I agree it's probably not the right caliber for the army or all of the military for what they do but for the civilian population I say it will do the job with the proper ammo and shot placement. As for the comment about more people being shot with the 9mm than any other caliber I'd say it's probably the most carried caliber.
9mm won't protect you?
- Thread starter m444ss
- Start date
firelooker
firelooker
I can't believe that someone would say something like that. Next thing you know he'll say a .22 will stop someone better than a .45 will.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Maybe he meant a miss with a 9? Since he referenced back to a miss with a .45 is worthless compared to a well places rock...
From what I read, 9mm and 45 are equal in terms of stopping power. I think the reason is the 9mm speed makes up for the lack of bulk. Something else to consider is the difference a short barrel has on hollow points. I have read that even when picking personal defense ammo a good choice depends greatly on the bullet weight if you have a short barrel. Actually all the carry pistols I carry have around a 3 inch barrel which is short. The book “Stopping Power” says to pick light weight bullets in the caliber you pick. If the higher grained bullets are picked there is likely to be problems with expansion when using short barrel pistols. They list 115 grains +P for 9mm and 185 grains +P for 45 caliber as real good weights to pick.
Redneck1623
New member
Quicker follow up shots
I agree with some of what is said, but I can usually put a group of 3 or 4 9mm out quicker than with my 45 simply because of the lighter recoil. Less recoil = quicker recovery = more shots in the same amount of time.
I agree with some of what is said, but I can usually put a group of 3 or 4 9mm out quicker than with my 45 simply because of the lighter recoil. Less recoil = quicker recovery = more shots in the same amount of time.
rifleshooter474
New member
There has been vast improvements in 9mm Ammo. since when it was tested against other larger Ammo.s The 9mm Kurt (.380) Ammo. Mfg. by Hornady it's their Critical Defense is light years ahead of the old standard 9mm.
People many times need a smaller carry handgun, and the small 9mm with the new types of Ammo. fill this need without fear of not having the stopping power needed.
People many times need a smaller carry handgun, and the small 9mm with the new types of Ammo. fill this need without fear of not having the stopping power needed.
Grognard Gunny
New member
Confucious say: "One in eye bettah than three in thigh. Size not matter, Grasshopper. Accuracy."
Just sayin'.
GG
Just sayin'.
GG
Guy Masterson
New member
Ceremonial Etiquete and Knockdown Power
Now that Confucius has been brought into the debate we must review our history of philosophy to determine a most true solution to this riddle concerning the 9...
We harken back to the meeting with Lao Tsu, contemporary & author of The Right Use of The Way of Life...
Confucius in his heyday went to consult Lao Tsu on a point involving correct ceremonial etiquette which in Chinese philosophy ties in to the pursuit of illumination by connecting the individuated soul to the universe.
Lao Tsu did not believe in ceremonial etiquette. He was a radical teacher in many ways for the times. Confucius came away from the meeting very impressed...When he arrived back to his disciples, he told them, "Today I have met a dragon!"
Therefore, how do we asses the 9?
Consider when Jesus met the centurion who asked him to heal his servant who was ill. The respect and quality of devotion that this Roman military leader displayed led Christ to admit that he had not found such great faith amongst the Hebrews.
Now as we work to apply wisdom to choice of caliber for self-defense we must contemplate many sources, events & spiritual powers.
The National Rifle Association gives us several firm guidelines: Shoot the largest caliber you can control. Use defensive accuracy that spans the range of a standard piece of typing paper - shooting for center-mass, rather than trying to aim for a pin-point, and use multiple shots preferably in double tap rhythm until the threat is stopped.
True defensive wisdom brings us to the balance of speed, accuracy & stopping power. It is important not to depend on one well-placed shot, but to shoot controlled pairs with a caliber that you can perform nice follow-up with until the assailant is on the ground. When we train this way, 9mm attains to its greatness as a self-defense cartridge. The powerful, angry, muscled-up from prison weightlifting, on methamphetamine criminal attacker may require 5 or so 9mm rounds where one or two 45 acp's will suffice. This is fine, just understand the balance of speed, accuracy & stopping power.
Now that Confucius has been brought into the debate we must review our history of philosophy to determine a most true solution to this riddle concerning the 9...
We harken back to the meeting with Lao Tsu, contemporary & author of The Right Use of The Way of Life...
Confucius in his heyday went to consult Lao Tsu on a point involving correct ceremonial etiquette which in Chinese philosophy ties in to the pursuit of illumination by connecting the individuated soul to the universe.
Lao Tsu did not believe in ceremonial etiquette. He was a radical teacher in many ways for the times. Confucius came away from the meeting very impressed...When he arrived back to his disciples, he told them, "Today I have met a dragon!"
Therefore, how do we asses the 9?
Consider when Jesus met the centurion who asked him to heal his servant who was ill. The respect and quality of devotion that this Roman military leader displayed led Christ to admit that he had not found such great faith amongst the Hebrews.
Now as we work to apply wisdom to choice of caliber for self-defense we must contemplate many sources, events & spiritual powers.
The National Rifle Association gives us several firm guidelines: Shoot the largest caliber you can control. Use defensive accuracy that spans the range of a standard piece of typing paper - shooting for center-mass, rather than trying to aim for a pin-point, and use multiple shots preferably in double tap rhythm until the threat is stopped.
True defensive wisdom brings us to the balance of speed, accuracy & stopping power. It is important not to depend on one well-placed shot, but to shoot controlled pairs with a caliber that you can perform nice follow-up with until the assailant is on the ground. When we train this way, 9mm attains to its greatness as a self-defense cartridge. The powerful, angry, muscled-up from prison weightlifting, on methamphetamine criminal attacker may require 5 or so 9mm rounds where one or two 45 acp's will suffice. This is fine, just understand the balance of speed, accuracy & stopping power.
firelooker
firelooker
Very interesting way to get to your point. I like Front Sights motto "Any gun will do if you will do".
jeffelliott
New member
I used to have a strong prejudice against the 9mm until I had surgery on my wrist removing a ganglian cyst. I used to always shoot the .40 Glock 23. After I healed I sold my Glock and picked up a 9mm Ruger Sr9c and haven't looked back. Some say they would prefer a .45 and/or a 9mm and leave out the .40, I happen to agree. The .40 is a great round, but it has caused alot of damage to me.
Glad you found a replacement. To me, my PX4 .40's recoil is about the same as my 92's.
What exactly is a ganglian cyst and did you get it from shooting?
jeffelliott
New member
It is a cyst that grows quickly in the hand and wrist area. I works my hands, but the glock angle contributed to it. The cyst grew on my pulse point on my right wrist, covering the artery. You couldn't take my pulse there. I had to go without carrying or shooting for a year and a half. I'm back in the game now, just a little more wiser about my caliber selection. Best advice, if there is a place were one can go and try out a handgun, then go. It is better to try out the gun by fit and shot, than just fit. And don't always trust what the salesperson says, for they usually are working on commission.
firelooker
firelooker
What is it about the .40 that caused you so much trouble? I've never shot one so don't know too much about them.
jeffelliott
New member
It actually has a harder snap than a .45acp. but like I said try out what best suits you. Not the advise nor word of others. The .40sw hasn't been around for a long time. It happens to be a chopped down 10mm round, which the 10 had a tendency to crack gun frames. .40=10mm according to my calipers. S&W developed .40 in the late 80s early 90s they took the 10mm round and shortened it. S&W developed the .40 with nothing to load it into. Glock took the .40, and the rest was history. The .40 is the most widely used caliber in U.S law enforcement, but it has bad snap.
.40sw=10mm=.41magnum
.40sw=10mm=.41magnum
firelooker
firelooker
Interesting! Anyway to reduce that "snap"? I shoot a ruger p345 so I don't get any snap just solid recoil. Same for my Taurus tracker in 44 mag, it's ported to reduce recoil still 25 rds is enough at at one sitting to make you tired.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
12ga 1.25oz slugs beats all. :biggrin: As for the 9mm vs .45 debate, meth heads have been shot any number of times by 9mm and not gone down until 18 or more rounds have been fired. There never has been that kind of article on a .45. And the WV State Police are getting S&W 4566 handguns. If you check LAE groups, all major groups that involve hostage or Special Response teams and military SOP all have .45 in their use. Not that I want to get hit by any round but I carry a full size 1911 .45 all day with either 185 gr FTP or 230 gr +P JHP rounds. A gun isn't supposed to be comfortable, it is to give comfort when needed. Any gun available is better than none at all. Just because the 9mm rounds have been improved does not mean that the other sizes haven't also. Check Hornady Critical Defense for other than bone stock ammo results. Or Federal, or Winchester for that fact. All ammo has improved over the years.
