Firing Squad...


Anthony_I_Am

New member
I was reading the article about the Utah execution this evening. The firing squad had 30 caliber rifles, one loaded with a blank. My question is wouldn't this be obvious to an experienced shooter? I fired both live rounds and blanks in the military and it was pretty obvious to me that the blanks didn't have the same sound or the recoil that a live round does.

Wouldn't the guy who was firing the blank know?










.
 

It's just a theory, but I'm hypothesizing that the media reported that one rifle was loaded with a blank for the sake of the general public.

From what I understand, the firing squad was composed of off-duty LEO who VOLUNTEERED for the detail. They actually WANTED to be one of the squad members firing a live round. Knowing what the scumbag did, I'd have to say that I don't blame them.



gf
 
Just a guess, but I would have to say it would depend on how in the moment they were. If hopped up on adrenalin, it is entirely possible they may not be aware if they were the one with the blank or not. Scumbag or not, you are still the one potentially taking the life.
 
Should've been on live CCTV in every cell block in the country.
 
It's just a theory, but I'm hypothesizing that the media reported that one rifle was loaded with a blank for the sake of the general public.

From what I understand, the firing squad was composed of off-duty LEO who VOLUNTEERED for the detail. They actually WANTED to be one of the squad members firing a live round. Knowing what the scumbag did, I'd have to say that I don't blame them.



gf

I'd dust his ass for free. Just buy me a big mac and some ammo is all I ask.:laugh:
 
I cant help but wonder if that was mis reported. Military firing squads consist of 5 people & 4 of them have blanks.
All soldiers are trained to hit a 1 inch red box that is placed over the convicted's heart every time.

The notion is that noone will know whom will be the lucky one to fire the shot.

While I have never had the honor to serve on a firing squad they take their people from infantry battalions which I did have the honor of serving in so the "process" is often discussed.

I would think civilian firing squads would have the same basic construct.
 
Just a guess, but I would have to say it would depend on how in the moment they were. If hopped up on adrenalin, it is entirely possible they may not be aware if they were the one with the blank or not. Scumbag or not, you are still the one potentially taking the life.

Its all a matter of personal perspective. I tend to view these kind of things as if my family were the victim. After all, one of them could have been killed by the SOB as anybody elses family members were. The guy forfeited his right to live by doing what he did JUST because he felt like it. When he crossed that line he made his choice. Just my opinions, not trying to slam yours.
 
Its all a matter of personal perspective. I tend to view these kind of things as if my family were the victim. After all, one of them could have been killed by the SOB as anybody elses family members were. The guy forfeited his right to live by doing what he did JUST because he felt like it. When he crossed that line he made his choice. Just my opinions, not trying to slam yours.

That is a valid point, and that could be the rational that they use. And I do agree he did forfeited his right when he was convicted, and really like you said when he did his murders. My point was more to the point of, what may be going through the firing squad member's mind when he/she is getting ready to pull the trigger.
 
I cant help but wonder if that was mis reported. Military firing squads consist of 5 people & 4 of them have blanks.
All soldiers are trained to hit a 1 inch red box that is placed over the convicted's heart every time.

The notion is that noone will know whom will be the lucky one to fire the shot.

While I have never had the honor to serve on a firing squad they take their people from infantry battalions which I did have the honor of serving in so the "process" is often discussed.

I would think civilian firing squads would have the same basic construct.

Pure Baloney!

An execution party was composed of eight men and at least five had live ammo!

Here is an excerpt from the US Army execution procedure manual from 1947.

***

"..SECTION II
EXECUTION BY MUSKETRY
13. Officer Charged with Execution
The officer charged with the execution will command the escort
and make the necessary arrangements for the conduct of the exe-
cution. He will-
a. Instruct and rehearse the escort and the execution party in
-
their duties, insuring that all members of the execution party are qualified in the weapon to be used.
b.
Arrange for the receipt of the prisoner by the prisoner guard.
c.
Arrange for an execution party of eight men and one sergeant.
d.
Arrange for a chaplain to accompany the prisoner.
e.
Arrange for the presence of a medical officer at the scene of the execution.
f.
Cause a post with proper rings placed therein for securing the prisoner in an upright position .to be erected at the place of execution.
g.
Cause eight rifles to be loaded in his presence. Not more than three nor less than one will be loaded with blank ammunition. He will place the rifles at random in the rack provided for that purpose.
h.
Provide a black hood to cover the head of the prisoner.
i.
Provide a 4-inch round target, white or black as appropriate ; ablack target will be used when light colored clothing is worn.
j.
Cause the prisoner's arms to be secured either behind his back or in front at the waist (fig. I),before or immediately after his receipt by the prisoner guard.
k.
Arrange for an ambulance or other conveyance with sufficient personnel to be in attendance upon the execution to receive and care for the body. In the event a contract undertaker is used by the quartermaster, his services may be substituted. See AR
30-1820.
1. Provide straps to secure the prisoner to the post at waist and ankles. (See par. 29b.)..."
 
Pure Baloney!

An execution party was composed of eight men and at least five had live ammo!

Here is an excerpt from the US Army execution procedure manual from 1947.

As I said I was never a member of a firing squad & my statements are from GI's shooting the shit 20+ years ago. Since you didnt state any personal knowledge or experience I assumed you are nothing more than Google warrior & researched it myself.

I found the reference you site, you will note at the top of it it states "S/S by AR-633-15, 7 Apr 59". For the uninitiated that means "Superseded by Army Regulation 633-15 dated 7 April 1959". In essence your quoted text is expired. For all I know it has been updated again since 1959 (the Army tends to revise their AR's TM's & FM's every 10-20yrs).

All that said it has caused me to seriously consider my recollections & I think the AR cited may be correct. I believe where I got the 5 shooters may have been from the minimum live rounds but that is irrelevant.

I do want to thank you though, your challenge caused me to dig down & it brought back some fond & some not so fond memories.

Back to the topic at hand, I found this about the execution
Ronnie Lee Gardner made such a choice after exhausting the appeal process and was executed by five anonymous officers on June 18, 2010. Gardner was sentenced to death in 1985 for the shooting of Michael Burdell, a defense attorney, during a botched escape attempt on April 2, 1985 which also injured court bailiff George "Nick" Kirk. Gardner, in court on charges stemming from the 1984 robbery and shooting death of Melvyn John Otterstrom, used a gun that had been smuggled into the old Salt Lake County courthouse by his girlfriend. Gardner chose firing squad because he believed it is swifter and more humane and less likely to become botched than lethal injection.
 
Touche Doc, you did your research.

I have had the honor of bringing down a feral dog that maimed a little boy & would consider it an honor to bring down a feral human that would do likewise (in accordance with law).
Not everyone has the spine for it though.

Thank you for this exchange, it has been fun :biggrin:
 
In the case of Gardener there was a photo of the backstop after the execution there were 4 bullet holes in it.

From 1865 to present the U.S. Army has executed exactly one soldier by firing squad. Edward Donald Slovik was executed on January 31 1945 for desertion.

From the book “The Execution of Private Slovik” By William Bradford Huie

This one blank business, devised a century or so ago to leave a reasonable doubt in the mind of every rifleman as to whether or not he had actually participated in the killing, has been made meaningless by technical development. The M1, being a high powered rifle not a musket, kicks like a mule when a live round is fired off hand ; but there is almost no recoil from a blank. Moreover, the M1 automatically ejects the shell of the live round, while it will not eject the shell of a blank. So there was little question among the firing squad as to who drew the blank.

Final note I question whether someone who feels it’s an “honor” to kill anything should be allowed to operate a firearm w/out strict adult supervision
 

Final note I question whether someone who feels it’s an “honor” to kill anything should be allowed to operate a firearm w/out strict adult supervision

Boy-o-boy, a brand new acct just to "get" me. Not sure if I should be flattered or concerned...

I would imagine the notions of "Duty, Honor & Sacrifice" are lost on you, that or you are a tree hugging wacko. In either case not worthy of much more than contempt.
 
Actually I joined because this topic intrigued me. I did a paper on Slovick in college. And having spent a good portion of my adult life in the Army I felt I might have some insight. Killing isn't an "honor" unless you live in a John Wayne movie. It's something you do out of necessity. You do too much chest thumping to be believable.
 

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