not just OC) doesn't necessarily mean you should. That's a perfectly valid, logical and reasonable statement, and if so many people weren't reading things into it that weren't there, we wouldn't be wasting all these posts going over it again and again.
That should have read "logically." Fat fingers and spell check got me...
 
Actually in the context that it's not suicide, and its perfectly legal, no one should tell me if I should or should not jump from a bridge. I have jumped from my fair share of ledges into a lake, I want to base jump and wing suit fly off a cliff some time in my life too.

As was said before, gun control has little to do with guns and everything to do with control. Why is it that any one of you feel the need to control other people?
 
Yes it does chen...sorry-I didn't realize that was you in the video......didn't quite picture you with that kind of squeaky voice and all...my apologies :to_pick_ones_nose3:

WOW- there are TWELVE pages of good arguments but I'm gonna keep it simple and quote my first post on this thread....the guy still is a GIANT----


Quote Originally Posted by phone man View Post
two words....douche-bag or is that one?
 
What exactly does this do for 2nd amendment rights? Nothing. It's a mockery and wastes police resources. This Dork got his 15mins of fame because my dumbarse is reposting. But, I couldn't resist. It's worth pointing out how foolish these baiting activities are getting.

Maybe, maybe not. One thing for sure it is a civics lesson in Constitution 101.
What do you mean wasting police resources? The cop is the one wasting. He should have said to his dispatcher something like this.
"One Adam 12 arrived" "All I see is a citizen bearing arms" " No threats, No law being broken" "NRN 10-08. Is lunch available?"
 
Actually, it's neither logically valid or legally valid, unless you can show where the "right" is articulated to commit suicide (jumping off a bridge is a suicide attempt in most cases). Even if the words aren't taken by LE as a euphemism for a suicide attempt, where would the "right" to intentionally hurt one's self be articulated?
Go beat your car with a sledgehammer then. That's legal and you have a right to do it.

As it applies to this thread, there is valid law and valid logic in the right Markedguardian was exercising. It's up to no one but him to decide whether or not he should exercise that/those rights.
I never said it wasn't. I agree.
 
Ok... and here is the point of contention I have with that statement.

If you, as an individual, tell yourself "Just because I have the right doesn't mean I should" that is a valid statement because you are only talking about what YOU yourself should, or shouldn't, do according to your own personal standards.

But when the cop in the video said "Just because YOU can (YOU have the right) doesn't mean YOU should."

Then we have a cop, an authority figure, telling someone else what they should, and shouldn't do, according to the cops personal opinion. And when that happens we are getting into U.S. Code Title 18 (color of law) violations.

But, when a private individual says the same thing to someone else.. "Just because YOU have the right (YOU can) doesn't mean YOU should." then we are getting into the area where one person is trying tell someone else what they should/shouldn't do according to their own personal standards (opinion) of behavior.

No individual has the right to tell me that "Just because YOU have the right doesn't mean YOU should" since if I have the right it is up to ME if I should. And whether the other guy thinks I should or shouldn't doesn't deserve the attention paid to a fart in a windstorm.

But, if I buy into the idea that "Just because YOU have the right doesn't mean YOU should." then I am allowing someone else to dictate what I should.. and what I shouldn't ... do with my rights.

Not gonna happen since I always bristle when someone says to me... "YOU should......." especially when it comes to rights.
All this explains why you've taken such a dislike to the phrase. You're viewing it solely in the context of a cop telling someone not to do something, when I've explained several times that I wasn't using that context. I was making a generalization and you're taking it quite literally. If someone says don't spit into the wind or don't eat yellow snow, they aren't trying to control your life. Likewise, if they tell you that having a right to do something doesn't necessarilty mean it's a good idea to do it, that isn't an attempt to control your life either. But you seem unable to grasp it as a generalization and can't let go of the cop trying to convince the guy not to carry. I wasn't talking about the cop. I wasn't talking about the cops' agenda, which I've already explained. I agree with you that the cop had a motive in using that phrase that is counter to our basic liberties. But I wasn't in any way supporting him or his motives. That's the part that I've repeatedly tried to get across but that you and some others don't seem to be able to grasp.

And just on a technicality standpoint, telling anyone what they should or should not do is advice or an opinion, not control. Most people bristle when someone gives them very unwelcome advice, so I can sympatize with you in that regard.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE COP! I'm talking about the principle. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING, PICKING YOUR NOSE, TAUNTING A DOG, CLIMBING A TREE, GIVING YOUR BOSS THE FINGER, ETC., DOES THAT MEAN YOU SHOULD DO THAT THING? NO! I REPEAT, NO! Now, I fail to see what is difficult to understand about that principle. Does saying that mean I support cops in coercing people not to open carry? Of course not. That's absurd. I support open carry. Always have.

By the way, if you give your boss the finger, please capture that on video so we can all watch.

That should have read "logically." Fat fingers and spell check got me...
Ah. Okay.

Actually in the context that it's not suicide, and its perfectly legal, no one should tell me if I should or should not jump from a bridge. I have jumped from my fair share of ledges into a lake, I want to base jump and wing suit fly off a cliff some time in my life too.
We had some pits where they mined bentonite when I was a teenager. There were two ledges we jumped from. One was 60 feet and the other, which we called the crows nest, was 72 feet. Only a few of us jumped off that one. Unfortunately after a few years the water moccasins started to move into the pit and we had to stop jumping there.

As was said before, gun control has little to do with guns and everything to do with control. Why is it that any one of you feel the need to control other people?
Who said they did?
 
As was said before, gun control has little to do with guns and everything to do with control. Why is it that any one of you feel the need to control other people?
Who said they did?

You said yourself that the cops were trying to control Markedguardian's decision to open carry. That's who did. This discussion is about that video, not about you.

And I don't WANT to pound my car with a sledgehammer even though I have a right to. If I did want to, then I SHOULD go out and do it since it is my right, but it's such a ridiculous analogy to what we've been discussing that it shows that you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. You also have the right to go pound sand. Have at it whenever you're ready.

Blues
 
You said yourself that the cops were trying to control Markedguardian's decision to open carry. That's who did. This discussion is about that video, not about you.
You need to read the post again. He asked why any one of US felt the need to control other people. He wasn't talking about the cops. I didn't insert myself anywhere.

And I don't WANT to pound my car with a sledgehammer even though I have a right to. If I did want to, then I SHOULD go out and do it since it is my right, but it's such a ridiculous analogy to what we've been discussing that it shows that you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.
I didn't start the argument, nor am I the one continuing it. It's not an analogy. It's an example of the principle. There are endless possible examples. And we weren't discussing desire. The phrase was about whether you should or should not do something, i.e. whether it's a good idea to do something or not. It wasn't about whether you wanted to.

You also have the right to go pound sand. Have at it whenever you're ready.
Atta boy! Way to take the moral high ground!
 
Almost forgot to post this. This is a happier example of similar circumstances from the video.

Link Removed
 
One more time.... Rhino

When you tell yourself that just because you have a right and you can doesn't mean you should that is a valid principle/belief.

When you tell ME just because I have a right (I can) doesn't mean I should... (which is what that means when someone tells someone else...-->Just because you can doesn't mean you should<-- ) you are now telling me what you think I should NOT do. And while that may be offered as "advice" you do not have a right to tell me to, or expect me to, adhere to your principles/beliefs. Because when folks tell other folks that just because they can doesn't mean they should they are NOT espousing a principle... they are letting the other person know they personally disapprove of the other person doing it.

But... BUT... when a cop while engaging in his official duties as an authority figure representing the government says "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." that IS an attempt to control the behavior of the person using the weight of authority their uniforms and badges give them.

So if you, or anyone, wish to live by the principle that "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." then the only time it should be said is in front of the mirror.... not to another person. And that is my point of contention.
 
One more time.... Rhino

When you tell yourself that just because you have a right and you can doesn't mean you should that is a valid principle/belief.

When you tell ME just because I have a right (I can) doesn't mean I should... (which is what that means when someone tells someone else...-->Just because you can doesn't mean you should<-- ) you are now telling me what you think I should NOT do. And while that may be offered as "advice" you do not have a right to tell me to, or expect me to, adhere to your principles/beliefs. Because when folks tell other folks that just because they can doesn't mean they should they are NOT espousing a principle... they are letting the other person know they personally disapprove of the other person doing it.

But... BUT... when a cop while engaging in his official duties as an authority figure representing the government says "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." IS an attempt to control the behavior of the person using the weight of authority their uniforms and badges give them.

So if you, or anyone, wish to live by the principle that "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." then the only time it should be said is in front of the mirror.... not to another person. And that is my point of contention.

It ain't gonna work, because there's such a wide chasm between an analogy of a given principle and an example of one. Really Bikenut, we are out of our depth in the use of the English language here. I predict another obfuscatory, argumentative rebuttal to your well-reasoned and 100% correct post in 5...4...3...2...

Blues
 
Almost forgot to post this. This is a happier example of similar circumstances from the video.

Link Removed

I'm glad this turned out the way it did. It could have gone the other way and that would have been a terrible shame.
 
One more time.... Rhino

When you tell yourself that just because you have a right and you can doesn't mean you should that is a valid principle/belief.

When you tell ME just because I have a right (I can) doesn't mean I should... (which is what that means when someone tells someone else...-->Just because you can doesn't mean you should<-- ) you are now telling me what you think I should NOT do. And while that may be offered as "advice" you do not have a right to tell me to, or expect me to, adhere to your principles/beliefs. Because when folks tell other folks that just because they can doesn't mean they should they are NOT espousing a principle... they are letting the other person know they personally disapprove of the other person doing it
Okay. I'll test that theory. Here goes. Just because you have a right to do something, and you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. Now, did I just tell you what you should not do? No. Did I just tell you to adhere to my beliefs or principles? No. Did I just disapprove of any action by you by saying those words? No. I stated a principle. A principle that is not tied to any specific action or event. You're still attaching a context I wasn't using. And for the umpteenth time, I wasn't the one who first posted those words. All I said was that the principle itself is valid and logical, which it is. And we've since been expending seemingly endless time arguing because you and Blue keep trying to attach meanings to my remarks that I never stated, implied or intended, despite the fact that I've told you that over and over again.

But... BUT... when a cop while engaging in his official duties as an authority figure representing the government says "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." that IS an attempt to control the behavior of the person using the weight of authority their uniforms and badges give them.
I already said the cop had a motive, and a context I wasn't using. I've said that repeatedly. If the cop had said "A place for everything, everything in its place.", and I had said it was a sound, logical principle, would we still be arguing about that 51 posts later too?

So if you, or anyone, wish to live by the principle that "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." then the only time it should be said is in front of the mirror.... not to another person. And that is my point of contention.
Then it will have to remain contentious, because people voice principles to each other every day. You've voiced the principles of individual rights and freedom repeatedly in this thread. Should we now say you should keep those principles to yourself instead of trying to control us? Sorry, but I'll voice any principle I feel like voicing. It's not my fault if you can't understand them, or refuse to.
 
You said yourself that the cops were trying to control Markedguardian's decision to open carry. That's who did. This discussion is about that video, not about you.
You need to read the post again. He asked why any one of US felt the need to control other people. He wasn't talking about the cops. I didn't insert myself anywhere.

"Any of you" involves anyone able to read this forum...which is nearly anyone in the world, including the police, the members here, the politicians, etc etc.

Okay. I'll test that theory. Here goes. Just because you have a right to do something, and you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. Now, did I just tell you what you should not do? No. Did I just tell you to adhere to my beliefs or principles? No. Did I just disapprove of any action by you by saying those words? No. I stated a principle. A principle that is not tied to any specific action or event. You're still attaching a context I wasn't using. And for the umpteenth time, I wasn't the one who first posted those words. All I said was that the principle itself is valid and logical, which it is. And we've since been expending seemingly endless time arguing because you and Blue keep trying to attach meanings to my remarks that I never stated, implied or intended, despite the fact that I've told you that over and over again.

Let me test your theory.

Just because you can respond to this thread, doesn't mean you should.

Or how about this one...

Just because you can own a firearm, doesn't mean you should.

What do you think our lovely counter parts are suggesting, even using to push control legislation?
 
Okay. I'll test that theory. Here goes. Just because you have a right to do something, and you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. Now, did I just tell you what you should not do?

Yes, because you are directing your statement personally to me.... you did just tell me what I should not do. You just told me that "Just because I can doesn't mean you think I should."

And if you were to make that as a general statement then you are telling everyone "Just because you can doesn't mean I think you should."


No. Did I just tell you to adhere to my beliefs or principles? No. Did I just disapprove of any action by you by saying those words?

You just told me that you disapprove of my doing something, in general, just because I can but you don't think I should since your principle says so.

No. I stated a principle.

No. You told me that just because I can do something that doesn't mean I should.

A principle that is not tied to any specific action or event.

Incorrect. By using the word "something" instead of a specific it made the statement a general statement that still means... "just because you can doesn't mean I think you should."

You're still attaching a context I wasn't using.

Because the word "you" is used within the statement the judgmental context is contained within the statement itself since the meaning of the statement is a judgment of what I should not do according to your principle.

And for the umpteenth time, I wasn't the one who first posted those words. All I said was that the principle itself is valid and logical, which it is.

The principle itself is valid and logical if you, as an individual, accept that logic and wish to apply it to your life. But when you direct that statement to me, (or anyone) even in general terms, then you are expecting the validity and logic that you accept to also apply to me/them. Only I don't accept either the logic or the validity and therefor reject the principle entirely.

And we've since been expending seemingly endless time arguing because you and Blue keep trying to attach meanings to my remarks that I never stated, implied or intended, despite the fact that I've told you that over and over again.

Words have meaning... words strung together contain meanings. The statement "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." whether a specific action is mentioned or not carries the meaning of judgement that there are things people should not do even if they can. Thing is... who is passing judgement on whom? If you say it to yourself... fine. If you say it to me... not so fine.

I already said the cop had a motive, and a context I wasn't using. I've said that repeatedly. If the cop had said "A place for everything, everything in its place.", and I had said it was a sound, logical principle, would we still be arguing about that 51 posts later too?

If the cop was referring to open carry when he made that statement to the open carrier then it would not have been used as a principle but would have been used to denote that, in the cop's opinion, the park was not the place for open carry. And yes, we would still be having this discussion.

Then it will have to remain contentious, because people voice principles to each other every day. You've voiced the principles of individual rights and freedom repeatedly in this thread. Should we now say you should keep those principles to yourself instead of trying to control us? Sorry, but I'll voice any principle I feel like voicing. It's not my fault if you can't understand them, or refuse to.
I try my best to explain the principles of freedom and rights. But I don't tell folks... "Just because you have freedoms and rights that doesn't mean you should exercise them."

The problem isn't that I do not understand what you are saying... the problem is that I understand what the words that you are using in the manner they are being used actually mean.
 
Almost forgot to post this. This is a happier example of similar circumstances from the video.

Link Removed

Oh Oh I gleened a beauty quote in that story.
"It doesn't matter if you agree with open carry or it makes you uncomfortable. It's the law."
Now I will manipulate it a little
"It doesn't matter if you agree with my gun ownership or if guns make you uncomfortable. It's the Constitution you have the problem with." Bloomberg!!!!
 
The statement:

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

Carries with it the personal standards of the person uttering it and is a judgmental statement.

"Just because you can doesn't mean (I think) you should."

If the cops reacted this way towards a gay couple kissing in the park by saying you are disrupting park activities than the media crush them with their might.
 
If the cops reacted this way towards a gay couple kissing in the park by saying you are disrupting park activities than the media crush them with their might.

I thought gays kissing *is* the main park activity these days?
I crack myself up!

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
 
People with speech impediments are not idiots

Just because someone has a speech impediment doesn't mean they are idiots. Winston churchill had a speech impediment but was clearly no idiot. Judging someone based solely on a speech impediment is the mark of a fool.
 

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